Ray of Hope - 145th Draw - CEC

[Muhammad1987!]

Impossible you didn't receive an ITA for the April 16th draw.

Check your gc account.

How do i share my screenshot with you?

Impossible you didn't receive an ITA for the April 16th draw.

Check your gc account.

i can share my screenshot with you. Pls help & guide brother

 

[ZAtoCD]

How do i share my screenshot with you?

i can share my screenshot with you. Pls help & guide brother

You can insert images into these posts by clicking the 10th button from the left in the bar above the message. Just take a screenshot with print screen, save it in Paint, and then upload it into the post. Just make sure you don't show everyone any personal info.

 

[asksharelearn]

No one has said that, and you're misrepresenting my opinion after not having much to counter it with in terms of logic and facts.

It was not a debate started by me in this thread, i'm just chiming in on what could be possible in the future.

You were the one who wanted to engage further on it and I obliged in the spirit of it being an exchange of ideas.

If you felt this way, you should just said that at the beginning.

But i'll reiterate again, it has nothing to do with a single country in particular, it has everything to do with the rate of admission and the numbers.

No one is saying anyone should not be able to compete, it's more an issue of the political ramifications of having a lot of people immigrating from one country to the extent we've seen recently.

I'm not saying this should be the way it works, only that it is a matter to consider going forward. I just think it's a bit naive to think that if one country of origin makes up almost 90% of new immigrants annually on a consistent basis for EE, that this is not going to raise concerns on a lack of diversity and the effects sustained immigration at this rate will have on demographics in Canada.

I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. Maybe I misunderstood when you said what "might happen" as to what you "wanted to happen" just the way many seem to be suggesting how IRCC should do their job in this forum.

Also I was not attacking you after going out of logic and facts. It looked like you were overstating facts when you said 80k out of 90k quota, so I thought facts were irrelevant in this situation. Even in this reply, you seem to think that 90% of the new immigrants are from one country, which is overstating the facts again.

85k/341k = approx 25% of total immigs or 41K/89K = 46% of EE ITAs which is half or less of your estimates. I know these numbers are more to be coming from one country, but just to give another fact, out of 7.7billion world population 1.3 billion are Indian. so that is about 17% of world population you are talking about. Sorry if there is more competition coming.

When I said even if this trend continues for the next 10 years the number would be insignificant to cause political issues and you seemed to not accept it, it looked like logic was taking a hit. Currently projected population in Canada by 2030 is 41million. So if this trend of 80k Indians/year were to continue for the next 10 years Canadian population of Indian origin would not be more than 1.8million given in 2020 it is about 1million. let's say I exaggerate and if it were to come to 2.5 million i.e, 2.5mil/41mil = approx 6% of the population. Do you think 6% will really affect the political situation of the country? currently, there is about 5% of the Chinese origin population in Canada. Do you see a huge political impact in their favor?

When you suggested that a certain idea might help in avoiding what may happen it seemed like you were suggesting that idea to be implemented by IRCC in a forum where there are other hopeful immigrants. Again sorry for misrepresenting your intentions. My intention was only to ask you not to worry too much over what might or might not happen and hurt the sentiments of others in this forum while doing so based on unreasonable fears and I might have gone overboard with my previous reply for which I apologize for offending if I did.

 

[asksharelearn]

You said "seem not to hurting Canada". Seem being the operative word here. I guarantee you that they will implement what the US has implemented for the same reason. It will happen sooner than we think or want it to happen.

que sera sera. Not in our hands and everyone will accept if and when it happens.

 

[jrossi]

You said "seem not to hurting Canada". Seem being the operative word here. I guarantee you that they will implement what the US has implemented for the same reason. It will happen sooner than we think or want it to happen.

IRCC has already stated they will not follow Trump's steps.

 

[indianstudent96]

This makes no sense. Why would the CRS plummet to 450? Are you seriously suggesting that without India, there are not enough high-scoring candidates looking to live in Canada?

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that Canada may deem a geo cap to be necessary eventually. And if they do, they will implement it, and there's nothing we can do about it. Fairness is one of Canada's values, yes, but that applies to allowing a fair shot for people from all different cultures into the country.

If a particular country has an enormous population and floods the EE pool every year, you may end up with Canada becoming, as one member here put it earlier, a 2.0 version of that foreign country. That might not play well into political stability. And it certainly doesn't play well into the kind of culturally diverse landscape that Canada prides itself on.

