Procedural Fairness NOC 2174

[costel]

Hello!

I applied for PR under the CEC class (inland) in February 2019. My work experience is as a software developer at a mid-size medical tech startup which produces a device for the diagnosis of a certain condition. The software that we write is critical to the functioning of the device, it's not something auxiliary.

A few days ago I received the following Procedural Fairness letter. I'm not sure what the officer needs, it seems that his understanding is that software engineers cannot work at companies which don't sell software. Any help is much appreciated!

****
relevant excerpt from procedural fairness letter


I have concerns with the NOC 2174 - Computer programmers and Interactive media developers you are claiming.

The duties on the letter of employment indicate you would fall under that NOC; however, review of the company’s website states, "XXX designs and produces medical devices for the following conditions: [...]"

The lead statement of NOC 2174 is "Computer programmers write, modify, integrate and test computer code for software applications, data processing applications, operating systems-level software and communications software. Interactive media developers write, modify, integrate and test computer code for Internet and mobile applications, computer-based training software, computer games, film, video and other interactive media. They are employed in computer software development firms, information technology consulting firms, and in information technology units throughout the private and public sectors."

Hence I am asking you to submit any additional information to address my concerns.

 

[zardoz]

Hello!

I applied for PR under the CEC class (inland) in February 2019. My work experience is as a software developer at a mid-size medical tech startup which produces a device for the diagnosis of a certain condition. The software that we write is critical to the functioning of the device, it's not something auxiliary.

A few days ago I received the following Procedural Fairness letter. I'm not sure what the officer needs, it seems that his understanding is that software engineers cannot work at companies which don't sell software. Any help is much appreciated!

****
relevant excerpt from procedural fairness letter


I have concerns with the NOC 2174 - Computer programmers and Interactive media developers you are claiming.

The duties on the letter of employment indicate you would fall under that NOC; however, review of the company’s website states, "XXX designs and produces medical devices for the following conditions: [...]"

The lead statement of NOC 2174 is "Computer programmers write, modify, integrate and test computer code for software applications, data processing applications, operating systems-level software and communications software. Interactive media developers write, modify, integrate and test computer code for Internet and mobile applications, computer-based training software, computer games, film, video and other interactive media. They are employed in computer software development firms, information technology consulting firms, and in information technology units throughout the private and public sectors."

Hence I am asking you to submit any additional information to address my concerns.

This NOC is the correct fit based on the information from http://noc.esdc.gc.ca/English/noc/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=2&val1=2173&ver=16&val65=Software

2173 Software engineers and designers

Lead statement
Software engineers and designers research, design, evaluate, integrate and maintain software applications, technical environments, operating systems, embedded software, information warehouses and telecommunications software. They are employed in information technology consulting firms, information technology research and development firms, and information technology units throughout the private and public sectors, or they may be self-employed.
Example Titles
application architect
computer software engineer
embedded software engineer
software architect
software design engineer
software design verification engineer
software designer
software systems integration engineer
software technical architect
software testing engineer
telecommunications software engineer

 

[mbaleine]

it seems that his understanding is that software engineers cannot work at companies which don't sell software.

Sounds like you should be focusing on addressing this particular concern. Maybe try to get your head of product development (or alike) on board, and have him/her write & sign a letter testifying that "[t]he software that we write is critical to the functioning of the device". Basically what you explained in your post. Just focus on expanding upon that, elaborating, and formalizing your explanation by providing documented proof.

 

[costel]

This NOC is the correct fit based on the information from http://noc.esdc.gc.ca/English/noc/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=2&val1=2173&ver=16&val65=Software

2173 Software engineers and designers

Lead statement
Software engineers and designers research, design, evaluate, integrate and maintain software applications, technical environments, operating systems, embedded software, information warehouses and telecommunications software.

My job title is software developer. I write code mainly for a stand-alone app that communicates and controls the medical device, and it's not embedded in the medical device itself. There is also a restapi behind that communicates with the app. The device itself has some embedded software, but it's very limited.

Also, there is a lot of confusion with 2174 versus 2173. Software engineering to me means designing and writing code. The NOC description for 2173 seems to point out that software engineers do not write code, and they only plan, design architectures, develop models and so on.

 

[tuhadapeo]

I completely agree 2174 & 2173 are confusing. I was on the same boat and changed from 2174 to 73 post ITA. Not to discourage you but 2173 seems like the right option as far as what you’ve described. P.S I also develop software for medical device company.

What platform do you work on? Mobile or proprietary?

My job title is software developer. I write code mainly for a stand-alone app that communicates and controls the medical device, and it's not embedded in the medical device itself. There is also a restapi behind that communicates with the app. The device itself has some embedded software, but it's very limited.

Also, there is a lot of confusion with 2174 versus 2173. Software engineering to me means designing and writing code. The NOC description for 2173 seems to point out that software engineers do not write code, and they only plan, design architectures, develop models and so on.

