Will Trump's point based immigration pass?

[DEEPCUR]

@deadbird How about this? You like that? While HR1044 is gaining more and more cosponsors.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/politics/house-passes-dream-and-promise-act/index.html

Take a medium to long term plan and go ahead.

I have a colleague who is ardent Trump supporter, even he is not giving up yet on this topic, and continues to believe that Trump will solve the America's long pending immigration puzzle. When Trump was elected, he was like .. 'look he is a business man, he knows how to get things done'.. similar to deadbird, he felt passing tax reform was phenomenal bi partisan corporate friendly achievement, next I am getting my green card either through a merit program or by backlog clearance..
tax reform was by no means a bipartisan achievement. if one gets in to details, they will understand that republicans have jumped through so many hoops and countless amendments to make it filibuster proof. The intent was getting it passed somehow rather than whether what they did was right or wrong thing to do.

After two years, even now he is still not giving up and is very hopeful that green card is very much within reach for him. Reason - Jared Kushner is backing the current immigration bill and he will make it happen at any cost because he got criminal justice reform passed.

I got tired explaining him.. like justinline termed, it does play 'dangerous mind games' and continues to fool people.

 

[Bs65]

Off topic but the US has now implemented the requirement for all visa applicants immigrants and non immigrants to supply on mandatory basis social media ids, email ids and any telephone numbers used in the last 5 years. In discussing the points based system for immigration maybe they are looking for how many likes a person has posted on the Trump Twitter feed as a deciding factor ! Obviously unlikely but nothing probably surprises anyone with the current administration.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/02/politics/state-department-social-media-visa/index.html

 

[Xtreme Innovations]

I have a colleague who is ardent Trump supporter, even he is not giving up yet on this topic, and continues to believe that Trump will solve the America's long pending immigration puzzle. When Trump was elected, he was like .. 'look he is a business man, he knows how to get things done'.. similar to deadbird, he felt passing tax reform was phenomenal bi partisan corporate friendly achievement, next I am getting my green card either through a merit program or by backlog clearance..
tax reform was by no means a bipartisan achievement. if one gets in to details, they will understand that republicans have jumped through so many hoops and countless amendments to make it filibuster proof. The intent was getting it passed somehow rather than whether what they did was right or wrong thing to do.

After two years, even now he is still not giving up and is very hopeful that green card is very much within reach for him. Reason - Jared Kushner is backing the current immigration bill and he will make it happen at any cost because he got criminal justice reform passed.

I got tired explaining him.. like justinline termed, it does play 'dangerous mind games' and continues to fool people.

No immigration system is perfect- I know others who have received their green card- is it okay to use one Person's case to judge a whole immigration system? definitely one president alone can't solve an immigration problem, How did Canada handle people crossing into their border- did Pm Trudeau not just announce that those who have applied for asylum elsewhere would not be considered?

 

[Xtreme Innovations]

Off topic but the US has now implemented the requirement for all visa applicants immigrants and non immigrants to supply on mandatory basis social media ids, email ids and any telephone numbers used in the last 5 years. In discussing the points based system for immigration maybe they are looking for how many likes a person has posted on the Trump Twitter feed as a deciding factor ! Obviously unlikely but nothing probably surprises anyone with the current administration.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/02/politics/state-department-social-media-visa/index.html

It is good you mentioned that the social media part was unlikely- I was a Hillary supporter but I don't understand the outrage with immigration, I have happened to travel in many countries and apart from USA, Canada and Australia , perhaps New Zealand how many countries are offering pathways to permanent stays in their countries? Is China, RUSSIA, India or which other country? The things people are asking of the USA immigration can they ask it of their own countries? Do their own countries just let other determine their immigration policy? Is it really fair? I am all for immigration but should it not be on the terms of the host country?

 

[deadbird]

Weth

Wondering what has points based system and Trump loving public got to do with points based system? Canada has the same points based system and it gives immigrants all over the world the opportunity to migrate, not just those that are geographically close. what's so different with what Trump is proposing? Canada also demands English and people are writing IELTS over and over many times just to make it and no one interprets it as an action intended to limit a certain group of speakers. I am not sure why this is becoming a race issue when Canada has exact system and people from different races are following the Canadian stipulations to come here. Hispanics can learn English just as others who are having to learn English to permit them move to another country. No country even Canada lets you come in to integrate without some level of English because it is the language of use.
Whether the bill passes or not it is up to their system, the democrats might not be happy it doesn't cover DACA but what about immigrants form other countries who want to come to the USA but have no family are not geographically close or can't win the lottery? There are people I know who play lottery for 10 years and never win. That's is why many prefer the Canadian system which is based on skills and you can determine if you qualify and look at improving your self. Personally I think both parties can benefit from this policy and not just reject because Trump is the one who suggested it

By itself point based immigration system is not sufficient. Another necessary condition is the number of visas issued. Canada takes 350,000 immigrants/year which is about 1% of its population. The US takes in 1,200,000 immigrants per year which is only 0.3% of its population. Furthermore, of the 1,200,000 only 140,000 are employment based, making it something like 0.03% of its population. It's supply and demand, since more demand and less supply will mean a higher points cutoff. The implication is that people without very high incomes (>$500K), PhDs and excellent english will not qualify. You can imagine why it's unpopular with low to medium skilled workers. You asked why this is a race issue? unfortunately race is highly correlated with socio-economic status. Though remember that correlation is not causation.
References:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/departmental-plan-2018-2019/departmental-plan.html#Levels
https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/employment-based-immigration

 

[deadbird]

@deadbird How about this? You like that? While HR1044 is gaining more and more cosponsors.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/politics/house-passes-dream-and-promise-act/index.html

Take a medium to long term plan and go ahead.

