Difference between two queries urgent

[moonarch]

wat is the difference between two questions

1, Has Applicant been refused refugee status, or an immigrant or permanent resident visa (including a Certificat de sélection du Québec (CSQ) or application to the Provincial nominee Program) or visitor or temporary resident visa, to Canada or any other country?

2, Has Applicant ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country?

plz advice...

 

[moonarch]

wat is the difference between two questions

1, Has Applicant been refused refugee status, or an immigrant or permanent resident visa (including a Certificat de sélection du Québec (CSQ) or application to the Provincial nominee Program) or visitor or temporary resident visa, to Canada or any other country?

2, Has Applicant ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country?

plz advice...

plzzz any one

 

[crescent_jam]

plzzz any one

I can only provide my own opinion and I'm no expert, but the first question seems a bit more limited than the second.
The first question is only in reference to refugee status, immigrant/permanent resident visas, or visitor/temporary resident visas?
The second question, on the other hand, is more broad - it mentions only 'visa or permit' which expands the category to things like student visas and work permits, and it also looks at whether you've also been denied entry or ordered to leave.

If you answer 'Yes' to question 1, then you would automatically answer 'Yes' to question 2, but since question 1 is more narrow than question 2, answering 'Yes' to question 2 wouldn't necessarily mean you answer 'Yes' to question 1. (E.g. if you were denied entry at a border, that doesn't mean you've been refused refugee status or a immigrant/permanent resident visa, or a temporary resident/visitor visa).

 

[moonarch]

I can only provide my own opinion and I'm no expert, but the first question seems a bit more limited than the second.
The first question is only in reference to refugee status, immigrant/permanent resident visas, or visitor/temporary resident visas?
The second question, on the other hand, is more broad - it mentions only 'visa or permit' which expands the category to things like student visas and work permits, and it also looks at whether you've also been denied entry or ordered to leave.

If you answer 'Yes' to question 1, then you would automatically answer 'Yes' to question 2, but since question 1 is more narrow than question 2, answering 'Yes' to question 2 wouldn't necessarily mean you answer 'Yes' to question 1. (E.g. if you were denied entry at a border, that doesn't mean you've been refused refugee status or a immigrant/permanent resident visa, or a temporary resident/visitor visa).

much appreciated

 

[moonarch]

wat is the difference between two questions

1, Has Applicant been refused refugee status, or an immigrant or permanent resident visa (including a Certificat de sélection du Québec (CSQ) or application to the Provincial nominee Program) or visitor or temporary resident visa, to Canada or any other country?

2, Has Applicant ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country?

plz advice...

Any other opinion plzz..??

 

[iamxty]

Any other opinion plzz..??

If you answer 'Yes' to question 1, then you would automatically answer 'Yes' to question 2, but since question 1 is more narrow than question 2, answering 'Yes' to question 2 wouldn't necessarily mean you answer 'Yes' to question 1. (E.g. if you were denied entry at a border, that doesn't mean you've been refused refugee status or a immigrant/permanent resident visa, or a temporary resident/visitor visa).

I think this is not correct. Question 2 is specifically for rejected visas or deportation cases.

I've answered 'Yes' to question #2 for a refused PR application but 'No' to question #2 #1 since the refusal of the PR application did not involve a denied visa as I still got a valid work permit visa in my country of residence and I was not ordered to leave the country.

 

[crescent_jam]

I think this is not correct. Question 2 is specifically for rejected visas or deportation cases.

I've answered 'Yes' to question #2 for a refused PR application but 'No' to question #2 since the refusal of the PR application did not involve a denied visa as I still got a valid work permit visa in my country of residence and I was not ordered to leave the country.

For clarification, did you mean you answered 'Yes' to question 1 and 'No' to question 2? You indicated question 2 for both in your response, inadvertently

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning though - question 1 and 2 both refer to refused visas, it's just that question 1 is more specific about the type of visa.

In your scenario, you would have answered 'Yes' to question 1 for a refused PR application, but a refused PR application means a refused PR visa (the one they stamp into passports for you to enter on before you officially land and become a PR). Even if you still received a valid work permit and weren't ordered to leave the country, it doesn't mean you weren't refused a visa (the PR visa)...

Perhaps the difference in reasoning is due to interpretation of the questions. I didn't interpret question 2 as an 'AND' scenario (i.e. you were refused a visa AND denied entry AND ordered to leave the country). I interpreted it as a 'OR' scenario. (i.e. you were refused a visa (any type) OR denied entry OR ordered to leave the country).

But again, this is my own interpretation of the two questions. Perhaps CIC needs to re-phrase them to make their queries a bit clearer for interpretation...

Oooh! Perhaps a legal expert like @legalfalcon can shed some light for us?

 

[iamxty]

I think this is not correct. Question 2 is specifically for rejected visas or deportation cases.

