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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

novascotia27

Hero Member
Jan 4, 2016
491
280
Hi,

I applied for grant of citizenship Back in October 2017
started processing December 2017
Finger prints in November 2019
Brampton resident
file in IRCC Mississauga
back home country Pakistan

after that nothing

called to MP couple of times but no help they say its in process
Hired top Lawyers in Tornoto but they also say everything is good ,all checks passed but its just matter of time .

Atip notes say evrything good file may continue to process .

But its taking forever now i know its delayed some because of Covid 19 but more then 3 years in process.


Anyone can help in this or any ideas what can be done at this point ??

Thank you so much
You can pursue a writ of mandamus through your lawyer. Though, it doesn’t guarantee anything and you have to make sure your case qualifies for the order.

Sorry but may I ask you whether you know or suspect the reason why your application is taking this long ? Most apps are processed within 12-18 mark but yours is significantly higher than the average.
 

Fallen_Warrior

Hero Member
May 16, 2013
287
122
You can pursue a writ of mandamus through your lawyer. Though, it doesn’t guarantee anything and you have to make sure your case qualifies for the order.

Sorry but may I ask you whether you know or suspect the reason why your application is taking this long ? Most apps are processed within 12-18 mark but yours is significantly higher than the average.
I am Feb 2018 and still waiting on the test invite. All checks cleared. He is not alone.
 

novascotia27

Hero Member
Jan 4, 2016
491
280
I am currently in FC just to figure out answer to the very same question. lol
I just read the following and I quote:

“Case Management Branch provides direction, support, and decision-making with regards to complex, high-profile, sensitive and/or contentious immigration, citizenship and passport cases. Also provides direction and support for certain litigation files.”

Judging by this, you must be someone considered to fall under one of these categories.. do you think any of these is applicable to you?
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
Received an update for this one. They want more time to get all the records I asked for.
I've got an update on this. An ATIP officer emailed me back telling me there was a confusion for items 1 and 2.



I clarified what was being requested in items 1 and 2.



She e-mailed me back. Hopefully, there are no further confusions :) .
Received an update for this one. They want more time to get all the records I asked for.
I've asked for an update on the ATIP request because the extension they requested is almost over. I emailed them for an update.

Hello,

Could you please provide an update on this request? The extended time requested is almost over.

Thanks.
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
I've got an update on this. An ATIP officer emailed me back telling me there was a confusion for items 1 and 2.



I clarified what was being requested in items 1 and 2.



She e-mailed me back. Hopefully, there are no further confusions :) .
Received an update for this one. They want more time to get all the records I asked for.
I've asked for an update on the ATIP request because the extension they requested is almost over. I emailed them for an update.
I received a response to my status inquiry.

Hello Rajkamal,

We are in the final approval stage of your request, and should be completed by May 3rd. I will follow up if there are any changes.

Thank you,
I expect that mammoth of a file containing the information that I requested for be sent to me on or before May 3rd. A few people have volunteered to review and summarize the details in the file. Depending on the file size, I might request a few more volunteers. So far, I have 5 people, including me.

Fingers crossed and I can't wait to see what IRCC has been doing to improve the situation we are in.
 
Last edited:

skykhan

Newbie
Mar 4, 2021
8
0
You can pursue a writ of mandamus through your lawyer. Though, it doesn’t guarantee anything and you have to make sure your case qualifies for the order.

Sorry but may I ask you whether you know or suspect the reason why your application is taking this long ? Most apps are processed within 12-18 mark but yours is significantly higher than the average.
Its ok i have no idea nothing looks suspicious to me as never did anything wrong .
They also say evry background check is done just they are waiting for to put in test quee.
But they are saying this since March 2020.
Is there any other way before MANDAMUS as its expensive i think ?
Thank you guys for help
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
I received a response to my status inquiry.



I expect that mammoth of a file containing the information that I requested for be sent to me on or before May 3rd. A few people have volunteered to review and summarize the details in the file. Depending on the file size, I might request a few more volunteers. So far, I have 5 people, including me.