@Samoinp I didn't get it. Can you clarify the point you are trying to make?

 

[Samoinp]

@Samoinp I didn't get it. Can you clarify the point you are trying to make?

Sarcasm.

Democrats majority house passes the bill which they know will not go through senate but gives false hope for the intended target, DACA folks.
Likewise Trump and others proposing Merit based immigration know it will not pass through house but will keep H1B folks hanging.

End of the day, both will go to their constituents claiming they tried their best.

 

[DEEPCUR]

No immigration system is perfect- I know others who have received their green card- is it okay to use one Person's case to judge a whole immigration system? definitely one president alone can't solve an immigration problem, How did Canada handle people crossing into their border- did Pm Trudeau not just announce that those who have applied for asylum elsewhere would not be considered?

I didn't get what you are trying to say, but countries like Canada follow parliamentary system that enables them tk

Sarcasm.

Democrats majority house passes the bill which they know will not go through senate but gives false hope for the intended target, DACA folks.
Likewise Trump and others proposing Merit based immigration know it will not pass through house but will keep H1B folks hanging.

End of the day, both will go to their constituents claiming they tried their best.

You should see how they organized they did this.. Democrat public relations machinery at its best. out of the blue, they pass the bill in Congress, CNN comes up with the news item on a fairly positive tone. Next day Mark Zuckerberg publishes a post praising the passage of the bill. His tone sounded very jubilant, as if it became a law and ended the miseries of DACA kids. He is probably publishing a well crafted joint PR material from his PR team and Democrat PR team purely intended to give false hope and nothing more.

People were not getting the fact that it has just passed Dem Congress.. the responses to his post from the common people were equally enthusiastic. Nobody there seemed to have any clue on the real fate of that bill and were posting congratulatory posts.. huh.

 

[Samoinp]

I didn't get what you are trying to say, but countries like Canada follow parliamentary system that enables them tk


You should see how they organized they did this.. Democrat public relations machinery at its best. out of the blue, they pass the bill in Congress, CNN comes up with the news item on a fairly positive tone. Next day Mark Zuckerberg publishes a post praising the passage of the bill. His tone sounded very jubilant, as if it became a law and ended the miseries of DACA kids. He is probably publishing a well crafted joint PR material from his PR team and Democrat PR team purely intended to give false hope and nothing more.

People were not getting the fact that it has just passed Dem Congress.. the responses to his post from the common people were equally enthusiastic. Nobody there seemed to have any clue on the real fate of that bill and were posting congratulatory posts.. huh.

Perception is reality and US lawmakers and influencers are great at exploiting emotions.
They will sell shit as gold

 

[Xtreme Innovations]

By itself point based immigration system is not sufficient. Another necessary condition is the number of visas issued. Canada takes 350,000 immigrants/year which is about 1% of its population. The US takes in 1,200,000 immigrants per year which is only 0.3% of its population. Furthermore, of the 1,200,000 only 140,000 are employment based, making it something like 0.03% of its population. It's supply and demand, since more demand and less supply will mean a higher points cutoff. The implication is that people without very high incomes (>$500K), PhDs and excellent english will not qualify. You can imagine why it's unpopular with low to medium skilled workers. You asked why this is a race issue? unfortunately race is highly correlated with socio-economic status. Though remember that correlation is not causation.
References:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/departmental-plan-2018-2019/departmental-plan.html#Levels
https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/employment-based-immigration

You raised a point which is quite true that the number USA takes is just some percentage of their population, but again they have been receiving immigrants for years.. I personally have more than 100 family and extended family in the USA - not to talk of almost all my classmates (they and their families) are in the USA. I am only referring to people are Know personally but there are whole communities from my hometown in some states in the USA. So I am also thinking cumulatively over the years they have continually taken people through various programs. So maybe they take only 1,200.000 immigrants a year, but what are the reasons that makes a country increase immigrant number? Are they bound by any law to take more than the 0.3%?
the implications you raised are very feasible but again it is a policy that is yet to be tried. It is just like express entry, when it started it was super difficult for some categories of people to qualify and even now, I know so many people I talk to and they are not able to qualify (either working experience etc). You can check IRCC reports and you would see that certain countries are the dominant ones getting PR it is far from representative.....I would have thought by now the Canadian government would do something to improve representation across continents and countries. But EE still works fine. I believe that a country should have the leverage to see what works best according to their needs. USA has a population of over 350 million - so even though immigrants maybe skilled etc....they are at a point that they can make a choice as to what kind of immigration best suits their needs. I raised the race issue with regards to the comment that the points based system is a way to keep Latinos and non white people out - when in fact a lot of non white people are using a points based system to go to other countries like Australia and Canada. One the other hand too- the Canadian system by reason of POF alone is keeping many potential PRs from some countries out.... but it is working right. My point is that no one immigration system can address every need

