Be warned - it takes 3+ months at the moment.
There is a great thread on these forums that goes into a lot of detail. http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/fbi-pcc.247817/unread
Police Certificate requirement for countries where an individual spent 6+ months
- Thread starter avro1959
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There is a great thread on these forums that goes into a lot of detail. http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/fbi-pcc.247817/unread
I may be wrong but:
What we all are missing here is "an applicant who's not in Canada (holding no status like refuge, student, work permit, immigration) as landed immigrant/any status and he/she was in his/her home town during first 6 or 12-months of 4 year, why would those 183 days be counted towards absence from Canada?"
If needed, the applicant had already submitted that Police Certificate as part of his/her immigration application before.
My understanding is that, if we look at old forms where 6 yrs is mentioned, it clearly says "or after becoming permanent resident." So in new form, with last 4 years and if we add 'or becoming PR' the entire confusion would go away.
I already had sent a message to IRCC and waiting for their reply regarding same.
Not really. This has not been missed.
This has been raised and addressed multiple times, going back to the summer when Bill C-6 received Royal Assent.
The Short, Best Answer: Respond to item 10.b truthfully. If the truthful response is yes, check "yes" and follow the instructions, and thus either provide a police certificate or an explanation why one could not be obtained.
In deciding how to answer item 10.b, count all days in another country during the preceding four years, including days prior to becoming a PR. If the total number of days in another country is 183 or more, check "yes." And again, follow the instructions.
In other words: If in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions. A key instruction to follow: be truthful.
Some propose an alternative approach for those who are confident they do not need to submit a police certificate, even though the truthful answer to the yes/no question in item 10.b is yes:
The main versions of the proposition are, essentially, that there is an exception for applicants who have not left Canada since landing as a PR, or that days prior to landing do not count when adding up the total number of days in another country.
I would caution against conflating arguments about why there should be such an exception (such as these individuals have already provided PCC covering that time in that country) versus what IRCC actually requires from citizenship applicants. No matter how strong the argument is about why there SHOULD be such an exception, what matters is whether or not IRCC actually recognizes such an exception.
There is nothing in the form, help, instructions in the Guide, the PDIs, or the FAQs, which even hints that IRCC recognizes such an exception.
This includes looking at older forms and instructions.
In particular, the following is simply NOT true (from post by NN74 and quoted in full above):
"My understanding is that, if we look at old forms where 6 yrs is mentioned, it clearly says 'or after becoming permanent resident.' So in new form, with last 4 years and if we add 'or becoming PR' the entire confusion would go away."
Again, this is not true. While numbered differently, this item was almost the same in the old forms as it is in the current form.
In the current form, it is item 10.b and it states:
In the past four (4) years, were you in another country (other than Canada) for a total of 183 days or more? [No] [Yes]
If yes, list each country in the chart below. You must provide a police certificate for each country where you have been present for 183 days or more. If you cannot get a police certificate, tell us why below.
The form then provides a box with two columns, one titled "Country" and the other titled "Explanation."
In the forms in use prior to October 11, 2017, going back to the June 2015 version which was the first version after the four year prohibition for convictions in other countries took effect (which was in late May 2015), the item was 6.M. and it stated:
In the past four (4) years, were you present in a country, other than Canada, for a total of 183 days or more?
[No] [Yes] - If you have checked "YES", indicate each country in the box below. You must provide police certificates for each country where you have been present for 183 days or more. If you cannot get a police certificate from a country, provide details in the box below.
Those forms provided just an open box.
Note that between the time (June 2015) when submitting police certificates first became part of the application form (attendant coming into force of the additional prohibition for foreign convictions), and October 11 (when new rules including the 3/5 rule came into effect), there was no possible factual scenario in which someone eligible for citizenship (under the then applicable 4/6 rules) would not be a PR for the entire four years preceding the date of application. The absolute minimum time as a PR was four years. So any reference to "or after becoming permanent resident" would have made no sense at all for this item at that time.
Moreover, An Overriding Clue:
By the way, the current citizenship application has all but eliminated restricting history questions referencing the time period "or after becoming a permanent resident." (There is still this distinction, of course, for purposes of calculating credit for time in Canada, but in nearly all other respects this is no longer a parameter for how to answer history items in the citizenship application.)
For example, the applicant must declare work history for the full five years prior to applying. Likewise address history. In the item for address history, emphasis (an underline) is added to the word "entire" in the instruction to provide addresses for "the entire eligibility period," the eligibility period being the full five years even for an applicant who first came to Canada and became a PR less than five years previous.
An applicant who landed in September 2014, for example, planning to apply December 3, 2017, must report addresses and work history going back to December 2012, even though that address and work history was accounted for in the PR visa application.
The instructions are actually quite redundant in referencing the need to cover the entire eligibility period, that is, the full five years, regardless when a person became a PR.
