Police Certificate requirement for countries where an individual spent 6+ months

[prabhjotmehrok]

Thanks for the advice

 

[dpenabill]

I would appreciate if someone can help me giving some advice. I sent application for citizenship last week and probably it is not delivered to CIC yet. I have lived in USA for more than 183 days cumulative in last 4 years but never continuously for more than 183 days and in my application I answered No instead of Yes. I can get Police clearance from USA. What shall I do about this?

I essentially agree with other posts.

There is nothing you can do until you receive AOR. This is not an error for which applications have been returned, even when it is apparent in the presence calculation travel declarations that the applicant spent more than 183 days total in another country.

Many make this mistake. IRCC so far appears to be generous in how it handles these errors notwithstanding how clearly the instructions and particularly the examples more than amply illustrate that it is the total number of days in a country, not consecutive days, that matters.

Better to be proactive. Obtain the U.S. clearance. After you have AOR and have a case file number, submit the clearance with a brief explanation of the error, acknowledge that item 10.b should have been checked "yes" and a police certificate for the U.S. submitted, and you are now submitting that clearance.

Hi all,

I need some clarification on this police certificate requirement. Here is the situation: my husband currently meets physical presence requirement as he has been living here for 3 out of five years this month. Prior to that he was in his home country. I see that CIC requires police certificate for 183 days of residence for the 4 year period during eligibility. Even though this was my husbands country of residence before immigrating, will he need a police certificate? This seems like overkill to me as he would not have been granted PR if he had a criminal record in the first place. Thank you.

Best approach: check "yes" for item 10.b and follow the instructions, which state to submit a police certificate.

It may indeed be overkill. Depending on the date of prior clearances submitted and date the applicant was last in the respective country. I suppose there are ways one could challenge IRCC about this policy, about what it requires from applicants, but that would likely take longer and be a lot more inconvenient than obtaining a police certificate, with less than good odds of even succeeding. Since there is a specific statutory prohibition for convictions in a foreign country occurring in the four years prior to applying for citizenship, a Federal Court will almost certainly conclude it is reasonable for IRCC to require proof of no convictions from applicants who have been in a foreign country a total of 183 days or more during that four year time period. Proof in the form of a police clearance from that country.

That said, some forum participants have expressed, with varying degrees of confidence (but low degrees of credibility, in my view), that IRCC will in effect waive the submission of a clearance in such circumstances, and a couple have even asserted it is IRCC policy or practice to not require clearances in these circumstances. The application form and accompanying instructions, however, are clearly to the contrary.

There is no doubt, in any event, about how to answer item 10.b The applicant adds up the total number of days the applicant was in a particular country during the four years preceding the date of the application, and if that totals 183 or more, the applicant needs to check "yes." To do otherwise is a misstatement of fact. (Item 10.b does not ask the applicant whether he or she needs to submit a police certificate; it asks a specific factual question, whether the applicant was in another country a total of 183 days within the preceding four years.)

The instructions for applicants who check "yes" are clear. The consensus is to follow the instructions. Submit a police certificate or explain why one cannot do that.

There are various approaches to this for those who have the view that IRCC should not, and will not require applicants to submit a police certificate, if the time they were in the other country pre-dated coming to Canada and becoming a PR. Generally I refrain from offering suggestions about how to pursue what, in my view, is a mistaken approach, but for this particular issue, given how persistent some have advocated the view that IRCC does not require a police certificate (without offering any practical suggestions about how to accurately respond to questions in the form and nonetheless escape the requirement to submit a clearance), some practical suggestions are warranted.

I have offered these observations before.

Those who elect to check "no" even though they were, in fact, in another country a total of 183 or more days during the preceding four years (in effect, not counting days prior to landing as a PR), should at least add a supplemental page explaining why they checked "no."

Those who elect to check "yes" (the factually accurate response) can list the country and explain that no police certificate is submitted because the time in that country was before becoming a PR.

And then see how it goes.

I do not anticipate big problems for those who do this. Just a longer process with a somewhat elevated risk of other non-routine processing. Perhaps some negative impact on IRCC's perception of the applicant's credibility.

The safest approach, as usual, is to follow the instructions.

 

[muhammad092]

Hi, I have my police certificate from my country. But the police certificate is till 2014? As I lived in my country till 2014. The police certificate is dated in October 2017, Will it make a difference? I hope my application doesnot get returned because of this.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi, I have my police certificate from my country. But the police certificate is till 2014? As I lived in my country till 2014. The police certificate is dated in October 2017, Will it make a difference? I hope my application doesnot get returned because of this.

