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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

omarnabsws

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@dpenabill i don’t get why you’re so bothered with people trying to organize to achieve something of their own interest? If you don’t like the idea then don’t push for anything, relax, you clearly have the luxury to! Instead of writing these long threads, a waste of energy really.

just catching up with this thread and honestly, it shows who everyone will be voting for when they get their citizenship lol.

those with blind trust of the system, who do not push back against authority, often vote conservative while those who push for direct action tend to vote progressive, to each his own of course but just an observation.

Also, this defeatist attitude that some show here like “a citizenship is a privilege” and “we should be grateful” is both sad and funny.
You think Canada brought you here because it has pitty for you? You are here because Canada NEEDS you. They need your skill, your taxes, even your mere presence for the sake of population growth.


Those “lazy” federal workers are able to pressure their employer because of their union. any set of people with a common interest should do the same, including us.

@piotrqc i have recently applied for citizenship so i’m not expecting to be invited to test anytime soon but obviously this backlog will affect how fast my application will be processed. I will reach out to my local MP in Ottawa and the local ndp branch. If there are any protests here too i’d like to join
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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@dpenabill i don’t get why you’re so bothered with people trying to organize to achieve something of their own interest? If you don’t like the idea then don’t push for anything, relax, you clearly have the luxury to! Instead of writing these long threads, a waste of energy really.
My more recent posts have specifically been responses to queries or observations directed to me. Including this one.

And it is simply NOT true, nowhere near accurate, to describe what I have posted or my attitude as "bothered with people trying to organize to achieve something of their own interest." Rather, I have repeatedly emphasized supporting actions which will have better odds of having a positive influence, measures to actually advance the cause.

I am bothered by grossly exaggerated claims that can inflict unnecessary anxiety. I am bothered by counter-productive make-noise campaigns that tend to be more see-me than about influencing the government to go in a better direction.

I am interested in helping citizenship applicants better navigate the process, to the extent I can. And in regards to the particular issue at the core of this topic, the lengthy stall in processing citizenship applications, I know (with certainty) that MOST of those whose applications are bogged down now are indeed going to be waiting quite a lot longer to become citizens. That is how it is going to go. Activism might, and hopefully it will, get things moving sooner and faster, but it is NOT going to be so soon or so fast that many, probably most, will avoid having to wait at least another six months to a year. This is what is happening. This is what many and probably most current applicants will need to deal with in their own personal situations.

For example, someone mentioned needing a "proper passport" for their business, meaning (it appears) they need to be granted Canadian citizenship so they can obtain a Canadian passport. So yes, they have an interest in pushing the government to speed up processing. And my posts should NOT, NOT at all, be interpreted to discourage doing so. But this individual should also be aware, and prepare, for the likelihood that the best case scenario is still a delay of many more months, perhaps a year. That's real. That is what this individual needs to deal with foremost.

Claiming that the mobilization of protests is what will make the difference for this individual is at best misleading. This individual needs to make whatever adjustments are necessary to sustain business anticipating it is still likely to be six months or a year before a Canadian passport is in hand. Which should not discourage engaging in effective activism along the way.

In particular, again, I favour positive actions, measures likely to move the needle in the right direction.

And I am quite sure that exaggerated claims, manipulating immigrants' fears, disparaging insults aimed at those who work for IRCC, and make-noise (see-me) campaigns disproportionate to a genuine effort to influence IRCC to accelerate the processing of citizenship applications, are counter-productive . . . not likely to help, more likely to alienate those who otherwise would support pressing IRCC to up-its-game, tending to divert, diffuse, and undermine real activism, to hurt the genuine efforts to effectively influence the government.

In terms of action: Day before yesterday a post specifically referenced NDP MP Jenny Kwan and gave her email. Which is fine. UNLESS the emails sent to her are cluttered with the kind of negative and disparaging rhetoric populating so many of the posts in this topic. For those who are sincerely interested in real activism, it is important, critical, to focus on a clear, legitimate cause and measures likely to advance that cause. Comments about "lazy" government workers with "cushy" jobs who "live off dumbass taxpayeres . . . without actually doing any work," and the "third world level of government service," or mocking government employees' concerns about the risk of Covid-19, just to quote from a half dozen posts here within the last day, are NOT going to draw even Jenny Kwan to the cause, let alone attract the interest of a body of MPs sufficient to compel action. Quite the opposite.

