applying for PRTD after a44 report has been overcome.

[MahSh]

applying for PRTD with already approved H&C grounds and closed A44 Report.

I am currently outside Canada and recently received communication from my case processing officer via email that my A44 report had been closed and that i get to keep my PR status based on H&C grounds. The report was initially issued in 2019 and decision came in March 2024 after CIC asked for updated information regarding current whereabouts in Sept 2023. I have not been in Canada since 5 years and the officer is aware. He has told me to apply for a PRTD so i can come back. There are 3 categories to apply for a PRTD, and the one that seems most applicable to me is H&C grounds. However it seems that would involve reassessing my status when a positive determination has already been made.

How should i go about this? If anyone has any experience that they can share and and would help me, that would be great.

 

[scylla]

Yes, you need to apply for the PRTD under H&C. This is a separate application and you need to make an argument and provide evidence to support the H&C case.

 

[MahSh]

Yes, you need to apply for the PRTD under H&C. This is a separate application and you need to make an argument and provide evidence to support the H&C case.

the officer that made the positive decision from inside Canada already knows that i haven’t been in canada since a while. Isn’t the canadian officer’s decision sufficient to obtain a PRTD? Would it be safe to just make a cover letter based on the evidence that i submitted to the officer and the email i received regarding my decision?

 

[armoured]

the officer that made the positive decision from inside Canada already knows that i haven’t been in canada since a while. Isn’t the canadian officer’s decision sufficient to obtain a PRTD? Would it be safe to just make a cover letter based on the evidence that i submitted to the officer and the email i received regarding my decision?

You can refer to the other decision you received and attach copies/list the same information. My understanding is that once an H&C determination has been made, that should be on record. Include the correspondence where you were instructed to apply for a PRTD.

Note: I'm assuming nothing significant has changed in your circusmtances since the H&C determination was made, etc., which it doesn't sound like it, but then, I also wouldn't be in a position to know.

 

[canuck78]

applying for PRTD with already approved H&C grounds and closed A44 Report.

I am currently outside Canada and recently received communication from my case processing officer via email that my A44 report had been closed and that i get to keep my PR status based on H&C grounds. The report was initially issued in 2019 and decision came in March 2024 after CIC asked for updated information regarding current whereabouts in Sept 2023. I have not been in Canada since 5 years and the officer is aware. He has told me to apply for a PRTD so i can come back. There are 3 categories to apply for a PRTD, and the one that seems most applicable to me is H&C grounds. However it seems that would involve reassessing my status when a positive determination has already been made.

How should i go about this? If anyone has any experience that they can share and and would help me, that would be great.

Do you have a US visa?

 

[MahSh]

You can refer to the other decision you received and attach copies/list the same information. My understanding is that once an H&C determination has been made, that should be on record. Include the correspondence where you were instructed to apply for a PRTD.

Note: I'm assuming nothing significant has changed in your circusmtances since the H&C determination was made, etc., which it doesn't sound like it, but then, I also wouldn't be in a position to know.

No nothing has changed. I received my decision only 2-3 days ago. However, the main grounds on which the positive determination was made i.e, removed from canada as a minor (i was also a minor when the a44 was issued) is now widely getting rejected in H&C PRTDs so that is why im concerned. Shouldn’t the minister’s delegate’s decision be enough to overrule any concerns any other officer may have while issuing me a PRTD?

 

[MahSh]

Do you have a US visa?

yes i do.

 

[armoured]

No nothing has changed. I received my decision only 2-3 days ago. However, the main grounds on which the positive determination was made i.e, removed from canada as a minor (i was also a minor when the a44 was issued) is now widely getting rejected in H&C PRTDs so that is why im concerned. Shouldn’t the minister’s delegate’s decision be enough to overrule any concerns any other officer may have while issuing me a PRTD?

Keep in mind we don't know the full circumstances. My gut/base reaction is as before: if an H&C determination was made, and it's that recent, and you were told to apply for a PRTD, I don't think it's a trick and you should do so.

I'm therefore only suggesting that you make it clear that you are applying for a PRTD on H&C grounds, and that an H&C determination has already been made. Show this is so by providing the documentation you have.

Background is, I assume, that you were issued a 44(1) report and appealed it, but left while that was in process. That's somewhat unusual (many/most would stay) but again - I don't think they're playing games with you. They told you to apply for a PRTD and you should. When you do, it will be immediately obvious that the H&C determination is the only basis on which you would be eligible for a PRTD anyway.