 

[costel]

I completely agree 2174 & 2173 are confusing. I was on the same boat and changed from 2174 to 73 post ITA. Not to discourage you but 2173 seems like the right option as far as what you’ve described. P.S I also develop software for medical device company.

What platform do you work on? Mobile or proprietary?

I already chose 2174 as that was the best match for job duties.

The platform is Android. We write an app that runs on a tablet that controls the medical device that's attached to the human body.

 

[deeps1987]

T"duties on the letter of employment indicate you would fall under that NOC; however, review of the company’s website states, "XXX designs and produces medical devices for the following conditions:"

Looks like officer is okay that the roles and responsibilities aligns with NOC2174, but he is not convinced that you are able to perform this role in the company you specified. You need to convince what your company does and how your work fit in your company's business model.

 

[costel]

I also worked on a rest api server, if that matters.

 

[costel]

Sounds like you should be focusing on addressing this particular concern. Maybe try to get your head of product development (or alike) on board, and have him/her write & sign a letter testifying that "[t]he software that we write is critical to the functioning of the device". Basically what you explained in your post. Just focus on expanding upon that, elaborating, and formalizing your explanation by providing documented proof.

I sent them a reply along these lines, including an official letter from my company. I received COPR two weeks after that. Thanks for your help!

 

[mbaleine]

I sent them a reply along these lines, including an official letter from my company. I received COPR two weeks after that. Thanks for your help!

Glad it all worked out!!

 

[apprajapati]

I already chose 2174 as that was the best match for job duties.

The platform is Android. We write an app that runs on a tablet that controls the medical device that's attached to the human body.

Hello, how did your PR process go? Did you face any NOC problems? I am with the same position "Android developer" and I work on mobile applications. Please let me know. thank you.

 

[Pbooracricko]

My second job has the following responsibilities- ( Assistant software programmer)



1. Modify existing programs in accordance with the current industry best practices.

2.Implement and suggest fixes to any technical issues or defects raised by the testing teams.

3. Assist with the preparation of design specification documentation.

4. Analyze, construct, test and configure process definitions.

5. Use flowcharts to translate business logic to technical configuration.

6. Perform unit testing and document the test cases for new programs.

7. Assist in the deployment of in-house processes and programs.

8. Provide application support for data migrations and business testing.

9. Collaborate with other teams and support their ad-hoc requests.

10. Participate in regular code maintenance activities.

11. Attend project status calls and communicate the discussion to concerned team members.

12.Researching,designing,implementingandmanagingsoftwareprograms

13. Writing and implementing efficient codes by evaluating new programs.

14. Identifying areas for modification in existing programs and subsequently developing the modifications.

15. Maintaining and upgrading existing systems by deploying software tools, processes and metrics.

16. Working closely with other developers,UXdesigners,businessandsystemsanalysts.



And the first job had the following - ( Junior software developer)



1. Assist and work closely with other software programmers and developers in modeling, modifying, integrating and testing codes as per the business requirement.



2. Assist other co-workers in the development and documentation of logical and physical programming specifications.



3. Assist in identifying and communicating technical problems, processing and finding a solution by modifying existing programs, reprogramming and debugging of programming codes as per user's requirement.



4. Assist in researching and assessing of different software items by collecting and preparing reports and documentations according to client and business prerequisites.



5. Direct, assign, co-ordinate teams of programmers and assist them in reviewing of projects and programs.





Can you please check whether the roles and responsibilities of both the companies I worked in come under the NOC 20174?

 

[Pbooracricko]

Hello , I need your suggestion. . Can you please have a look at my work experience certificate format that I prepared under the NOC 2174.



Employee Id:- __________

Dated: 03/02/2020



To Whom It May Concern



This is to certify that _________, resident of ____________, worked in our organization ________________ , during the period of 04/08/2016 to 10/08/2018 (Full-time) as an Assistant Software Programmer and she was earning a gross salary of Rs. 1,29,360/- per Annum with a monthly salary of Rs. 10,780/-. The mode of payment of her salary was cash in hand. Working hours were 45 hours per week ( Office timing being ________ to _____ - five days a week)

Listed below were her key roles and responsibilities-

1. Assist and work closely with other software programmers and developers in modeling, modifying, integrating and testing codes as per the business requirement.

2. Assist other co-workers in the development and documentation of logical and physical programming specifications.

3. Assist in identifying and communicating technical problems, processing and finding a solution by modifying existing programs, reprogramming and debugging of programming codes as per user's requirement.

4. Assist in researching and assessing of different software items by collecting and preparing reports and documentations according to client and business prerequisites.

5. Direct, assign, co-ordinate teams of programmers and assist them in reviewing of projects and programs.



During this period we found her to be self-starter who is motivated, fast learner, duty bound and a highly committed team player with strong conceptual knowledge and his performance was excellent.



We assure you that we have been truthful in our disclosures pertaining to _________. If you have any further questions with regard to his background , please do not hesitate to call or email us. This certificate has been issued on specific request of employee. Thanks & Regards,



( HR Manager )

Email : __________________________

Contact: _________________________






Your suggestions will be highly obliged.