Bill C-6, Messages between the HoC and the Senate, FACTS ONLY

[Whocares]

I already said 1,000,000,000,000,000 times that it is common for the Senate to accept the HoC compromise. For a percentage, you would first have to precisely define how you categorize bills and then go through the past decisions of the Senate and produce a spreadsheet. It's not baseball where there is stats for everything.

So what happened ? I went to farmers market bought fish and chicken. Did they vote for the amendments?

 

[VFX_man]

So what happened ? I went to farmers market bought fish and chicken. Did they vote for the amendments?

They decided, you can buy Chicken or Fish. But not at the same time and can only eat them 4/6 days a week, but are discussing allowing you to have them 3/5 days.

 

[Whocares]

They decided, you can buy Chicken or Fish. But not at the same time and can only eat them 4/6 days a week, but are discussing allowing you to have them 3/5 days.

That is good news. Thank you buddy. I am sure the senate will accept the amendments because the minor clause was not rejected.

 

[ozymandias]

I already said 1,000,000,000,000,000 times that it is common for the Senate to accept the HoC compromise. For a percentage, you would first have to precisely define how you categorize bills and then go through the past decisions of the Senate and produce a spreadsheet. It's not baseball where there is stats for everything.

@spyfy That's not possible, this thread has only 199 posts including this one, if all of them were yours, you would have needed to say it over 5,000,000,000,000 in each post, there aren't that many words in this forum; remember as the founding father(s?) of this thread have reminded us numerous times, this is a FACTS ONLY thread.

 

[kilamans]

They decided, you can buy Chicken or Fish. But not at the same time and can only eat them 4/6 days a week, but are discussing allowing you to have them 3/5 days.

if you dont mind, can you explain clearly or any link that has this discussion

 

[nidee]

@spyfy That's not possible, this thread has only 199 posts including this one, if all of them were yours, you would have needed to say it over 5,000,000,000,000 in each post, there aren't that many letters in this forum; remember as the founding father(s?) of this thread have reminded us numerous times, this is a FACTS ONLY thread.

Oh no, you didn't
<<you do realise you were talking to the #1 and only founding father of the thread>> LMAO

BTW @spyfy, I have been a silent follower of your updates and I just want to say thanks for the wonderful job you have done.

 

[Chuc]

Hi to All,
I've been a silent follower for a long period of time now and I do enjoy the dynamic of this Thread.
I hope the best to all the ones anxiously waiting the bill c-6 RA.
Spyfy , thanks a lot for keeping things clear and factual as well ..
don`t stress a lot and follow the bill closely , relax and enjoy the Canadian summer guys ..peace

 

[Whocares]

Spyfy also helps people in other threads. There is also somone who writes really long posts, he is a great man. I want to thank them both.

 

[uncomfortable]

So after this eventful day, we are back to the Senate with a list of "amended" Amendments.
Since we don't know what they are going to say, we need to understand when they are going to discuss the message from the HoC. There is no Projected Order of Business for Senate, but what kind of priority do Messages from HoC hold in the Senate's day-to-day work?

 

[dpenabill]

Sticking to the facts, while it may be true that the Senate almost always adopts the HoC amendments of Senate amendments, it is also the fact that the vast majority of Bills are approved by the Senate without amendment. The latter is NOT how it went for Bill C-6. Historical trends offer little or NO assurance that this is going to go smoothly in the Senate, that this legislation will be adopted in its current form.

One could forecast that is the more likely outcome, to wander beyond the parameters of what is fact.

But that is speculation, especially considering there is little historical precedent for a Senate with the make-up of the current Senate.

To stick to the facts, this legislation is NOT yet law and there is still no guarantee it will become law. There is still some vociferous opposition to this Bill, much of which appears to be as rooted in trying to make the Liberals fail as it is about differences in opinions on the merits.

I will not attempt to guess how things will go in the Senate.

What I wonder, however, is whether the filibuster-style speech (more than two and a half hours of rambling diatribe very little of which was about Bill C-6 or citizenship) last night by Conservative MP Michelle Rempel was an isolated one-off last-ditch effort to further stall and distract and divert, a disingenuous speech rife with hypocrisy and more than a few outright deceptions (citing the Audit report about how long it took the government, seven years as I recall, to identify fraud related to a single residential address used by some 50 applicants as if to illustrate the Liberal government was failing to address fraud, even though that happened during the nine years when Harper was PM, just as one example). Or will there be Conservative Senators who pick up and continue to carry the obstructionist torch . . . and if so, how long how far?