 

[MahSh]

Keep in mind we don't know the full circumstances. My gut/base reaction is as before: if an H&C determination was made, and it's that recent, and you were told to apply for a PRTD, I don't think it's a trick and you should do so.

I'm therefore only suggesting that you make it clear that you are applying for a PRTD on H&C grounds, and that an H&C determination has already been made. Show this is so by providing the documentation you have.

Background is, I assume, that you were issued a 44(1) report and appealed it, but left while that was in process. That's somewhat unusual (many/most would stay) but again - I don't think they're playing games with you. They told you to apply for a PRTD and you should. When you do, it will be immediately obvious that the H&C determination is the only basis on which you would be eligible for a PRTD anyway.

yeah the report was issued in june 2019 while i was 15. I left with my parents back to my home country and in 2023 they contacted us for additional/updated information including current whereabouts. Did the needful and got the positive determination via email a few days ago.

I was thinking that rather than attaching an H&C grounds request letter, i provide a letter of explanation instead?

 

[Ronnie1970]

Then why prtd.. take the letter and go to the border by private car.. along with your expired PR card

yes i do.

 

[dpenabill]

applying for PRTD with already approved H&C grounds and closed A44 Report.

I am currently outside Canada and recently received communication from my case processing officer via email that my A44 report had been closed and that i get to keep my PR status based on H&C grounds. The report was initially issued in 2019 and decision came in March 2024 after CIC asked for updated information regarding current whereabouts in Sept 2023. I have not been in Canada since 5 years and the officer is aware. He has told me to apply for a PRTD so i can come back. There are 3 categories to apply for a PRTD, and the one that seems most applicable to me is H&C grounds. However it seems that would involve reassessing my status when a positive determination has already been made.

How should i go about this? If anyone has any experience that they can share and and would help me, that would be great.

yeah the report was issued in june 2019 while i was 15. I left with my parents back to my home country and in 2023 they contacted us for additional/updated information including current whereabouts. Did the needful and got the positive determination via email a few days ago.

I was thinking that rather than attaching an H&C grounds request letter, i provide a letter of explanation instead?

Your situation is both very unusual and tricky. It is likely NO ONE here can offer informed advice about what is the best approach for YOU. (No one here includes me of course.)

Most of what others have offered, above, makes sense generally. But whether that is what is the best approach for you in this unusual situation, perhaps nearly unique or at least rare situation, I doubt anyone here can reliably say.

That said, if the 44(1) Report has been set aside by the IAD (which seems to be the case, although that is not entirely clear), you are still a Permanent Resident. Which means if you show up at a Port-of-Entry on the U.S. border, you will for sure be able to enter Canada. Worst case scenario is you are again subject to inadmissibility proceedings, that is potentially subject to a 44(1) Report followed by a Removal Order, which you would have to appeal again (with good to very good odds, it appears, that would be successful).

My guess, perhaps less a guess and more my impression, is that you will NOT be subject to inadmissibility proceedings upon your arrival at the PoE. But again, the worst case scenario is that you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings, so you appeal, and the positive H&C decision already made in your favour is likely to dictate a favourable outcome before the IAD.

So, I lean in the direction suggested by @Ronnie1970 . . . if you can travel to the U.S., make the trip (the sooner the better), take land transportation to the border, and that will get you INTO Canada. Your communications with IRCC showing your name and client identification number, in conjunction with your passport, should be sufficient for border officials to positively identify you and your PR status.

This is not to advise against making a PR TD application so you can fly directly to Canada. If you are still just 19 years old, or even 20, that alone is likely to be a big positive H&C factor even apart from this positive H&C outcome. You say that PRs "removed from canada as a minor . . . is now widely getting rejected in H&C PRTDs." I doubt that is broadly true, however, but rather it likely DEPENDS on the particular circumstances in the individual case. For example, many who apply for a PR TD relying on H&C relief based on having been "removed" as a minor were not well established in Canada, never actually being settled and living permanently in Canada, so not actually "removed."