I'm from South Africa, and I would have no problem at all having to wait longer because, hypothetically, there were just too many South Africans already accepted into Canada this year. Fortunately, that's not the case, but if it was, I wouldn't scream about being "marginalized". Their government is allowed to set up the EE system in whichever way they please.

I agree with you, @Islander216, in that if Canada figures they can still receive those 470+ candidates to meet the quota every year, but can also put caps on countries based on population size, or historical emigration, etc. they may (and should be able to) do that.

Yes, EE is merit-based, but they can still say the highest scoring candidates from Country X can enter, up to 1,000 people, then we cap and move to the next one. That's still merit-based. Not as merit-based as just leaving it all open and allowing whomever scores highest in the pool to enter, but it's still merit-based. Just with a layer of geo capping on top of it.

It wouldn't be racism, it wouldn't be "marginalization", it wouldn't be unfair discrimination. It would be Canada deciding to protect its cultural diversity through tweaking the EE system. I fully understand how this might upset some people, but if I could accept that (and I haven't even received an ITA yet), then others should be able to as well.

The point is, Canada has come as far as it has, and is one of the best nations in the world to live in. Hence, I assume, why we're all in this forum. The government, through IRCC, is going to do whatever they think is best for Canada, regardless of the opinions of potential immigrants overseas, and I trust that they know what they're doing. They've done more than well enough thus far.

There is a huge misunderstanding here. It's my bad that I did not cite the right references. The recent CEC draws are a good example. Even with high scoring FSW candidates like you in the pool, the score dropped to 455 because of one simple filter applied to the draw, which is no FSW or FST (without provincial nomination) candidates. No one would have foreseen this. If we had general draws happening (assuming there was no pandemic), I highly doubt the cut-off would have plummeted to 450s.

This does not necessarily mean most CEC candidates have scored less than 475 nor does it mean most FSWs have scores above 475. It is impossible for us to know without IRCC releasing such data. The most important point is if we start to exclude a group of candidates (by program or nationality), it will have a huge impact on the cut-off score given that they formed a huge chunk of invited candidates historically. 42-46 % of candidates invited in 2017-2018 were Indian citizens. This backs up the point made by both Islander216 and me. Indian nationals make up a good chunk of Express Entry candidates.

Why was/is this the case? There are several factors coming into play here. I can't speculate what they are. What do these numbers mean? 46% of candidates invited in 2018 just happened to be Indian nationals. It's just that. It does not imply Indian nationals had an edge over people from other countries. If you establish a quota to restrict this to promote diversity, the percentage will definitely change and as a result of it, it is highly likely that the scores will drop simply because you are excluding a group of people who were historically invited more than others because of higher CRS points.

Here is the link to back that up: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/express-entry-year-end-report-2018.html

Yes, IRCC can decide to establish a geo-based quota system which will be ultimately up to them to do that. I agree with you on that. They know what's best for Canada and that's probably why they have not implemented such a thing despite the 2017 and 2018 year-end reports.

Again, talking about fairness, it's all about how we interpret fairness. What's fair to me may not be fair to you. For instance, I don't think having a program-specific draw like CEC and PNP is fair to everyone, especially FSW candidates. I do not like it but several CEC candidates think it's fair to them. Unfortunately, we don't have a say in this, IRCC does. As far as I see, the current CRS system (sans program-specific draws) is fair which allows people to migrate from any country in the world as long as they have a high CRS score. What I am trying to establish is there is nothing explicitly preventing people from other cultures to immigrate to Canada. Marginalization means putting people at a disadvantage. Just for the record, no one is screaming about being marginalized when we are talking about a hypothetical scenario. My argument still stands, you can't fight for fairness by putting others at a disadvantage.

I also think Canada would not have had a huge influx of Indians immigrants had the US had no country-based quota system. Canada is also getting more international students from India due to stricter policies in the US.

We are talking about a completely hypothetical situation, it's totally fine to agree or disagree. Disagreeing does not mean that we should be at each other's throat. At the end of the day, we all are trying to migrate to Canada and make a better life for us.

 

[Arod]

I think I understand the concern of some around here.

We are all coming to Canada because there is something about this country that attracts us, most of the time it is its culture, traditions, people, etc.

Sometimes it is hard to find that when suddenly more and more neighborhoods are full of people coming from one specific country, rather than several. This is even more notorious when the country these people are coming from is so different from Canada.

Eventually and inevitably these people will create their own communities and this event will set them apart from the rest of the population.

Let's take last November - December for example, in some places there were more decorations for Diwali than there were for Christmas.

It was surprising for me to see some Indian landlords post their apartaments or houses for rent in places like Kijiji and asking specifically for Indian tenants.

