Ray of Hope - 145th Draw - CEC

[chemistesa]

Well, this race-based selection has been done by the Singapore government for years. Here, Chinese people, especially those who are from Malaysia and Indonesia, only need to reside for 1.5 years before they can obtain the PR status. Other races, hmmm, good luck!

And you think this is right?

 

[rishi.hpd]

Just some facts -

1. Immigration System from US of A being exemplified here (For Country Wise Quota) is acknowledged to be “broken/unjust” by many bipartisan Senators in US. Google “S.386” and “HR.1044” - these bills are already through in lower house to remove the country wise quotas. The text reads - “Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2019-2020”. Read Here -
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/386/all-info

2. Taking a cue from Canada’a Express Entry - US plans to build a merit based immigration system as soon as POTUS Trump is re-elected. It’s doesn’t want family based immigration but more of high skilled immigration. Read here -
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-immigration-system-canada-merit-based-points-1.5115475

3. Finally, A quote from Thomas Friedman's “The World Is Flat” - Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion, or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle, or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle. When the sun comes up, you better start running.“

IMO, Please work on improving CRS scores and I am sure nobody would stop anyone from getting the ITA. That’s all that can be done from. Period.

Please understand even after getting a PR - things won’t be “bed of roses”. One would face competition at every aspect of life. Please don’t go for or against any groups. Kindly focus on increasing your “value add” as an individual. Because that’s what Canada is looking at - what you can do for Canada?

 

[joconstantine]

And you think this is right?

If I thought this was right, would I even join this pool in the hope of immigration to Canada? Hahaha.

 

[asksharelearn]

I've already replied to the numbers argument, 85k/341k is diluting the impact because you want to decrease the ratio by adding a lot of irrelevant immigration categories like sponsorship and refugees, which don't count as economic migrants. if you want to say 85k on 195k, total economic migrants across all programs, i would at least say that is reasonable.
And 195k is all the intake across all economic immigration programs, which we can't compare because we don't have the breakdown for them, and this figure is for all places available, it doesn't mean all of them will be filled during the year. So that means the total actual figures could be less, but what we do know is that usually EE fulfills its quota annually.

The article doesn't specify whether for 2019 it is the total number across all categories or just EE, so i'm not taking it as the gospel truth. But i'm just saying, the trend is clear that Indians are dominating EE at a rate which is very high. We don't have the end of year report for 2019, but as i demonstrated for 2018, the numbers are almost the same for the numbers admitted as per the 2018 report. So it's very reasonable to assume that the numbers for 2019 will be similar, and yes, over 80k for 90k places for EE is almost 90% of PRs for EE, which is the main program for economic immigrants.

That's very possibly a concern for diversity.

As for the overall impact, i think this is subjective because different people have different definitions for what is a potential issue or cause for concern when it comes to demographics. However, i will say this, if you want to assess the impact of this it's more useful to analyse it by area. So for example, the GTA is about 51% Indian, if this consistent and significant annual influx of Indian immigrants settle in this area over the years (as would be expected), then you will have an even greater majority of Indians living there. This will obviously have a negative effect on diversity in the vicinity. But putting that aside, what is clear is that certainly the argument that there isn't enough diversity for PRs admitted through EE recently is valid numerically.

Again, for the record, this is not specifically targeted towards Indians, the same concerns would be just as valid if we were talking about any other country.

Anyhow, it's a very interesting discussion but i think it's time to refocus on the topic at hand in this thread. And i wish everyone luck, regardless of where they come from.

I do not want to dilute or decrease the impact. I want to keep it real. Please look at the 2018 year-end report you are mentioning here. in table 10 you can see it explicitly says 41k of total 86k "EE" applicants also mentioning it is 42%. How do you say that the rest of 58% of ITAs are coming into Canada if 80k out of 90k EE are for one group. even if one "naively assumes" that there are no other sponsored Indian immigrants then it would be 85k out of 195k which will be approx 50%

And just because there is no given breakup of the remaining 40k of 85k Indians coming in you are saying it is safe to assume it is only economic and only EE. Please show at least one credible source that says all the 85k Indians that came in 2018 are only from economic category as you are saying.


You are saying 51% of GTA is Indian can you show one credible source to this prove number. Again accepted they are of large concentrations, but please 51% is impossible. The number 51% is right but it is all foreign-born together. Please check wikipedia or any other source. I totally accept that the number of Indians coming in is HUGE. But the percentage numbers you are saying are arbitrarily high.