If you checked "yes" for item 10.b in the application (which asks the applicant whether he or she was in another country a total of 183 or more days during the previous four years), listed the country, and included a police certificate from that country, this should NOT be a reason to return the application. The application is complete.

It is a separate issue whether or not, in the course of processing the application and assessing the various elements of it, including in particular item 10.b and prohibitions, the police certificate satisfies IRCC. If a valid police certificate covers the period of time the applicant was in the other country, that should suffice. Obviously, that is something which will depend on the particular facts (last time in that country, date of police certificate, for example).

While there are other possibilities, if for some reason IRCC is not satisfied with the police certificate, that would most likely result in IRCC requesting the applicant to provide an updated or more current application. It does not seem likely that IRCC will not be satisfied in this circumstance, so this probably is NOT a reason to worry.

In the meantime, IRCC can ask any applicant to provide a police certificate during the processing of the application, including an updated or more current police certificate if one has already been submitted. IRCC can ask applicants to submit a police certificate from any country the applicant spent any time in, that is including those who were in a country a lot fewer than 183 days total. A significant amount of time spent in a country recently, or while the application is pending, could trigger IRCC to ask for a police certificate. Obviously, if IRCC perceives any indication of criminal charges in another country, that is likely to trigger a request for a police certificate or an updated certificate.

The 183 day criteria merely determines who must acknowledge, in the application (item 10.b), having spent that much time in another country and submit a police certificate with the application. (Which you have done.) The substantive requirement itself is that the applicant not have any convictions in another country, none during the four years prior to applying, and none while the application is in process.

 

[muhammad092]

If you checked "yes" for item 10.b in the application (which asks the applicant whether he or she was in another country a total of 183 or more days during the previous four years), listed the country, and included a police certificate from that country, this should NOT be a reason to return the application. The application is complete.

It is a separate issue whether or not, in the course of processing the application and assessing the various elements of it, including in particular item 10.b and prohibitions, the police certificate satisfies IRCC. If a valid police certificate covers the period of time the applicant was in the other country, that should suffice. Obviously, that is something which will depend on the particular facts (last time in that country, date of police certificate, for example).

While there are other possibilities, if for some reason IRCC is not satisfied with the police certificate, that would most likely result in IRCC requesting the applicant to provide an updated or more current application. It does not seem likely that IRCC will not be satisfied in this circumstance, so this probably is NOT a reason to worry.

In the meantime, IRCC can ask any applicant to provide a police certificate during the processing of the application, including an updated or more current police certificate if one has already been submitted. IRCC can ask applicants to submit a police certificate from any country the applicant spent any time in, that is including those who were in a country a lot fewer than 183 days total. A significant amount of time spent in a country recently, or while the application is pending, could trigger IRCC to ask for a police certificate. Obviously, if IRCC perceives any indication of criminal charges in another country, that is likely to trigger a request for a police certificate or an updated certificate.

The 183 day criteria merely determines who must acknowledge, in the application (item 10.b), having spent that much time in another country and submit a police certificate with the application. (Which you have done.) The substantive requirement itself is that the applicant not have any convictions in another country, none during the four years prior to applying, and none while the application is in process.

Thankyou for the detailed post, what is advisable Police certificate till 2014 or till 2017?

 

[dpenabill]

what is advisable Police certificate till 2014 or till 2017?

I am no expert. I am NOT qualified to give personal advice. Moreover, even if I was qualified (again, I am NOT), a forum like this is not an appropriate forum for seeking or giving personal advice (despite the extent to which such advice is sought and given here).

I can offer general observations. A recently issued police certificate will almost certainly get the application past the completeness check. A valid police certificate which covers the period of time the applicant was in the other country during the preceding four years should suffice overall. Obviously, a valid and recently issued police certificate which covers the full four years has the best odds of satisfying IRCC.

If there has been travel to the other country during the relevant four years and outside what is covered in the police certificate, I do not know how IRCC will handle that situation. My guess is that it would depend in significant part on how much time the applicant spent in the other country which was outside the period covered by the police certificate. But that is more in the range of an informed guess. In this regard, again, IRCC can ask for an updated police certificate no matter how recent and thorough the one already provided is.

What to do is a personal judgment call. Factors to consider include how difficult or how long it would take to obtain a police certificate covering the full four years. Are there any compelling reasons to NOT wait. Is waiting no problem. How much time has been spent in that country in the meantime. Among others.