Bottom-line, fact is this is NOT a done deal. Nonetheless, we should see, relatively soon, how this is going to go. To be clear, probabilities are a kind of fact. At this stage, however, the odds do not mean much. What happens in the Senate in the next week or perhaps a little more will tell the tale.

If before the summer break the Senate does accept the HoC changes, then Bill C-6 will be fully adopted and will promptly receive Royal Assent. If this does not happen, bets are off. In other words, while not scratched in stone, the odds are that either Bill C-6 will be law this month or its future will be rather up in the air.

 

[spyfy]

If you take bills that:

• Originated in the House of Commons
• Were Passed by the House of Commons
• Were then amended by the Senate and sent back to the House of Commons

(Which is exactly what happened to Bill C-6) then, since the confederation of Canada there are 30 such bills that didn't pass. Again: Thirty. Bills. Since. The. Confederation. Of. The. Dominion. Of. Canada.

That is such a small number it is basically negligible. Many of these failed bills weren't even government bills.

In fact, C-6 is already one stage further. It cleared the House of Commons again. Unfortunately the online databases don't allow to filter those bills. So the number we have to consider is even smaller.

This figure of 30 bills includes at least seven bills that didn't receive royal assent because the passage of the bill was left at "Her Majesty's Pleasure" by parliament, i.e. back when Royal Assent was actually not always to give, which is not a thing anymore.

I am not talking about if it will pass before the summer break or if it will take some more time. But, and I am saying that it is a fact that a bill failing at this stage is one of the rarest occasions in the Canadian legislative history.

 

[Whocares]

Sticking to the facts, while it may be true that the Senate almost always adopts the HoC amendments of Senate amendments, it is also the fact that the vast majority of Bills are approved by the Senate without amendment. The latter is NOT how it went for Bill C-6. Historical trends offer little or NO assurance that this is going to go smoothly in the Senate, that this legislation will be adopted in its current form.

One could forecast that is the more likely outcome, to wander beyond the parameters of what is fact.

But that is speculation, especially considering there is little historical precedent for a Senate with the make-up of the current Senate.

To stick to the facts, this legislation is NOT yet law and there is still no guarantee it will become law. There is still some vociferous opposition to this Bill, much of which appears to be as rooted in trying to make the Liberals fail as it is about differences in opinions on the merits.

I will not attempt to guess how things will go in the Senate.

What I wonder, however, is whether the filibuster-style speech (more than two and a half hours of rambling diatribe very little of which was about Bill C-6 or citizenship) last night by Conservative MP Michelle Rempel was an isolated one-off last-ditch effort to further stall and distract and divert, a disingenuous speech rife with hypocrisy and more than a few outright deceptions (citing the Audit report about how long it took the government, seven years as I recall, to identify fraud related to a single residential address used by some 50 applicants as if to illustrate the Liberal government was failing to address fraud, even though that happened during the nine years when Harper was PM, just as one example). Or will there be Conservative Senators who pick up and continue to carry the obstructionist torch . . . and if so, how long how far?

Bottom-line, fact is this is NOT a done deal. Nonetheless, we should see, relatively soon, how this is going to go. To be clear, probabilities are a kind of fact. At this stage, however, the odds do not mean much. What happens in the Senate in the next week or perhaps a little more will tell the tale.

If before the summer break the Senate does accept the HoC changes, then Bill C-6 will be fully adopted and will promptly receive Royal Assent. If this does not happen, bets are off. In other words, while not scratched in stone, the odds are that either Bill C-6 will be law this month or its future will be rather up in the air.

The big question is, can the liberal and independent senators request a vote within 2-3 sittings so they can vote yes as they did when the amended bill was passed in the first place at the senate?

 

[rmorgan]

Bill C-6 is on the Orders of the Day for consideration today in the Senate:

https://sencanada.ca/en/content/sen/chamber/421/orderpaper/132op_2017-06-14-e

 

[_MK_]

Also senate is also agreeing to the rejections of its amendments by the HoC for Bill C-4. Although C-4 is completely different, it does provide a model for how things could proceed. It will likely take a few sitting days to discuss and then to vote.

 

[spiritsoul]

FACTs only please!!

This has turned to a chatter box same as the other threads!!