So let's be clear: Again, with emphasis, I am very much in favour of encouraging citizenship applicants to proactively engage in efforts to encourage IRCC, pressure it even, to get-to-it, to take steps to get citizenship application processing moving and moving faster. As I have oft repeated, in various ways, sometimes bureaucracies need prompting. Now seems to be one of those times.

By the way, Jenny Kwan is an important if not critical ally of many immigrants in Parliament. I am sure that she and her staff are among the hardest working and probably over-stretched in Parliament. She has been virtually the only MP who has made any real effort to get the government to address the overly-broad and draconian law and policy that has had such a devastating impact on those PRs who came to Canada as refugees, who even after qualifying and applying for citizenship are now under threat of losing status in Canada altogether because they did things they did not understand were not allowed (and for many, at the time the law did not prohibit or even sanction) and could lead to their Removal from Canada, like visiting a dying parent in their home country or obtaining a home country passport.

The latter is one of the issues I have made a considerable effort to address, to help those affected, to help them get and keep informed about, especially those who are at risk for not only having their citizenship application derailed but their PR status terminated. Anyone doubting my commitment to help in this forum can see the full history of my bringing that important issue to the attention of those at risk, my learning more about it over time, my staying with it and continuing to help as best I can, from my first post starting the topic: "Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship" (should link) in early August 2015, to my most recent post there this summer, 34 pages of posts later. (Even though I was never a refugee myself, never at risk.)

In any event, I am not discouraging anyone from communicating with Jenny Kwan. But I do suggest to keep it focused specifically on encouraging Parliament to push IRCC to get going sooner, faster, and avoid the kind of disparaging characterizations of the government, IRCC, and government workers, scattered in so many posts above. And I further suggest that it is generally more effective to communicate with the MP for the Riding in which you live . . . recognizing, unfortunately, that in regards to citizenship processing, I suspect a lot of the Conservative MPs are perhaps a lost cause . . . and again, to address a clear issue (the need for accelerating citizenship application processing say) without diatribes about third world country service.
 

omarnabsws

Hero Member
Jan 13, 2016
463
140
Beirut
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
04-01-2017
Nomination.....
16-12-2016
AOR Received.
04-01-2017
File Transfer...
17-02-2017
Med's Done....
03-01-2017
Passport Req..
17-03-2017
My more recent posts have specifically been responses to queries or observations directed to me. Including this one.

And it is simply NOT true, nowhere near accurate, to describe what I have posted or my attitude as "bothered with people trying to organize to achieve something of their own interest." Rather, I have repeatedly emphasized supporting actions which will have better odds of having a positive influence, measures to actually advance the cause.

I am bothered by grossly exaggerated claims that can inflict unnecessary anxiety. I am bothered by counter-productive make-noise campaigns that tend to be more see-me than about influencing the government to go in a better direction.

I am interested in helping citizenship applicants better navigate the process, to the extent I can. And in regards to the particular issue at the core of this topic, the lengthy stall in processing citizenship applications, I know (with certainty) that MOST of those whose applications are bogged down now are indeed going to be waiting quite a lot longer to become citizens. That is how it is going to go. Activism might, and hopefully it will, get things moving sooner and faster, but it is NOT going to be so soon or so fast that many, probably most, will avoid having to wait at least another six months to a year. This is what is happening. This is what many and probably most current applicants will need to deal with in their own personal situations.

For example, someone mentioned needing a "proper passport" for their business, meaning (it appears) they need to be granted Canadian citizenship so they can obtain a Canadian passport. So yes, they have an interest in pushing the government to speed up processing. And my posts should NOT, NOT at all, be interpreted to discourage doing so. But this individual should also be aware, and prepare, for the likelihood that the best case scenario is still a delay of many more months, perhaps a year. That's real. That is what this individual needs to deal with foremost.

Claiming that the mobilization of protests is what will make the difference for this individual is at best misleading. This individual needs to make whatever adjustments are necessary to sustain business anticipating it is still likely to be six months or a year before a Canadian passport is in hand. Which should not discourage engaging in effective activism along the way.

In particular, again, I favour positive actions, measures likely to move the needle in the right direction.