Fingers crossed and I can't wait to see what IRCC has been doing to improve the situation we are in.
Guys, I've finally received the corporate records from IRCC! I haven't gone through the file completely but looks like there is data there that could be useful.

As a reminder, here's the post detailing the information that I requested from IRCC.



Please find the document below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uLTJFxlUwXj3YHpXrcvMITBf9YbLbF6s/view?usp=sharing

I have 5 volunteers currently, including me. There are 353 pages in this document. I'd like a few more volunteers so that we can summarize this quickly.

If you'd like to volunteer to summarize the document, please leave a response to this post tagging me OR DM me.

 

Fallen_Warrior

Hero Member
May 16, 2013
287
122
Guys, I've finally received the corporate records from IRCC! I haven't gone through the file completely but looks like there is data there that could be useful.

As a reminder, here's the post detailing the information that I requested from IRCC.



Please find the document below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uLTJFxlUwXj3YHpXrcvMITBf9YbLbF6s/view?usp=sharing

I have 5 volunteers currently, including me. There are 353 pages in this document. I'd like a few more volunteers so that we can summarize this quickly.

If you'd like to volunteer to summarize the document, please leave a response to this post tagging me OR DM me.
Great job. It's a trove of information!
 

tazbed

Full Member
May 4, 2021
32
14
"Generally speaking, human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean. This is a fact that can be seen in everyday life."​

While this may accurately depict your family, your friends, and others who you associate with, the world you have lived in, and it seems you are confessing, yourself as well, it does NOT accurately describe, no where near close, the vast majority of people I have shared space and time with over the course of . . . well I became an adult more than half a century ago.

Which is not to minimize let alone ignore the number of people who are bad, selfish, or mean, rather more than necessary unfortunately. So yes, there are too many. But in my experience those who are good, kind, helpful, generous, caring, compassionate, and who try to have a positive impact, way outnumber the bad apples.

Here, for example, in this forum. Contrary to what you describe. There are many forum participants who make an effort to help. To provide accurate information and some analysis which will, hopefully, help those with questions better understand the process, make better decisions for themselves, and overall better navigate their way through the system. Sometimes this can be frank. And illuminate negative risks and overt downsides. Like emphasizing the importance of waiting to apply with a good margin over the minimum presence. Which is not to disparage anyone. Which is not to reject what technically meets the requirements. It is to highlight practical risks and how to reduce those risks.

That said, your description of our "nature," as "bad," is largely beside the point and seems to be a gratuitous slam aimed at those you are addressing. Which seems an odd approach but if that is how you see things, so it goes.

Beyond that, however, I take exception with your prejudgment and disparaging of those who will disagree with the proposition that without strident activism IRCC will fail to take reasonable steps toward meeting its statutory mandate to process grant citizenship applications. I think you are wrong about this. Very wrong. You certainly have a right to advocate your view. No matter how much in error it is. And this is not to discourage others from encouraging IRCC to be more zealous and diligent about getting the grant citizenship application process moving again.

BUT I am very confident that even if there is little or no pressure, the Canadian government will be pursuing efforts to resume all aspects of grant citizenship application processing.

AND I think this is IMPORTANT because most of those with applications pending deserve to be reassured that the Canadian government will NOT forget them, will NOT unreasonably ignore their applications, but rather even if citizenship applicants do nothing to pressure the government, the government will take reasonable steps to get application processing back in gear and deal with applications for a grant of citizenship. Yes, it will take longer now. It appears that it could be quite a bit longer.

HOWEVER, there is NO NEED to WORRY. NO need to engage in pressure tactics. It is going to take awhile, but IRCC will get it done.

