FSW WORLDWIDE

[Pasha1]

Not really. I switched from healthcare consulting to data science with no CS background. DA is its own thing. It's not a 'lesser' role to use to get to a DS position, although many people do treat it that way.

Most, if not all, non-trad data scientists (i.e. those without a CS background) I knew personally in the US were Industrial Engineers. DS is not well defined and as long as you have a good portfolio on github and you know how to network, getting a DS position directly isn't too hard. In fact DS is probably THE most easy field to break into without "traditional" expertise. In contrast try becoming a mechanical design engineer without a degree in mechanical engineering.

It is also possible to become a software engineer (frontend, backend, fullstack, whatever) without traditional degrees, but imo much more difficult than data science. The main reason being those roles are a lot more technical. You better know your data structures and algorithms to be able to get through interviews. Data science on the other hand is far far less technical, and if you have decent communication skills (which you should arguably have learnt from any previous job) and a good portfolio, you should be able to get data science jobs directly.

Mate, the issue isn't about how easy or hard it's to land on a DS/DA position. Neither I claim that one must have a credential in DA/DS in order to land on relevant positions. Thank your for putting forward your opinion though.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

They dont know that i am international student, there are hardly any jobs that needs doctorate ( doctorate are preferred ). Masters is sufficient

Again, how do they expect you to work a fulltime job when you're still completing your doctorate? You being an international student won't matter. Either they offered you a position after you graduate, or they expect you to drop out of your PhD program. If they don't know you;re still finishing your PhD, then you somehow managed to bamboozle them into letting you work only part time instead of fulltime.

Not entirely sure, but you're out of luck. You're going to have to bring up the fact that you're an international student at some point, because they will need that information when they onboard you as an FTE. Your options are to:
1. Hope your PR comes through next week somehow and all your problems disappear

2. Tell them you would like to continue but you want to finish your doctorate first, and hope they delay your offer. So in the meantime you either get your PR or you'll get a PGWP.

3. Tell them you're an international student, drop out of your doctorate program and hope they sponsor a closer work permit while your PR app is processed.


Regarding the PGWP, maybe you can drop out of your PhD and still be eligible for a PGWP since you did technically complete a 2 year degree in Canada. Maybe someone else can answer that here, but honestly this situation is too specific for you to base it on uninformed opinion of forum members. Maybe talk to the international student body at your university, talk to an immigration lawyer (not an immigration consultant, that isn't a real job, they're all hacks).

 

[dankboi]

Again, how do they expect you to work a fulltime job when you're still completing your doctorate? You being an international student won't matter. Either they offered you a position after you graduate, or they expect you to drop out of your PhD program. If they don't know you;re still finishing your PhD, then you somehow managed to bamboozle them into letting you work only part time instead of fulltime.

Not entirely sure, but you're out of luck. You're going to have to bring up the fact that you're an international student at some point, because they will need that information when they onboard you as an FTE. Your options are to:
1. Hope your PR comes through next week somehow and all your problems disappear

2. Tell them you would like to continue but you want to finish your doctorate first, and hope they delay your offer. So in the meantime you either get your PR or you'll get a PGWP.

3. Tell them you're an international student, drop out of your doctorate program and hope they sponsor a closer work permit while your PR app is processed.


Regarding the PGWP, maybe you can drop out of your PhD and still be eligible for a PGWP since you did technically complete a 2 year degree in Canada. Maybe someone else can answer that here, but honestly this situation is too specific for you to base it on uninformed opinion of forum members. Maybe talk to the international student body at your university, talk to an immigration lawyer (not an immigration consultant, that isn't a real job, they're all hacks).

mushyyy sup

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

Mate, the issue isn't about how easy or hard it's to land on a DS/DA position. Neither I claim that one must have a credential in DA/DS in order to land on relevant positions. Thank your for putting forward your opinion though.

Ah you want to be a snarky bitch. Okay then, I suppose I can respond in kind.

but to become one I should start from DA position.

This is false. You don't need to is all I was saying. The two roles aren't particularly related, and doing one isn't contingent on knowing how to do the other.

How can I study Master's in DA if I have no previous degree in this field?