That is, just how positive a H&C factor there is, in cases involving PRs removed from Canada as minors, can and will vary depending on the particular individual's case. Less time in Canada, hurts. Longer since last in Canada, hurts. Longer it has been since the PR is effectively an adult (which can be before they are 21), hurts. But having been removed while a minor, and making the effort to return to Canada soon after becoming an adult, is still among the most positive H&C factors tending to support relief and being allowed to keep PR status.

All that said, in regards to making a PR TD application, I am more than a little skeptical about the efficacy of a PR TD application. The advice to apply for a PR TD, after all, is the generic, FAQ type advice IRCC would give to any PR outside Canada who does not have a valid PR card. It does not suggest, let alone assure, that a visa office will approve the application and issue a PR TD. Leading this back to the suggestion that travel to the U.S. and then to the Canadian border is perhaps the better approach . . . with the caveat that, in addition to the fact I am NO expert, it is likely NO ONE here, including me, can offer reliable advice about what is the best approach for YOU.

Notes Re How Unusual the Situation Is:

Not just recently, but for a long time IRCC (affirmed by the IAD) has made decisions terminating the PR status of minors for not being in compliance with the RO. These are cases typically in conjunction with a parent's case. Which is to suggest that your successful outcome maybe something of an anomaly itself. Not easy to verify, but it has seemed that it is better for a minor who has been outside Canada for many years to wait until they are 18 and make an independent application for H&C relief, as a PR removed while a minor, than to attempt to return to Canada before they are 18 attendant parents in breach of the RO. Additionally the timeline in your case is outside norms.

There are also some potential anomalies as well, depending on the underlying procedure. The more common scenario is that your positive decision is the result of an appeal and the IAD setting aside the 44(1) Report, a 44(1) Report prepared attendant a Port-of-Entry examination resulting in a Removal Order. It is uncommon but there can be cases in which the 44(1) Report itself remains outstanding for lengthy time periods. It is not clear from what you have shared if your positive outcome is a decision by the IAD setting aside the Report (the typical scenario where there is a positive outcome), or a long pending 44(1) Report which has finally been reviewed by an officer acting as a Minister's Delegate in your favour (not common, especially given this timeline, but possibly).

 

[armoured]

I was thinking that rather than attaching an H&C grounds request letter, i provide a letter of explanation instead?

I don't know there is a significant difference between these two. You will, by default in your case, have to mark the H&C part of the form.

Note/editadd: I would tend to agree with the point that if you can enter through the USA, that may have lower risk of issues coming up.

And similar caveat to what @dpenabill noted: I have my guess/intuition of what's going on, described above, but not certain. No one likely could be perfectly certain. Hence the USA route, if available, may well be superior.

There's a separate side/thread/issue to this which is what services you will have access to, how quickly you may be able to get a PR card, whether you have a SIN, etc. But one q at a time.

 

[MahSh]

Your situation is both very unusual and tricky. It is likely NO ONE here can offer informed advice about what is the best approach for YOU. (No one here includes me of course.)

Most of what others have offered, above, makes sense generally. But whether that is what is the best approach for you in this unusual situation, perhaps nearly unique or at least rare situation, I doubt anyone here can reliably say.

That said, if the 44(1) Report has been set aside by the IAD (which seems to be the case, although that is not entirely clear), you are still a Permanent Resident. Which means if you show up at a Port-of-Entry on the U.S. border, you will for sure be able to enter Canada. Worst case scenario is you are again subject to inadmissibility proceedings, that is potentially subject to a 44(1) Report followed by a Removal Order, which you would have to appeal again (with good to very good odds, it appears, that would be successful).

My guess, perhaps less a guess and more my impression, is that you will NOT be subject to inadmissibility proceedings upon your arrival at the PoE. But again, the worst case scenario is that you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings, so you appeal, and the positive H&C decision already made in your favour is likely to dictate a favourable outcome before the IAD.

So, I lean in the direction suggested by @Ronnie1970 . . . if you can travel to the U.S., make the trip (the sooner the better), take land transportation to the border, and that will get you INTO Canada. Your communications with IRCC showing your name and client identification number, in conjunction with your passport, should be sufficient for border officials to positively identify you and your PR status.

This is not to advise against making a PR TD application so you can fly directly to Canada. If you are still just 19 years old, or even 20, that alone is likely to be a big positive H&C factor even apart from this positive H&C outcome. You say that PRs "removed from canada as a minor . . . is now widely getting rejected in H&C PRTDs." I doubt that is broadly true, however, but rather it likely DEPENDS on the particular circumstances in the individual case. For example, many who apply for a PR TD relying on H&C relief based on having been "removed" as a minor were not well established in Canada, never actually being settled and living permanently in Canada, so not actually "removed."