I really am with @Arod and @indianstudent96 when they say most of Indians are not assimilating with the Canadian communities or culture after immigration. And many "bad apples" are setting a bad example to the idea of Indians which is really unfortunate but not isolated to Indians. But if people keep extrapolating facts then the idea of that group of immigrants will become intimidating to others and people will start looking at their negatives like what is happening right now. I am not saying you are targetting one group here. It could happen to any other group.

I can promise that these trends you see are temporary and obviously there will be curbing actions coming soon as the need arises, but now Canada is only looking from an economic standpoint rather than diversity and that is being served by the current system. Until then as you say it would be best to just concentrate on the next coming draw or current situation. I hope you do not get offended and treat this response as objective as possible.

 

[Atri]

I see lot of unwanted discussion in the thread. Please do not make it CEC vs FSW. If IRCC do not want FSW at this point of time, then we cant do anything. So, better to wait and not start speculating about unnecessary things.
None of us are policy makers nor we can influence policy decisions. Just chill, and wait for next draw (and repeat, else you are at wrong place).

 

[akhil994]

So that's more than 80k PRs from India in 2019 out of around 90k in total for express entry, i don't think that level of immigration from only one country is sustainable politically.

That's 80k out of 341k, not 90k..

 

[Islander216]

I do not want to dilute or decrease the impact. I want to keep it real. Please look at the 2018 year-end report you are mentioning here. in table 10 you can see it explicitly says 41k of total 86k "EE" applicants also mentioning it is 42%. How do you say that the rest of 58% of ITAs are coming into Canada if 80k out of 90k EE are for one group. even if one "naively assumes" that there are no other sponsored Indian immigrants then it would be 85k out of 195k which will be approx 50%

Bro, you are completely mixing and matching figures for both years, and you're turning it into a mixed curry.
You're mixing 2018 and 2019 figures, go back to the article i elicited to know what i'm talking bout.

41k is for 2018 and 80k is for 2019, that's what you need to know.

And just because there is no given breakup of the remaining 40k of 85k Indians coming in you are saying it is safe to assume it is only economic and only EE. Please show at least one credible source that says all the 85k Indians that came in 2018 are only from economic category as you are saying.

Who has said this?? You're getting confused here.

You are saying 51% of GTA is Indian can you show one credible source to this prove number. Again accepted they are of large concentrations, but please 51% is impossible. The number 51% is right but it is all foreign-born together. Please check wikipedia or any other source. I totally accept that the number of Indians coming in is HUGE. But the percentage numbers you are saying are arbitrarily high.


I really am with @Arod and @indianstudent96 when they say most of Indians are not assimilating with the Canadian communities or culture after immigration. And many "bad apples" are setting a bad example to the idea of Indians which is really unfortunate but not isolated to Indians. But if people keep extrapolating facts then the idea of that group of immigrants will become intimidating to others and people will start looking at their negatives like what is happening right now. I am not saying you are targetting one group here. It could happen to any other group.

I can promise that these trends you see are temporary and obviously there will be curbing actions coming soon as the need arises, but now Canada is only looking from an economic standpoint rather than diversity and that is being served by the current system. Until then as you say it would be best to just concentrate on the next coming draw or current situation. I hope you do not get offended and treat this response as objective as possible.

I'm not entering the assimilation debate, because that's a long one and i prefer to make my point based on the figures.

But i will say for example, i was looking at an air bnb and it was an Indian couple, and they stipulated that no one could eat beef who stayed with them.

And i just thought, well that's fair but what if with the greater number of Indians this became a frequent stipulation, somehow the freedom people have would diminish based on their conditions which come with their culture and religion.

What's next? You roll into burger king and get attacked by cow vigilantes in Toronto?

Okay, that's a jump i know, but these are legitimate concerns which people have that come with big influxes of immigrants from a certain country. Because the concern is that the more people there are from one country, the less likely they are to integrate into the society of their host country.

 

[georgeb88]

I agree with you 1000%. They should start awarding diversity points based on the numbers of landed PRs from the previous year. This should be done on a sliding scale. So the country with the most landed PRs from he previous year should be awarded 0 diversity points as a starting point. 100 extra points should be awarded to people wanting to move to Canada based on their country of birth if they represent the minority of Landed PRs in the previous year.

hmm.. Points awarded for NOT BELONGING to a specific ethnicity..
Hmm why havnt Canadian government thought of this “brilliant" idea yet.... wait I know - Cos they are not led by anyone named Adolf Hitler, that's why!