Not all universities that offer Master's in Data Science programs have a hard requirement for Comp Sci coursework. And since you mentioned your reason for getting it was for your CRS score, I'm guessing you're not going to be shooting for UToronto. Degree mills will be far less stringent about requirements.

Your best bet may be to apply for MMA programs (Master's of management analytics), which are basically DA degrees offered through management schools. Less technical, more business oriented, and have the word "analytics" on the degree. UBC, UofT, and McGill offer them. Others do too. This will also probably easier to explain to a visa officer. "I did an MBA but I wanted to get into analytics, so I realized an MMA fit my goals better" sounds better on paper than doing an MBA and then doing an MS to buy your way into the country.

Neither I claim that one must have a credential in DA/DS in order to land on relevant positions.

You did right here:

Everybody knows that that credential is needed for getting a job interview, the rest is up to your skills.

And no it is categorically not. The fact that you think this probably means you're very very new to the field. Which is fine, but don't be convinced by your own excuses. The ONLY potential benefit is the fact that you may find it easier to network in university career fairs. But if you know how to network, this shouldn't matter. I've gotten interview calls for DS positions from Canada, and they said they can't sponsor visas right now, so I'm out of luck. Yet I got the interviews despite no DS degree, no prior DS job, and no network in Canada except the one I'm forming piece by piece on LinkedIn.


Look, I'll keep the snark aside for a second and say this: look into MMA programs if you haven't already. But also consider the fact that they're typically less than 2 years long, so you won't get the full 3 yr PGWP. Which makes it very risky because if you don't find an immediate job after graduation, your work permit will expire before you get a year of exp, and you won't be eligible for CEC. That's the main reason I decided to drop the idea of doing a DS degree in Canada.

 

[dankboi]

Ah you want to be a snarky bitch. Okay then, I suppose I can respond in kind.


This is false. You don't need to is all I was saying. The two roles aren't particularly related, and doing one isn't contingent on knowing how to do the other.


Not all universities that offer Master's in Data Science programs have a hard requirement for Comp Sci coursework. And since you mentioned your reason for getting it for your CRS score, I'm guessing you're not going to be shooting for UToronto. Degree mills will be far less stringent about requirements.

Your best bet may be to apply for MMA programs (Master's of management analytics), which are basically DA degrees offered through management schools. Less technical, more business oriented, and have the word "analytics" on the degree. UBC, UofT, and McGill offer them. Others do too. This will also probably easier to explain to a visa officer. "I did an MBA but I wanted to get into analytics, so I realized an MMA fit my goals better" sounds better on paper than doing an MBA and then doing an MS to buy your way into the country.



You did:

And no it is categorically not. The fact that you think this probably means you're very very new to the field. Which is fine, but don't be convinced by your own excuses. The ONLY potential benefit is the fact that you may find it easier to network in university career fairs. But if you know how to network, this shouldn't matter. I've gotten interview calls for DS positions from Canada, and they said they can't sponsor visas right now, so I'm out of luck. Yet I got the interviews despite no DS degree, no prior DS job, and no network in Canada except the one I'm forming piece by piece on LinkedIn.


Look, I'll keep the snark aside for a second and say look into MMA programs if you haven't already. But also consider the fact that they're typically less than 2 years long, so you won't get the full 3 yr PGWP. Which makes it very risky because if you don't find an immediate job after graduation, your work permit will expire before you get a year of exp, and you won't be eligible for CEC. That's the main reason I decided to drop the idea of doing a DS degree in Canada.

2 mins of read
Pasha's PC / Phone's POV

 

[Deepa52]

Again, how do they expect you to work a fulltime job when you're still completing your doctorate? You being an international student won't matter. Either they offered you a position after you graduate, or they expect you to drop out of your PhD program. If they don't know you;re still finishing your PhD, then you somehow managed to bamboozle them into letting you work only part time instead of fulltime.

Not entirely sure, but you're out of luck. You're going to have to bring up the fact that you're an international student at some point, because they will need that information when they onboard you as an FTE. Your options are to:
1. Hope your PR comes through next week somehow and all your problems disappear

2. Tell them you would like to continue but you want to finish your doctorate first, and hope they delay your offer. So in the meantime you either get your PR or you'll get a PGWP.