That is, just how positive a H&C factor there is, in cases involving PRs removed from Canada as minors, can and will vary depending on the particular individual's case. Less time in Canada, hurts. Longer since last in Canada, hurts. Longer it has been since the PR is effectively an adult (which can be before they are 21), hurts. But having been removed while a minor, and making the effort to return to Canada soon after becoming an adult, is still among the most positive H&C factors tending to support relief and being allowed to keep PR status.

All that said, in regards to making a PR TD application, I am more than a little skeptical about the efficacy of a PR TD application. The advice to apply for a PR TD, after all, is the generic, FAQ type advice IRCC would give to any PR outside Canada who does not have a valid PR card. It does not suggest, let alone assure, that a visa office will approve the application and issue a PR TD. Leading this back to the suggestion that travel to the U.S. and then to the Canadian border is perhaps the better approach . . . with the caveat that, in addition to the fact I am NO expert, it is likely NO ONE here, including me, can offer reliable advice about what is the best approach for YOU.

Notes Re How Unusual the Situation Is:

Not just recently, but for a long time IRCC (affirmed by the IAD) has made decisions terminating the PR status of minors for not being in compliance with the RO. These are cases typically in conjunction with a parent's case. Which is to suggest that your successful outcome maybe something of an anomaly itself. Not easy to verify, but it has seemed that it is better for a minor who has been outside Canada for many years to wait until they are 18 and make an independent application for H&C relief, as a PR removed while a minor, than to attempt to return to Canada before they are 18 attendant parents in breach of the RO. Additionally the timeline in your case is outside norms.

There are also some potential anomalies as well, depending on the underlying procedure. The more common scenario is that your positive decision is the result of an appeal and the IAD setting aside the 44(1) Report, a 44(1) Report prepared attendant a Port-of-Entry examination resulting in a Removal Order. It is uncommon but there can be cases in which the 44(1) Report itself remains outstanding for lengthy time periods. It is not clear from what you have shared if your positive outcome is a decision by the IAD setting aside the Report (the typical scenario where there is a positive outcome), or a long pending 44(1) Report which has finally been reviewed by an officer acting as a Minister's Delegate in your favour (not common, especially given this timeline, but possibly).

It is the result of a long pending A44 report. There was no appeal hearing. The report was issued in 2019 when i was 15 and there had been no updates since September 2023 when we were asked for updates. Did the needful and i was told that a positive determination had been made in my case via email.

 

[MahSh]

I don't know there is a significant difference between these two. You will, by default in your case, have to mark the H&C part of the form.

Note/editadd: I would tend to agree with the point that if you can enter through the USA, that may have lower risk of issues coming up.

And similar caveat to what @dpenabill noted: I have my guess/intuition of what's going on, described above, but not certain. No one likely could be perfectly certain. Hence the USA route, if available, may well be superior.

There's a separate side/thread/issue to this which is what services you will have access to, how quickly you may be able to get a PR card, whether you have a SIN, etc. But one q at a time.

Your situation is both very unusual and tricky. It is likely NO ONE here can offer informed advice about what is the best approach for YOU. (No one here includes me of course.)

Most of what others have offered, above, makes sense generally. But whether that is what is the best approach for you in this unusual situation, perhaps nearly unique or at least rare situation, I doubt anyone here can reliably say.

That said, if the 44(1) Report has been set aside by the IAD (which seems to be the case, although that is not entirely clear), you are still a Permanent Resident. Which means if you show up at a Port-of-Entry on the U.S. border, you will for sure be able to enter Canada. Worst case scenario is you are again subject to inadmissibility proceedings, that is potentially subject to a 44(1) Report followed by a Removal Order, which you would have to appeal again (with good to very good odds, it appears, that would be successful).

My guess, perhaps less a guess and more my impression, is that you will NOT be subject to inadmissibility proceedings upon your arrival at the PoE. But again, the worst case scenario is that you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings, so you appeal, and the positive H&C decision already made in your favour is likely to dictate a favourable outcome before the IAD.