 

[deadbird]

You raised a point which is quite true that the number USA takes is just some percentage of their population, but again they have been receiving immigrants for years.. I personally have more than 100 family and extended family in the USA - not to talk of almost all my classmates (they and their families) are in the USA. I am only referring to people are Know personally but there are whole communities from my hometown in some states in the USA. So I am also thinking cumulatively over the years they have continually taken people through various programs. So maybe they take only 1,200.000 immigrants a year, but what are the reasons that makes a country increase immigrant number? Are they bound by any law to take more than the 0.3%?
the implications you raised are very feasible but again it is a policy that is yet to be tried. It is just like express entry, when it started it was super difficult for some categories of people to qualify and even now, I know so many people I talk to and they are not able to qualify (either working experience etc). You can check IRCC reports and you would see that certain countries are the dominant ones getting PR it is far from representative.....I would have thought by now the Canadian government would do something to improve representation across continents and countries. But EE still works fine. I believe that a country should have the leverage to see what works best according to their needs. USA has a population of over 350 million - so even though immigrants maybe skilled etc....they are at a point that they can make a choice as to what kind of immigration best suits their needs. I raised the race issue with regards to the comment that the points based system is a way to keep Latinos and non white people out - when in fact a lot of non white people are using a points based system to go to other countries like Australia and Canada. One the other hand too- the Canadian system by reason of POF alone is keeping many potential PRs from some countries out.... but it is working right. My point is that no one immigration system can address every need

That's a fair analysis, I agree with you. A country should and must be able to decide what kind of immigrants it wants.

 

[justinline]

I agree as well....a country's immigration policy is it's own business. No one is victim here....and it's not about fairness.
And it's so sensitive topic ....boy I had some heated discussions on this with some of my friends.....as soon as you try to tell them that......they fulminate like a 1000 tons of TNT. Even more sensitive are the ones whose kids are ageing out. Try telling them that....I had one person tell me, their kids feel like American....so they somehow deserve EAD more than DACA kids. No use telling them....it's parent's fault, for not setting the expectations right....as if US gives a damn about anyone's feelings. Somehow during the discussions.....I felt like I was being mean to the kids who are ageing out....now when I go to dinner parties....inavariably immigration topics comes up, I just nod my head.

 

[deadbird]

I agree as well....a country's immigration policy is it's own business. No one is victim here....and it's not about fairness.
And it's so sensitive topic ....boy I had some heated discussions on this with some of my friends.....as soon as you try to tell them that......they fulminate like a 1000 tons of TNT. Even more sensitive are the ones whose kids are ageing out. Try telling them that....I had one person tell me, their kids feel like American....so they somehow deserve EAD more than DACA kids. No use telling them....it's parent's fault, for not setting the expectations right....as if US gives a damn about anyone's feelings. Somehow during the discussions.....I felt like I was being mean to the kids who are ageing out....now when I go to dinner parties....inavariably immigration topics comes up, I just nod my head.

Yeah, even I don't feel sorry for parents who can't think enough to plan ahead.. They just assume that it's going to work out somehow. People should make contingency plans like moving to Canada, Australia or back to India. I wonder why they so desperately want to stay in the US, is it money and career opportunities? If so, then they should have the financial capacity to save $500K + fees for EB5. These are the same parents who want to buy a fancy car, sign up for a mortgage on a suburban house and send their kids to private school; but don't have the sense to save for EB5. I do feel bad for the kids though. Kids are kids, they are innocent in this whole charade.

 

[DEEPCUR]

So HR1044 passed the house.. wondering what's going to happen in Senate. Given that all senators from a party try to stay together during votes, if all Democrats (48) vote for this along with 16 republican senators who have already co-sponsorsed this bill, it could easily cross the magic 60+ votes needed to cross Senate!

 

[harirajmohan]

So HR1044 passed the house.. wondering what's going to happen in Senate. Given that all senators from a party try to stay together during votes, if all Democrats (48) vote for this along with 16 republican senators who have already co-sponsorsed this bill, it could easily cross the magic 60+ votes needed to cross Senate!

Is it being considered for voting? Too many bills and on top of it the merit based proposal draft... seems another ploy to divert... dont know. not holding breath for it because:
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jan/26/ronald-brownstein/did-senators-pass-immigration-reform-bills-2006-20/
The ugly truth about politicians - Here the example is about the REPs:
The U.S. Senate passed bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform in 2013, but Republican Speaker of the House John Boehner refused to bring it to the floor.
In 2017-18, Republicans had absolute control of the House, Senate and executive branch. They could have enacted anything they wanted. They passed one piece of major legislation. Remember? A huge tax cut for the wealthiest among us followed by indebting future generations to pay for it.