And I am quite sure that exaggerated claims, manipulating immigrants' fears, disparaging insults aimed at those who work for IRCC, and make-noise (see-me) campaigns disproportionate to a genuine effort to influence IRCC to accelerate the processing of citizenship applications, are counter-productive . . . not likely to help, more likely to alienate those who otherwise would support pressing IRCC to up-its-game, tending to divert, diffuse, and undermine real activism, to hurt the genuine efforts to effectively influence the government.

In terms of action: Day before yesterday a post specifically referenced NDP MP Jenny Kwan and gave her email. Which is fine. UNLESS the emails sent to her are cluttered with the kind of negative and disparaging rhetoric populating so many of the posts in this topic. For those who are sincerely interested in real activism, it is important, critical, to focus on a clear, legitimate cause and measures likely to advance that cause. Comments about "lazy" government workers with "cushy" jobs who "live off dumbass taxpayeres . . . without actually doing any work," and the "third world level of government service," or mocking government employees' concerns about the risk of Covid-19, just to quote from a half dozen posts here within the last day, are NOT going to draw even Jenny Kwan to the cause, let alone attract the interest of a body of MPs sufficient to compel action. Quite the opposite.

So let's be clear: Again, with emphasis, I am very much in favour of encouraging citizenship applicants to proactively engage in efforts to encourage IRCC, pressure it even, to get-to-it, to take steps to get citizenship application processing moving and moving faster. As I have oft repeated, in various ways, sometimes bureaucracies need prompting. Now seems to be one of those times.

By the way, Jenny Kwan is an important if not critical ally of many immigrants in Parliament. I am sure that she and her staff are among the hardest working and probably over-stretched in Parliament. She has been virtually the only MP who has made any real effort to get the government to address the overly-broad and draconian law and policy that has had such a devastating impact on those PRs who came to Canada as refugees, who even after qualifying and applying for citizenship are now under threat of losing status in Canada altogether because they did things they did not understand were not allowed (and for many, at the time the law did not prohibit or even sanction) and could lead to their Removal from Canada, like visiting a dying parent in their home country or obtaining a home country passport.

The latter is one of the issues I have made a considerable effort to address, to help those affected, to help them get and keep informed about, especially those who are at risk for not only having their citizenship application derailed but their PR status terminated. Anyone doubting my commitment to help in this forum can see the full history of my bringing that important issue to the attention of those at risk, my learning more about it over time, my staying with it and continuing to help as best I can, from my first post starting the topic: "Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship" (should link) in early August 2015, to my most recent post there this summer, 34 pages of posts later. (Even though I was never a refugee myself, never at risk.)

In any event, I am not discouraging anyone from communicating with Jenny Kwan. But I do suggest to keep it focused specifically on encouraging Parliament to push IRCC to get going sooner, faster, and avoid the kind of disparaging characterizations of the government, IRCC, and government workers, scattered in so many posts above. And I further suggest that it is generally more effective to communicate with the MP for the Riding in which you live . . . recognizing, unfortunately, that in regards to citizenship processing, I suspect a lot of the Conservative MPs are perhaps a lost cause . . . and again, to address a clear issue (the need for accelerating citizenship application processing say) without diatribes about third world country service.
Yea i’m not going to read all that lol
Good luck with your crusade to put people down though!
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Yea i’m not going to read all that lol
Good luck with your crusade to put people down though!
Who is putting whom down?

My efforts, my posts, are to encourage positive action, effective engagement, and at the same time help individuals better understand the process, better navigate their way forward in these difficult and often confusing times. Including an honest assessment of what is at stake here and a realistic apprehension of where things are headed -- recognizing there are more than a few unknowns in the mix, which is an important recognition for those who have real decisions to make in their lives (such as individuals whose business or livelihood depends on international travel).

For clarity: the putting "people down" is entirely by participants here OTHER than me; such references in my post were ALL quotes from others posting here:
@omarnabsws (you) describing Canadian workers as "lazy"​
@hotshot45890 describing IRCC jobs as "cushy" and accusing federal workers of "hypocrisy"​
@mirko.alilovic describing federal works as living "off dumbass taxpayers . . . without actually doing any work"​
@piotrqc mocking government employees' concerns about the risk of Covid-19​

Not to mention the disparaging and FALSE characterizations of my posts and me, by largely the same.