In any event, the application can be made with any valid police certificate, especially if on its face it covers most of the time the applicant was in the other country even if not all of it. Then it would be up to IRCC if they want the applicant to obtain an updated certificate, which should not cause much of a delay, not much more than the amount of time it would take to obtain the updated certificate and submit it.

One option might be to make the application and in the meantime go through the process of obtaining a more comprehensive police certificate, to have to submit later, with no delay, if IRCC requests such a certificate.

 

[muhammad092]

I am no expert. I am NOT qualified to give personal advice. Moreover, even if I was qualified (again, I am NOT), a forum like this is not an appropriate forum for seeking or giving personal advice (despite the extent to which such advice is sought and given here).

I can offer general observations. A recently issued police certificate will almost certainly get the application past the completeness check. A valid police certificate which covers the period of time the applicant was in the other country during the preceding four years should suffice overall. Obviously, a valid and recently issued police certificate which covers the full four years has the best odds of satisfying IRCC.

If there has been travel to the other country during the relevant four years and outside what is covered in the police certificate, I do not know how IRCC will handle that situation. My guess is that it would depend in significant part on how much time the applicant spent in the other country which was outside the period covered by the police certificate. But that is more in the range of an informed guess. In this regard, again, IRCC can ask for an updated police certificate no matter how recent and thorough the one already provided is.

What to do is a personal judgment call. Factors to consider include how difficult or how long it would take to obtain a police certificate covering the full four years. Are there any compelling reasons to NOT wait. Is waiting no problem. How much time has been spent in that country in the meantime. Among others.

In any event, the application can be made with any valid police certificate, especially if on its face it covers most of the time the applicant was in the other country even if not all of it. Then it would be up to IRCC if they want the applicant to obtain an updated certificate, which should not cause much of a delay, not much more than the amount of time it would take to obtain the updated certificate and submit it.

One option might be to make the application and in the meantime go through the process of obtaining a more comprehensive police certificate, to have to submit later, with no delay, if IRCC requests such a certificate.

Thankyou for the detailed reply .Thankyou so much.

 

[ateotia]

I have a question, my citizenship country is India and I have been a resident of Mauritius since 2012 october, I have received a 2nd ITA towards the end of October (1st application was rejected). My Indian PCC is dated June 18th 2017 and my Mauritian PCC is dated april 26th 2017. I understand my Mauritius PCC is beyond 6 months and have already applied for another PCC. My Indian PCC is less than 6 months validity and I have never lived in India since 2012, even though I visited many times. The latest I visited was september 2017 to October end 2017. Since the CIC website states that the PCC should be after I have LIVED in the country, should I be applying for another Indian PCC? I have been in employment in Mauritius itself during my visit so that itself proved that it was just a visit. I ask as applying for an Indian PCC from Mauritius would be another 45-50 day process to obtain.

Any advise from anyone is deeply appreciated.

Thank you

 

[PMM]

Hi

I have a question, my citizenship country is India and I have been a resident of Mauritius since 2012 october, I have received a 2nd ITA towards the end of October (1st application was rejected). My Indian PCC is dated June 18th 2017 and my Mauritian PCC is dated april 26th 2017. I understand my Mauritius PCC is beyond 6 months and have already applied for another PCC. My Indian PCC is less than 6 months validity and I have never lived in India since 2012, even though I visited many times. The latest I visited was september 2017 to October end 2017. Since the CIC website states that the PCC should be after I have LIVED in the country, should I be applying for another Indian PCC? I have been in employment in Mauritius itself during my visit so that itself proved that it was just a visit. I ask as applying for an Indian PCC from Mauritius would be another 45-50 day process to obtain.

Any advise from anyone is deeply appreciated.

Thank you

1. It depends, if you haven't been in India since June 18/17 then you don't require a new PCC.

"
Who needs a police certificate?
In general, you and all the people in your family who are 18 or older need to get a police certificate.

You may need a police certificate from any country or territory that you have spent six months or more since the age of 18.

For example: if you visited, worked or lived in a country for two months, left for a few years, then returned for four months, that counts as spending six months there. In this case, you would need a certificate.

If you need a police certificate from a country or territory and:

• are currently living there, or received the police certificate before leaving, the police certificate must be issued within six months before you apply.
• have lived there in the past, the police certificate must be issued after you last lived in that country or territory.

 

[dpenabill]

Observation: PMM has quoted the information for police certificates required when making a visa application.