You seem to have thoughtfully composed your views, so despite the ad hominem slurs you aimed at those who would disagree with you, and the fact that you are wrong about the need for activism, it does not appear your motive is fear-mongering. Just to be clear, nonetheless, as important as *democratic* values are, Canada is also very much a rule-of-law country. More so than many other countries which claim to be rule-of-law countries. So, again to be clear, there is NO need to fear that the Canadian government will not reasonably proceed with the grant citizenship process. So, to advocate proactive engagement to encourage the Canadian government be more zealous and diligent, sure, that is OK, not really needed but OK. But it is NOT OK to spread fear and cause unnecessary anxiety.
A little late to the game but I felt compelled to address your post. Although this is veering to the psychological realm of are people inherently "good" or "bad", those in question are not just friends, relatives, colleagues, etc.; we're looking at the human population as a whole. And though Canadians especially are known for their positive behavior and attitude, without a doubt, the majority of people will take advantage of their environment if given the chance. This psychological egoism is an inherent trait, especially in today's world; people today, more than ever, are motivated by self-interest. Given that theory, it is not to say that people are "bad", per se, but rather, if given the opportunity, they will do what benefits them. In this scenario, if everything that is standing between an individual who has waited for god knows how long to get their citizenship is this test (where they somehow find a way to ensure that they pass it), most likely they won't risk the process by failing and having to wait again to retake it or follow other procedures - which will take, again, god knows how long. I personally think that @piotrqc has a point. I've known people who have waited over two decades only to be denied at the end of the process. This idea of having a "fair and timely trial" is being reduced to just a "trial", if that. I have personally been waiting six years. Just because the majority of cases are processed and approved does not mean that the system is not in need of major streamlining measures. Even if applications are refused, even if at the end of this arbitrarily-timed process, applications are accepted and finalized, by the looks of it now, everyone who has started this process is being held hostage with no updates, no clear timeline, and no real information about progression. Of course the Canadian government will proceed with granting citizenship, it is an invaluable service, but that was not the point being made. The idea is that there needs to be a major change in how this entity operates. There have been changes to the sponsorship applications recently and it cut down the processing time and gave clear updates throughout - why can't that be implemented in the citizenship application process? The point of protesting is to bring to light the issues and to show officials how many people are affected and how the current process is impacting their lives. This is a democratic government and protesting is a way to encourage development, not instill fear and anxiety. That said, Canada being a rule-of-law nation does not negate that the law is evolving and adaptable to the needs of its taxpayers; those who ultimately make the law. Anyway, my two cents.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
And though Canadians especially are known for their positive behavior and attitude, without a doubt, the majority of people will take advantage of their environment if given the chance. This psychological egoism is an inherent trait, especially in today's world; people today, more than ever, are motivated by self-interest.
It is not just our choice of words, but the subjects we elect to give attention, that reveal much about what the underlying agenda is.

Nearly a century ago the naturalist and philosopher Joseph Wood Krutch addressed what he called the "paradox of humanism" in a chapter of his book titled The Modern Temper. Third time through that work I am still unsure to what extent I agreed with Krutch's message. Indeed, as much as that book stimulates my thinking, expands my understanding, I nonetheless remain uncertain in regards to its conclusions and overriding objective. Nonetheless, he addresses and illuminates, far more and better than I, the conflict between social virtue and individualistic self-interest.

That said and noted, various ethical systems, including those rooted in religion, recognize the duality of what many describe as the "will," and of course social and legal institutions are inherently structured to accommodate the manner in which real people live and act, recognizing that often their individual self-interest depends on what is generally good for society, while at other times social and legal rules and self-interest clash rather dramatically, and how people actually act derives from a complex convergence of human nature and influences.

But that is NOT what the discussion you quote was about. I challenged the proposition that "human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean." But that was not in the abstract. That was in the particular context in which it was asserted here.

No special expertise in psychology necessary to grasp where that was coming from and who it was aimed at. The intended offense readily recognized.

A lot of people participate in this forum trying to help others. More than a few have been derisively slandered in this particular topic. An abstract, esoteric examination of what motivates people generally is besides the point.

I have never encountered a bureaucracy that was not in need of improvement. That does not excuse blatant failures to provide the services the bureaucracy is mandated to perform. That does not excuse failures that cause injustice. But neither does that warrant, so to say, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The hurdles currently faced in the effort to resume reasonable processing of citizenship applications are not about people being inherently "bad," or "selfish," or "mean." There was no doubt that offense was intended. No crystal ball necessary to see what is mean-spirited.