3. Tell them you're an international student, drop out of your doctorate program and hope they sponsor a closer work permit while your PR app is processed.


Regarding the PGWP, maybe you can drop out of your PhD and still be eligible for a PGWP since you did technically complete a 2 year degree in Canada. Maybe someone else can answer that here, but honestly this situation is too specific for you to base it on uninformed opinion of forum members. Maybe talk to the international student body at your university, talk to an immigration lawyer (not an immigration consultant, that isn't a real job, they're all hacks).

Thanks for your input, i am in a situation where i have done almost all the steps for doctorate, now main issues is getting few more publications, what i have seen is that publications is taking longer time then used to be as most of the journals have some specific section for COVID-related issues and again everything is delayed due to COVID related other issues, so my plan is to continue PhD as Part-time and continue with work, lets see what options i have , planning to met university immigration consultant next week to see what options i have

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

Thanks for your input, i am in a situation where i have done almost all the steps for doctorate, now main issues is getting few more publications, what i have seen is that publications is taking longer time then used to be as most of the journals have some specific section for COVID-related issues and again everything is delayed due to COVID related other issues, so my plan is to continue PhD as Part-time and continue with work, lets see what options i have , planning to met university immigration consultant next week to see what options i have

Oh I see. Good luck. I don't know if you're allowed to be a part time student. Hopefully your PR comes through soon and none of this will be an issue.

 

[dankboi]

Thanks for your input, i am in a situation where i have done almost all the steps for doctorate, now main issues is getting few more publications, what i have seen is that publications is taking longer time then used to be as most of the journals have some specific section for COVID-related issues and again everything is delayed due to COVID related other issues, so my plan is to continue PhD as Part-time and continue with work, lets see what options i have , planning to met university immigration consultant next week to see what options i have

publications is taking longer time
eshshhhhh .. pal you in canada, seems you forgetting it

everything is delayed due to COVID
* year 2050
Canada still haven't escaped it
trudo wins another minority government via snap election, continuously for the 20th time

 

[KojiGold]

It is not about upper/lower level. They do look at if there are any gaps in your educational history. As I said, the most important thing is to explain how that particular program/degree/training will make you better in your career in your home country. It can be lower level if one is considering a field change for example. I might have a PhD in physics but maybe I'm considering a higher level career in computer science and I might have found a crazy good compsci MSc programme/lab/supervisor at a Canadian university. The letter of motivation you'll write will determine in you'll be rejected a visa or not, not the level of the degree programme.

Also if you're admitted to a good school that'll also help you. So try to go to one of the bigger names if you can.

In my case, I am actually going to be offered an overseas position once I finish the degree (to handle the marketing department of our Europe based subsidary - which is not yet established, that is the plan of the employer). We are going to use our subsidary to help us deal with out potential foriegn clients So in this case, a diploma in international business or international marketing from a college might work for me?
The fact is that once you own a degree - no matter a diploma, master, etc. - from a 1st world country (and specficially English speaking countries) you will have an automatic boost in your position within the industry and in the eyes of not only your employer, but also the clients that your company are going to work with. For instance, my employer is saying that when he introduces me to our clients, he would like to mention that Mr.XYZ earned his degree from Canada, to impress the other party This is one of the very main reasons behind him wishing to sponsor me. However I am not sure whether if I tell this truth exactly to the visa officer, does it gonna work or not! Shall I just go with the plain (and perhaps wierd) truth or put in some politics in what I am going to say?