There is no specific information about how current the police certificate needs to be for citizenship applications. Obviously, the part stating "the police certificate must be issued after you last lived in that country or territory" is NOT applicable, since a police certificate can be required of an applicant who NEVER lived in the other country where the individual spent a total of 183 days or more in a country over a four year period of time, recognizing just days now and then but adding up to a total of 183 or more will trigger the requirement to submit a passport.

That information nonetheless offers some guidance. A police certificate issued within the last six months should be OK. A police certificate issued since the LAST time the person was PRESENT in that country should be OK.

Beyond that there may be some flexibility, a somewhat older certificate may be OK even if the person has been in that country but only for a small number of days since the certificate was issued. But whether IRCC will be this flexible for certificates older than six months when submitted is not at all certain.

Best approach: certificate issued in last six months or since last time in the other country.

 

[ateotia]

Hi



1. It depends, if you haven't been in India since June 18/17 then you don't require a new PCC.

"
Who needs a police certificate?
In general, you and all the people in your family who are 18 or older need to get a police certificate.

You may need a police certificate from any country or territory that you have spent six months or more since the age of 18.

For example: if you visited, worked or lived in a country for two months, left for a few years, then returned for four months, that counts as spending six months there. In this case, you would need a certificate.

If you need a police certificate from a country or territory and:

• are currently living there, or received the police certificate before leaving, the police certificate must be issued within six months before you apply.
• have lived there in the past, the police certificate must be issued after you last lived in that country or territory.

Thank you for your reply. I did go through this earlier. If you see the example, they classify visited, worked and living as 3 different situations. When i travelled to India after June 18th it was a visit only. I have been living in mauritius since 2012 and each trip in between have only been visits to my parents. Additionally India is my citizenship/birth country. I am still in employment in mauritius even during the duration of my visit to india after june 18th

 

[ateotia]

Observation: PMM has quoted the information for police certificates required when making a visa application.

There is no specific information about how current the police certificate needs to be for citizenship applications. Obviously, the part stating "the police certificate must be issued after you last lived in that country or territory" is NOT applicable, since a police certificate can be required of an applicant who NEVER lived in the other country where the individual spent a total of 183 days or more in a country over a four year period of time, recognizing just days now and then but adding up to a total of 183 or more will trigger the requirement to submit a passport.

That information nonetheless offers some guidance. A police certificate issued within the last six months should be OK. A police certificate issued since the LAST time the person was PRESENT in that country should be OK.

Beyond that there may be some flexibility, a somewhat older certificate may be OK even if the person has been in that country but only for a small number of days since the certificate was issued. But whether IRCC will be this flexible for certificates older than six months when submitted is not at all certain.

Best approach: certificate issued in last six months or since last time in the other country.

thank you for your reply, yes the PCC is issued within the last 6 months, it is just that i was visiting my parents after the pcc was issued and the duration of the trip was almost 2 months. Nonethless i was still holding employment in Mauritius and my residence country is still Mauritius. I am only asking this as if i have to apply for another Indian PCC, it is a 45-50 day hassle.

 

[keesio]

Regarding this new rule - how does a partial day spent in a country count towards this rule? If my wife goes to visit the family in the US and she leaves friday night and comes back sunday night, how many days was she in the USA in regards to this above requirement? Does it mimic the current counting method that PR and Citizenship uses (any partial day spent in Canada counts as a day spent in Canada)? I'm going to guess "yes" and she would count 3 days in the USA but CIC should clear this up.

I posted this awhile back and I don't think it got a response. Does anyone have an idea on the above?

 

[uncomfortable]

I posted this awhile back and I don't think it got a response. Does anyone have an idea on the above?

It has been discussed several times in other threads - there is no official interpretation. People who have called the IRCC help line state they have received conflicting answer.
The safest approach is to adopt the most conservative definition, i.e. use the same definition that applies to days of presence in Canada, where if an individual is spending even just a fraction of a day in a given country, that day is counted as "day of presence" in that country

 

[keesio]

It has been discussed several times in other threads - there is no official interpretation. People who have called the IRCC help line state they have received conflicting answer.
The safest approach is to adopt the most conservative definition, i.e. use the same definition that applies to days of presence in Canada, where if an individual is spending even just a fraction of a day in a given country, that day is counted as "day of presence" in that country

Thanks. Yes, the conservative approach is what I am doing with my wife's application. Fortunately she is still under 183 days either way but the buffer is not as big.