@NN74
Check out these official IRCC tweets on the matter:
https://twitter.com/CitImmCanada/status/920045422848233472
https://twitter.com/CitImmCanada/status/920045571301363712
https://twitter.com/CitImmCanada/status/920045625152098310
and the PC must have been issued AFTER you left the country. Not during your stay or before.
Probably disjunctive. That is, issued within six months OR issued after last time in the country.
The PDIs and online information about police certificates are almost entirely about submitting police certificates attendant a visa application, and can be off some regarding police certificates for citizenship applications.
Thus, for example, the basic information webpage, about "How to get a police certificate," starts with the following:
"When you apply to become a permanent resident or a Canadian citizen, you and your family members must include a police certificate."
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/intro.asp
In contrast, not everyone applying for citizenship must include a police certificate, and only family members who are applying for citizenship and who personally meet the criteria for submitting a certificate need to include a police certificate. (Whereas, for PR visa applicants, a police certificate must be submitted for all family members even those who are non-accompanying.)
The same web page states (regarding how current the certificate needs to be):
If you need a police certificate from a country or territory and:
- are currently living there, or received the police certificate before leaving, the police certificate must be issued within six months before you apply.
- have lived there in the past, the police certificate must be issued after you last lived in that country or territory.
Transposing the rules about how current the certificate should be into the citizenship application context, it is probably safe to say that the certificate should be one issued within six months OR issued after the last time the applicant was in that country.
Yes, if you have lived outside Canada for 6 months or more in the 4 years immediately before signing the application.
...and
...and these six months, or more precisely 183 days do not not have to be consecutively. So if you count all the days together that you spent in a specific country over the last four years and it comes to more than 183 days, yes you will need a pc.
dpenabill,
Thanks for your reply however fact is that old form (CIT002E-2) (dated 06-2017) point 6 L or M clearly says:
"In the six (6) years immediately before the date of your application or since you became a permanent resident, which ever is most recent."
Within this context, 4 years (out of 6) was actual required period (before bill C-6) to be eligible for citizenship. So the calculation was, if you are staying outside Canada for 183 days or more within those 6 years then you are required to submit a Police Certificate from respective country where you accumulated those 183 days..
In bill C-6, this became 3 years (out of 5 yrs), hence there's a correction needed in understanding for these situations:
1. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they have no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they neither traveled outside Canada nor stayed 183 days - they are technically NOT required to submit any PC for the period when they were outside.
2. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they have no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they traveled & lived outside (cumulative 183 days or more) - then they MUST submit a PC for the period when they were outside, which is 183 days.
Here comes a tricky situation:
3. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they had no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they traveled & lived outside (cumulative 120 days only) during their eligibility period - but they were outside Canada (assuming) for 5 months (151 days) before getting immigrant visa & landing, they are NOT required to submit Police Certificate even though they were outside Canada for more than 183 days i.e. 120+151 during their eligibility period.
This is what I pointed as all calculations for 183 days (stay outside) would start only when you started your ties with Canada. Probably the new form question should say ...within last 5 years or since when you became landed immigrant or started ties with Canada (as now student, worker, refuge are getting half-day credit for 2 yrs stay as 1 yr).
Hope you get my question now.
Thanks
Thanks for your reply however fact is that old form (CIT002E-2) (dated 06-2017) point 6 L or M clearly says:
"In the six (6) years immediately before the date of your application or since you became a permanent resident, which ever is most recent."
Within this context, 4 years (out of 6) was actual required period (before bill C-6) to be eligible for citizenship. So the calculation was, if you are staying outside Canada for 183 days or more within those 6 years then you are required to submit a Police Certificate from respective country where you accumulated those 183 days..
In bill C-6, this became 3 years (out of 5 yrs), hence there's a correction needed in understanding for these situations:
1. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they have no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they neither traveled outside Canada nor stayed 183 days - they are technically NOT required to submit any PC for the period when they were outside.
2. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they have no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they traveled & lived outside (cumulative 183 days or more) - then they MUST submit a PC for the period when they were outside, which is 183 days.
Here comes a tricky situation:
3. Those who came to Canada & their eligibility started before they became landed immigrant (assuming they had no tie up with Canada as student, worker, refuge etc. before) and they traveled & lived outside (cumulative 120 days only) during their eligibility period - but they were outside Canada (assuming) for 5 months (151 days) before getting immigrant visa & landing, they are NOT required to submit Police Certificate even though they were outside Canada for more than 183 days i.e. 120+151 during their eligibility period.
This is what I pointed as all calculations for 183 days (stay outside) would start only when you started your ties with Canada. Probably the new form question should say ...within last 5 years or since when you became landed immigrant or started ties with Canada (as now student, worker, refuge are getting half-day credit for 2 yrs stay as 1 yr).
Hope you get my question now.
Thanks
I do hope this is true. My job requires weekly travelling into the US. If the police certificate has to be issued after the last time I am in the US, I will either never be able to apply, or I have to quit my job
Anyone has experience with this?
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