I am absolutely IN FAVOUR of a POSITIVE dialogue about how to encourage a big and typically cumbersome bureaucracy like IRCC to do BETTER. Like communicating with the MP in an individual's riding, using language that is likely to influence positive action, and avoiding rants or diatribes that will hurt not help. Like doing the homework to compose Access to Information requests which have a decent chance of generating responses which can be shared here and which will help to advance our general understanding and also provide some detailed information. While the latter is not likely to generate fuel for make-noise demonstrations, there are good odds it will offer some information which will be useful for some individuals, be that to help them understand their situation better, and thus plan and make decisions accordingly, as well as, perhaps, even information that can be used in their dealing with IRCC going forward.

As I previously mentioned, for example, there are more than TWO THOUSAND COMPLETED ATI requests in some way related to "citizenship" and "testing," which can be screened online in an effort to identify which, among those TWO THOUSAND already completed requests, might be relevant to those trying to learn just what the government is doing in regards to the knowledge of Canada testing for citizenship applicants. I suspect that only a small percentage of those are relevant, so yes it will require a real activist's effort to research what is there to identify what might be worth getting a copy. And, at the least, that effort should help in the framing of additional ATI requests to obtain additional information.

I may take a shot at doing some of that homework myself. But later; the change of season is happening sooner here than expected and I still have some major outdoor projects that must get done before it gets too cold and rainy, let alone before the freeze and snow is staying on the ground.

It appears that @rajkamalmohanram is already making a genuine effort in this direction, and hopefully the revised request will generate some useful results. After all information is power, so this effort should be an especially important element in the overall effort to persuade IRCC to get the processing moving sooner and faster.
 

yasir22

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It is now September and nothing new has been announced. Applicant from November 2018. Still nothing about citizenship tests resuming and I am getting angry.
I am March 2019 applicant. No test yet.
 

ott-613

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Dec 16, 2019
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I am March 2019 applicant. No test yet.
Im curios if those type of delays are related to The applicants nationality? Or previous work on military or government? Alot of people got the citizenship and passport within 6 months from the start to the end. People i know from South America had the applications processed very fast.
 

yasir22

Hero Member
Jun 5, 2014
716
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ontario
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
21-05-2014
Doc's Request.
29-04-2015
File Transfer...
SA on 30-07-2014
Med's Request
19-05-2015
Med's Done....
upfront med.: 7-04-2014 and re-med.: 21-05-2015
Interview........
Waived !!
Passport Req..
DM on 2-06-2015, PPR on 05-06-2015
VISA ISSUED...
Visa issued: 02-07-2015, Received: 07-07-2015
LANDED..........
January 2016
Im curios if those type of delays are related to The applicants nationality? Or previous work on military or government? Alot of people got the citizenship and passport within 6 months from the start to the end. People i know from South America had the applications processed very fast.
Depends on your processing office. Mine is Kitchener Waterloo which is very slow. Pre covid they were taking 12-13 months to send a test invite. In March, offices closed when I was expecting a test invite. Nothing to do with nationality. I had ppl in March group who applied from Ottawa and Calgary and they had their citizenship within 6-7 months.
 

Aktars

Full Member
Feb 14, 2017
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Online test cheating: For those worried about online test cheating, all the university exams in April were written online. Those kids got their degrees. Not sure how people will cheat on video for 20 MCQ questions.

For those worried about us getting Covid at in-person testing centers: If we can go to gym to do non-essential work out without masks (masks required only in corridors and reception), why not citizenship test with masks which is essential for many of us.

Those of you who applied in 2020, yes, your application will also be postponed. It will be years before CIC will return to normal functioning.

Let us all stop arguing and band together to protest in person/online/ go to media/meet local MPs and call /email CIC.
 

piotrqc

Hero Member
Aug 10, 2020
391
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Online test cheating: For those worried about online test cheating, all the university exams in April were written online. Those kids got their degrees. Not sure how people will cheat on video for 20 MCQ questions.

For those worried about us getting Covid at in-person testing centers: If we can go to gym to do non-essential work out without masks (masks required only in corridors and reception), why not citizenship test with masks which is essential for many of us.

Those of you who applied in 2020, yes, your application will also be postponed. It will be years before CIC will return to normal functioning.