These things are not a problem for me but they might be a problem for others. There is a reason why immigrants like myself left our countries, most of us don't want Canada to become the country we left behind.

But, if more and more people from one single country are the ones getting here and they insist in only keeping their traditions and customs instead of embracing the Western-Canadian culture, I don't see how to avoid this from happening.

I hope no one gets offended by this, I would think the same way if most immigrants were from Italy, Brazil, Russia, etc.

 

[Shreyyyyy]

Hi Folks,

I have been chasing the Express Entry Cut offs for some time now.
During this process, my score has gotten reduced due to age, IELTS maxed out and I am at 460!
I had lost all my hope with the trend around 470's, but then COVID-19 happened.

Is there a chance that the all program draw can see a drop till 460? Any analysts here...
Only hope is the break until influx of the 470's start again. (No Offense to anyone whatsoever - too much heat on the forum already )

 

[indianstudent96]

I think I understand the concern of some around here.

We are all coming to Canada because there is something about this country that attracts us, most of the time it is its culture, traditions, people, etc.

Sometimes it is hard to find that when suddenly more and more neighborhoods are full of people coming from one specific country, rather than several. This is even more notorious when the country these people are coming from is so different from Canada.

Eventually and inevitably these people will create their own communities and this event will set them apart from the rest of the population.

Let's take last November - December for example, in some places there were more decorations for Diwali than there were for Christmas.

It was surprising for me to see some Indian landlords post their apartaments or houses for rent in places like Kijiji and asking specifically for Indian tenants.

These things are not a problem for me but they might be a problem for others. There is a reason why immigrants like myself left our countries, most of us don't want Canada to become the country we left behind.

But, if more and more people from one single country are the ones getting here and they insist in only keeping their traditions and customs instead of embracing the Western-Canadian culture, I don't see how to avoid this from happening.

I hope no one gets offended by this, I would think the same way if most immigrants were from Italy, Brazil, Russia, etc.

I get that too. I see these neighbourhoods in utter disbelief and I believe they should make an effort to assimilate into Canadian society and live as a Canadian while still retaining their values. No one is asking people to leave their past and their old values behind. We must find a happy medium and should always remember why we chose to move to Canada. While I find this baffling at times, people still have the freedom to do things as they see fit. Tolerance goes both ways. It's important to not fall in the same trap as bigots.

It's because of some bad apples, everyone gets labelled the same way when there are people who embrace their new country and its values. In my experience, people who don't adapt to the Canadian way of living rarely do well outside their communities. I am fortunate enough to be surrounded by my Canadian friends when I came to Canada. I learned Canadian customs and values by hanging out and sharing a townhouse with them.

This is something that has to be addressed one way or another. While I acknowledge this issue, calling for geo-based quotas in economic immigration is still not justified. We should see there are more successful immigrants than not-so-successful immigrants.

 

[indianstudent96]

Hi Folks,

I have been chasing the Express Entry Cut offs for some time now.
During this process, my score has gotten reduced due to age, IELTS maxed out and I am at 460!
I had lost all my hope with the trend around 470's, but then COVID-19 happened.

Is there a chance that the all program draw can see a drop till 460? Any analysts here...
Only hope is the break until influx of the 470's start again. (No Offense to anyone whatsoever - too much heat on the forum already )

It's hard to predict the cut-off score for the next all-program draw. I am expecting a backlog of high scoring FSW candidates (480+) in the pool when they resume general draws. Once they get invited, the cut-off might drop to 470s and depending upon the influx of new candidates, it might drop or increase. Don't lose hope and keep looking for ways to improve your score if you haven't maxed on language scores. Good luck!

 

[seadrag0n]

Just to add to the discussion, 50% of last year's OINP nominations were from India! Wonder what is the breakup for other PNP programs.

 

[indianstudent96]

Just to add to the discussion, 50% of last year's OINP nominations were from India! Wonder what is the breakup for other PNP programs.

Do you have a source for this? I am curious to see if it was for Express Entry or paper-based PR applications. Thanks.

 

[seadrag0n]

Do you have a source for this? I am curious to see if it was for Express Entry or paper-based PR applications. Thanks.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/2020-ontario-immigrant-nominee-program-updates

They have posted breakups for other programs including express entry.

 

[indianstudent96]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/2020-ontario-immigrant-nominee-program-updates

They have posted breakups for other programs including express entry.

I see it. Thanks!

 

[seadrag0n]

This is exactly what the US is avoiding by setting limits. Canada will do the same

Since you are so sure, I'll believe you.