The road back to normalcy has been longer and more difficult than most anticipated. We could be a ways off still. We will get there. The Canadian government will get there. In the meantime, as I have oft reiterated, I agree with and encourage reasonable efforts to encourage IRCC to make the adjustments and accommodations necessary to improve the quality and efficacy of citizenship application processing. More could be done, and should be done.

Nonetheless, there remains, as before, no reason to apprehend the Canadian government is going to wholesale reject pending citizenship applications. To the extent promoting fear of that underlies a call-to-arms, so to say, it is, to put it more politely than it deserves, malarkey.
 

prash42

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
291
176
The crux of the matter is the IRCC is doing a rather poor job of adapting to COVID. All the emotion on this thread and elsewhere on these forums is a reflection of that poor job. If this were the private sector, heads would roll.

It is not just our choice of words, but the subjects we elect to give attention, that reveal much about what the underlying agenda is.

Nearly a century ago the naturalist and philosopher Joseph Wood Krutch addressed what he called the "paradox of humanism" in a chapter of his book titled The Modern Temper. Third time through that work I am still unsure to what extent I agreed with Krutch's message. Indeed, as much as that book stimulates my thinking, expands my understanding, I nonetheless remain uncertain in regards to its conclusions and overriding objective. Nonetheless, he addresses and illuminates, far more and better than I, the conflict between social virtue and individualistic self-interest.

That said and noted, various ethical systems, including those rooted in religion, recognize the duality of what many describe as the "will," and of course social and legal institutions are inherently structured to accommodate the manner in which real people live and act, recognizing that often their individual self-interest depends on what is generally good for society, while at other times social and legal rules and self-interest clash rather dramatically, and how people actually act derives from a complex convergence of human nature and influences.

But that is NOT what the discussion you quote was about. I challenged the proposition that "human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean." But that was not in the abstract. That was in the particular context in which it was asserted here.

No special expertise in psychology necessary to grasp where that was coming from and who it was aimed at. The intended offense readily recognized.

A lot of people participate in this forum trying to help others. More than a few have been derisively slandered in this particular topic. An abstract, esoteric examination of what motivates people generally is besides the point.

I have never encountered a bureaucracy that was not in need of improvement. That does not excuse blatant failures to provide the services the bureaucracy is mandated to perform. That does not excuse failures that cause injustice. But neither does that warrant, so to say, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The hurdles currently faced in the effort to resume reasonable processing of citizenship applications are not about people being inherently "bad," or "selfish," or "mean." There was no doubt that offense was intended. No crystal ball necessary to see what is mean-spirited.

The road back to normalcy has been longer and more difficult than most anticipated. We could be a ways off still. We will get there. The Canadian government will get there. In the meantime, as I have oft reiterated, I agree with and encourage reasonable efforts to encourage IRCC to make the adjustments and accommodations necessary to improve the quality and efficacy of citizenship application processing. More could be done, and should be done.

Nonetheless, there remains, as before, no reason to apprehend the Canadian government is going to wholesale reject pending citizenship applications. To the extent promoting fear of that underlies a call-to-arms, so to say, it is, to put it more politely than it deserves, malarkey.
 

canvisa13

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2019
504
200
Guys, I've finally received the corporate records from IRCC! I haven't gone through the file completely but looks like there is data there that could be useful.

As a reminder, here's the post detailing the information that I requested from IRCC.



Please find the document below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uLTJFxlUwXj3YHpXrcvMITBf9YbLbF6s/view?usp=sharing

I have 5 volunteers currently, including me. There are 353 pages in this document. I'd like a few more volunteers so that we can summarize this quickly.

If you'd like to volunteer to summarize the document, please leave a response to this post tagging me OR DM me.
So around 300K pending by Dec 31st 2020, and the 85K number they are using in media is a lie. Even if they ramp up to 15K/Month, then it would take 20 months to clear up the backlog. Meanwhile 2021/2022 backlog will build up. Such a crazy situation we are in. So 2 years processing time will be a norm for half-a decade I guess, unless they make some magic. :)
 
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number411

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403
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