I've answered 'Yes' to question #2 for a refused PR application but 'No' to question #2 #1 since the refusal of the PR application did not involve a denied visa as I still got a valid work permit visa in my country of residence and I was not ordered to leave the country.

Edited as above.

In your scenario, you would have answered 'Yes' to question 1 for a refused PR application, but a refused PR application means a refused PR visa (the one they stamp into passports for you to enter on before you officially land and become a PR). Even if you still received a valid work permit and weren't ordered to leave the country, it doesn't mean you weren't refused a visa (the PR visa)...

I am only talking about PR application per se.

An approved PR application does not mean you already have a PR visa.

The approval of a PR application will just be in-principle until you send your passport for stamping (in Singapore, this is when you get your PR card with the multiple visa entry on it).

For Canada, if you received a PPR (your application is approved) and you did not send your passport for stamping, you will not have the COPR (PR visa) in your passport and you can't travel to Canada as a PR.

So, if you have a rejected/refused Canada PR application, answer to #1 is 'Yes', but 'No' to #2.

That is the logic I understood for PR application. And same goes for refusal.

I only quoted this because it does not apply for all cases:
If you answer 'Yes' to question 1, then you would automatically answer 'Yes' to question 2

Another example for question #1 is the CSQ (Quebec) - a rejected CSQ application does not mean you are denied a Quebec visa (which does not exist because you'll still need to go through Canada Federal application to have the PR visa). A rejected PNP application has no visa related to it as well.

However, for different visa applications like student visa, work permit or visit visa, both questions should be answered with 'Yes'.

I hope I clarified my point.

 

[crescent_jam]

Edited as above.



I am only talking about PR application per se.

An approved PR application does not mean you already have a PR visa.

The approval of a PR application will just be in-principle until you send your passport for stamping (in Singapore, this is when you get your PR card with the multiple visa entry on it).

For Canada, if you received a PPR (your application is approved) and you did not send your passport for stamping, you will not have the COPR (PR visa) in your passport and you can't travel to Canada as a PR.

That is the logic I understood for PR application. And same goes for refusal.

I only quoted this because it does not apply for all cases:
If you answer 'Yes' to question 1, then you would automatically answer 'Yes' to question 2

Another example for question #1 is the CSQ (Quebec) - a rejected CSQ application does not mean you are denied a Quebec visa (which does not exist because you'll still need to go through Canada Federal application to have the PR visa). A rejected PNP application has no visa related to it as well.

However, for different visa applications like student visa, work permit or visit visa, both questions should be answered with 'Yes'.

I hope I clarified my point.

Yes, I think I understand your reasoning a bit more now.

I think our points of difference are with regard to an application and a visa being the 'same' for purposes of interpreting question 2.

For question 1, CIC is clearer. The 'are you considering an application and a visa to be the same thing'? argument is clarified by the fact that CIC specifically stated 'including a CSQ or application to the PNP' after stating 'immigrant or permanent resident visa'. They don't do this for question 2 but I have made the assumption that their classifications and consideration of 'applications' being in the group as 'visas' as outlined in question 1, extends to question 2.

In my mind, even though it wasn't explicitly stated in question 2 as it was in 1, I think CIC is equating 'application' to be in the same group as 'visa'. Semantics aside, from a logical perspective, your application being refused means a visa being refused (because, even though both are 'technically' separate, you can't get the visa without the application, and the point of the application is ultimately the visa).

But it would still be nice to get a Legal Expert's opinion on the matter.

Without a Legal Expert's weighing in on the matter, though, I think the safer bet would be to assume that 'application is the same as visa' and answer 'Yes' to both questions if applicable, under this assumption, then provide clarification in an LOE...

 

[iamxty]

Yes, I think I understand your reasoning a bit more now.

I think our points of difference are with regard to an application and a visa being the 'same' for purposes of interpreting question 2.

For question 1, CIC is clearer. The 'are you considering an application and a visa to be the same thing'? argument is clarified by the fact that CIC specifically stated 'including a CSQ or application to the PNP' after stating 'immigrant or permanent resident visa'. They don't do this for question 2 but I have made the assumption that their classifications and consideration of 'applications' being in the group as 'visas' as outlined in question 1, extends to question 2.

In my mind, even though it wasn't explicitly stated in question 2 as it was in 1, I think CIC is equating 'application' to be in the same group as 'visa'. Semantics aside, from a logical perspective, your application being refused means a visa being refused (because, even though both are 'technically' separate, you can't get the visa without the application, and the point of the application is ultimately the visa).

But it would still be nice to get a Legal Expert's opinion on the matter.

Without a Legal Expert's weighing in on the matter, though, I think the safer bet would be to assume that 'application is the same as visa' and answer 'Yes' to both questions if applicable, under this assumption, then provide clarification in an LOE...

No worries, we all made our point.