Seriously... what's happening to this discussion.. I mean what are we talking about here?!

 

[Wotsit]

hmm.. Points awarded for NOT BELONGING to a specific ethnicity..
Hmm why havnt Canadian government thought of this “brilliant" idea yet.... wait I know - Cos they are not led by anyone named Adolf Hitler, that's why!

Seriously... what's happening to this discussion.. I mean what are we talking about here?!

Maybe I misread the post you quoted but it seemed to me it actually promoted diversity...
I thought it was an idea for fair immigration for all countries.
I'm not sure it would work but it was an interesting idea.

 

[asksharelearn]

Bro, you are completely mixing and matching figures for both years, and you're turning it into a mixed curry.
You're mixing 2018 and 2019 figures, go back to the article i elicited to know what i'm talking bout.

41k is for 2018 and 80k is for 2019, that's what you need to know.

The figures in that article are about total immigration. You cannot simply assume the 80K is for EE because the article does not mention. That is what I mean to say. That will be extrapolating.

I'm not entering the assimilation debate, because that's a long one and i prefer to make my point based on the figures.

But i will say for example, i was looking at an air bnb and it was an Indian couple, and they stipulated that no one could eat beef who stayed with them.

And i just thought, well that's fair but what if with the greater number of Indians this became a frequent stipulation, somehow the freedom people have would diminish based on their conditions which come with their culture and religion.

What's next? You roll into burger king and get attacked by cow vigilantes in Toronto?

Okay, that's a jump i know, but these are legitimate concerns which people have that come with big influxes of immigrants from a certain country. Because the concern is that the more people there are from one country, the less likely they are to integrate into the society of their host country.

As I said I respect assimilation debate. I totally agree when people say that somethings immigrants do outside their homes are unacceptable, but the Airbnb example you gave here is totally invalid. and cow vigilantes is more than a jump and never going to happen in even the wildest scenarios.

So it's better we just stay put to our points based on figures. Maybe we actually had enough and its time to give it a rest. What would you say? We have been going on about this for a while. We can both just agree to disagree

 

[Islander216]

The figures in that article are about total immigration. You cannot simply assume the 80K is for EE because the article does not mention. That is what I mean to say. That will be extrapolating.

Sure, if that's your best argument, then i think it says it all. The number remains high even if it's across all categories, but for 2018 it's almost the same for EE and the total number. So it's a logical progression to say most of 2019 would be part of EE as well.

As I said I respect assimilation debate. I totally agree when people say that somethings immigrants do outside their homes are unacceptable, but the Airbnb example you gave here is totally invalid. and cow vigilantes is more than a jump and never going to happen in even the wildest scenarios.

So it's better we just stay put to our points based on figures. Maybe we actually had enough and its time to give it a rest. What would you say? We have been going on about this for a while. We can both just agree to disagree

I disagree, it shows your society is changing because of people from this country.

Well, India is no longer a secular country anymore, no one thought that would happen. Who's to say the problems they have there won't be brought to Canada with high rates of immigration from this country?

 

[dyllee]

Quick question, are changes to application details recorded before submitting the application?

 

[asksharelearn]

Sure, if that's your best argument, then i think it says it all. The number remains high even if it's across all categories, but for 2018 it's almost the same for EE and the total number. So it's a logical progression to say most of 2019 would be part of EE as well.

Does the above statement mean that 2018 applicants to EE and total immigration are similar and that will be similar in 2019? is that what you mean? I want to make sure before trying to respond to it. That is. if there were a total of 69K total indian immigrants in 2018 about 90% were EE applicants? Say about 62k EE applicants? Please correct if I am wrong.

 

[georgeb88]

Maybe I misread the post you quoted but it seemed to me it actually promoted diversity...
I thought it was an idea for fair immigration for all countries.
I'm not sure it would work but it was an interesting idea.

Promoting diversity doesn't mean you limit the chance of a specific ethnic group right? Then that would mean that everyone does not stand a fair chance.. That idea quoted is discrimination, but deceptively wrapped in the guise of "promoting diversity".

Promoting diversity should also mean anyone and everyone from ANYWHERE stands a chance.. and an equal chance.

 

[Islander216]

Quick question, are changes to application details recorded before submitting the application?

Yes, as long as you save them.