 

[dankboi]

In my case, I am actually going to be offered an overseas position once I finish the degree (to handle the marketing department of our Europe based subsidary - which is not yet established, that is the plan of the employer). We are going to use our subsidary to help us deal with out potential foriegn clients So in this case, a diploma in international business or international marketing from a college might work for me?
The fact is that once you own a degree - no matter a diploma, master, etc. - from a 1st world country (and specficially English speaking countries) you will have an automatic boost in your position within the industry and in the eyes of not only your employer, but also the clients that your company are going to work with. For instance, my employer is saying that when he introduces me to our clients, he would like to mention that Mr.XYZ earned his degree from Canada, to impress the other party This is one of the very main reasons behind him wishing to sponsor me. However I am not sure whether if I tell this truth exactly to the visa officer, does it gonna work or not! Shall I just go with the plain (and perhaps wierd) truth or put in some politics in what I am going to say?

boss, you want to get the visa approved isn't it.
truth is we manipulate stuffs / life to convince the VO so they approve the Visa. anything is possible

 

[KojiGold]

boss, you want to get the visa approved isn't it.
truth is we manipulate stuffs / life to convince the VO so they approve the Visa. anything is possible

I mean bro my employer gonna spend and I don't want to waste his money. If you guys believe there is no chance for visa, I'll just forget it. I don't know how shall I twist the facts to make the visa officer believe that I am not intending to U-Turn the immigration through a study visa, as I guess my case is somehow crystal clear...Seems like sometimes those who tell the truth have to sacrifice more ))

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

In my case, I am actually going to be offered an overseas position once I finish the degree (to handle the marketing department of our Europe based subsidary - which is not yet established, that is the plan of the employer). We are going to use our subsidary to help us deal with out potential foriegn clients So in this case, a diploma in international business or international marketing from a college might work for me?
The fact is that once you own a degree - no matter a diploma, master, etc. - from a 1st world country (and specficially English speaking countries) you will have an automatic boost in your position within the industry and in the eyes of not only your employer, but also the clients that your company are going to work with. For instance, my employer is saying that when he introduces me to our clients, he would like to mention that Mr.XYZ earned his degree from Canada, to impress the other party This is one of the very main reasons behind him wishing to sponsor me. However I am not sure whether if I tell this truth exactly to the visa officer, does it gonna work or not! Shall I just go with the plain (and perhaps wierd) truth or put in some politics in what I am going to say?

If that's the case, just go for a Lambton diploma. It's cheap and you won't even have to try
Consult with @dankboi on how to protect from chinook

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Ah you want to be a snarky bitch. Okay then, I suppose I can respond in kind.


This is false. You don't need to is all I was saying. The two roles aren't particularly related, and doing one isn't contingent on knowing how to do the other.


Not all universities that offer Master's in Data Science programs have a hard requirement for Comp Sci coursework. And since you mentioned your reason for getting it was for your CRS score, I'm guessing you're not going to be shooting for UToronto. Degree mills will be far less stringent about requirements.

Your best bet may be to apply for MMA programs (Master's of management analytics), which are basically DA degrees offered through management schools. Less technical, more business oriented, and have the word "analytics" on the degree. UBC, UofT, and McGill offer them. Others do too. This will also probably easier to explain to a visa officer. "I did an MBA but I wanted to get into analytics, so I realized an MMA fit my goals better" sounds better on paper than doing an MBA and then doing an MS to buy your way into the country.



You did right here:

And no it is categorically not. The fact that you think this probably means you're very very new to the field. Which is fine, but don't be convinced by your own excuses. The ONLY potential benefit is the fact that you may find it easier to network in university career fairs. But if you know how to network, this shouldn't matter. I've gotten interview calls for DS positions from Canada, and they said they can't sponsor visas right now, so I'm out of luck. Yet I got the interviews despite no DS degree, no prior DS job, and no network in Canada except the one I'm forming piece by piece on LinkedIn.


Look, I'll keep the snark aside for a second and say this: look into MMA programs if you haven't already. But also consider the fact that they're typically less than 2 years long, so you won't get the full 3 yr PGWP. Which makes it very risky because if you don't find an immediate job after graduation, your work permit will expire before you get a year of exp, and you won't be eligible for CEC. That's the main reason I decided to drop the idea of doing a DS degree in Canada.

This was a hilarious read

 

[dankboi]

If that's the case, just go for a Lambton diploma. It's cheap and you won't even have to try
Consult with @dankboi on how to protect from chinook

i think koji will be non sds and the koji's mid east country Visa office won't be under chinook's control.
Also the human VO ain't gonna approve his SP for lmabda

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

This was a hilarious read

idk why they decided to get snarky. I shouldn't stoop to their level though, my bad.