Let us all stop arguing and band together to protest in person/online/ go to media/meet local MPs and call /email CIC.

A few members here have made requests for access to information. Answers shouldn't take too long normally.

The results are displayed on this site:

https://open.canada.ca/en/search/ati

I think that if these official answers confirm our fears (It will most certainly be the case, unfortunately), these documents would constitute a very good basis for contacting the press.

We must not let go of the pressure.
 
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twrooney

Star Member
Sep 16, 2019
172
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I am all in for signing the petition or do whatever the thread moderator will ask. Please let me know how I can help the community who are waiting for Citizenship Test. Thank you!
 
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hotshot45890

Star Member
Jun 29, 2020
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A few members here have made requests for access to information. Answers shouldn't take too long normally.

The results are displayed on this site:

https://open.canada.ca/en/search/ati

I think that if these official answers confirm our fears (It will most certainly be the case, unfortunately), these documents would constitute a very good basis for contacting the press.

We must not let go of the pressure.
Are the documents also displayed on the website? My understanding was only information on the request is posted as completed. If we need to see results we would need to request the package individually. Would be great to have a summary on the forum though for everyone. Maybe on this thread once it becomes available.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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To view the actual content in the ATI completed requests requires making an "informal request" for a copy. This is much simpler, cheaper, and usually much faster than making an original request. There is a link to the informal request form for each completed request. Obviously obtaining an electronic copy is the fastest.

The obvious downside is that what is available is what someone else asked for and it can be difficult to find completed requests that will contain the inform being looked for. This is why in a previous post I suggested coordinated efforts, to share the work (this is a labour-intensive endeavor), and to build on each other's respective requests.

Another downside, so far as I have been able to navigate, is that the search function is cumbersome at best. And it will demand a real activist's effort to do the research to find and identify completed requests that are worth obtaining. So yes, for anyone here finding relevant completed requests, apart from making the informal request for a copy it could be helpful to share, here, at least the file (request) number and perhaps the summary of the request.

For example: One completed request that some may be interested in obtaining a copy of is A-2018-67280.

The Request Summary is:

Request Summary: I would like to get the following information from IRCC on the Citizenship-grant application process. 1. Please provide the Step by Step process flow diagram in place for Citizenship-grant application process 2. Please provide the Citizenship-grant applications process report with the following information: - Total number of Citizenship-grant applications completed from 01JAN2018 to 31JAN2019 - Minimum number of days between the Citizenship test date and the citizenship ceremony date of the successful applicants who have passed the citizenship test in the first attempt from 01JAN2018 to 07DEC2018 - Maximum number of days between the Citizenship test date and the citizenship ceremony date of the successful applicants who have passed the citizenship test in the first attempt from 01JAN2018 to 07DEC2018 - How many applications are still in the status of `in process' who have passed the citizenship test in the first attempt from 01OCT2018 to 07DEC2018
The above is a completed request from more than a year ago. It contains 59 pages and is only "disclosed in part."

The latter, "disclosed in part," is likely to hamper many requests for documents about citizenship tests, recognizing that much about the manner of testing, in addition to the content, is confidential and will not be disclosed. And this is where some real effort will be needed, to carefully compose the request in a way that will generate what information related to citizenship testing decisions IRCC will share publicly. Broadly stated requests tend to either generate a ton of irrelevant materials or the output is slashed by excluding or redacting what is disclosed.

As I have mentioned before, this process typically involves a lot of trial and error. For the diligent, dedicated activist who is willing to put in the effort, and has the time, there is indeed a lot to learn from what can be obtained.
 

piotrqc

Hero Member
Aug 10, 2020
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/delays-for-immigration-applicants-to-canada-amid-pandemic-1.5067683

Interesting article to read.

The Minister of Immigration boasts and highlights the zoom ceremony. That's a good thing, but it eclipses people who have had their already scheduled tests canceled, or those awaiting a test.

This advancement of virtual zoom ceremonies is good, but it only affects the lucky few who were lucky enough to take the test before the cancellation.

As a result, the citizenship procedure is de facto canceled for all applicants coming after.

We have to make noise, contact our local federal parliamentarians, the PM's offices, the IRCC file manager in the NDP, and the press.


Si vis pacem, para bellum *


* Latin adage translated as "If you want peace, prepare for war".
 
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