So, I lean in the direction suggested by @Ronnie1970 . . . if you can travel to the U.S., make the trip (the sooner the better), take land transportation to the border, and that will get you INTO Canada. Your communications with IRCC showing your name and client identification number, in conjunction with your passport, should be sufficient for border officials to positively identify you and your PR status.

This is not to advise against making a PR TD application so you can fly directly to Canada. If you are still just 19 years old, or even 20, that alone is likely to be a big positive H&C factor even apart from this positive H&C outcome. You say that PRs "removed from canada as a minor . . . is now widely getting rejected in H&C PRTDs." I doubt that is broadly true, however, but rather it likely DEPENDS on the particular circumstances in the individual case. For example, many who apply for a PR TD relying on H&C relief based on having been "removed" as a minor were not well established in Canada, never actually being settled and living permanently in Canada, so not actually "removed."

That is, just how positive a H&C factor there is, in cases involving PRs removed from Canada as minors, can and will vary depending on the particular individual's case. Less time in Canada, hurts. Longer since last in Canada, hurts. Longer it has been since the PR is effectively an adult (which can be before they are 21), hurts. But having been removed while a minor, and making the effort to return to Canada soon after becoming an adult, is still among the most positive H&C factors tending to support relief and being allowed to keep PR status.

All that said, in regards to making a PR TD application, I am more than a little skeptical about the efficacy of a PR TD application. The advice to apply for a PR TD, after all, is the generic, FAQ type advice IRCC would give to any PR outside Canada who does not have a valid PR card. It does not suggest, let alone assure, that a visa office will approve the application and issue a PR TD. Leading this back to the suggestion that travel to the U.S. and then to the Canadian border is perhaps the better approach . . . with the caveat that, in addition to the fact I am NO expert, it is likely NO ONE here, including me, can offer reliable advice about what is the best approach for YOU.

Notes Re How Unusual the Situation Is:

Not just recently, but for a long time IRCC (affirmed by the IAD) has made decisions terminating the PR status of minors for not being in compliance with the RO. These are cases typically in conjunction with a parent's case. Which is to suggest that your successful outcome maybe something of an anomaly itself. Not easy to verify, but it has seemed that it is better for a minor who has been outside Canada for many years to wait until they are 18 and make an independent application for H&C relief, as a PR removed while a minor, than to attempt to return to Canada before they are 18 attendant parents in breach of the RO. Additionally the timeline in your case is outside norms.

There are also some potential anomalies as well, depending on the underlying procedure. The more common scenario is that your positive decision is the result of an appeal and the IAD setting aside the 44(1) Report, a 44(1) Report prepared attendant a Port-of-Entry examination resulting in a Removal Order. It is uncommon but there can be cases in which the 44(1) Report itself remains outstanding for lengthy time periods. It is not clear from what you have shared if your positive outcome is a decision by the IAD setting aside the Report (the typical scenario where there is a positive outcome), or a long pending 44(1) Report which has finally been reviewed by an officer acting as a Minister's Delegate in your favour (not common, especially given this timeline, but possibly).

I’d also like to add that I am returning to attend UofT for my bachelors. This is also one of the basis upon which i made my argument to retain PR and the case officer even knows that i have been accepted and currently in the process of enrolment

 

[dpenabill]

@MahSh . . . if you elect to proceed by making a PR TD application, you will be relying on H&C relief since you clearly are not in compliance with the Residency Obligation. I cannot offer much about how to present your H&C case, including presenting the outcome of the 44(1) Report review very recently determining that you should be allowed to keep PR status for H&C reasons. The manner in which you present your case probably does not matter much so long as you include why you should be allowed H&C relief given you were removed from Canada as a minor, AND include clear documentation about the recent positive H&C decision. The latter is mostly to make sure the visa office official processing the application is fully aware of and considers that decision.

As I noted in my previous post, the advice you were given by IRCC to make a PR TD application in order to return to Canada could simply be the generic, FAQ answer for any PR who is outside Canada and who does not have a valid PR card . . . no assurance let alone any guarantee what the visa office will decide. It is possible, maybe even likely, that the official who gave you that advice did so understanding the visa office would issue a PR TD. But maybe not. Again, that would be the exact same advice any IRCC official would give to a PR outside Canada without a valid PR card, EVEN IF the PR was so egregiously in breach of the RO without good H&C reasons that there is a high probability the PR TD application would be denied.

It warrants restating, so emphasizing, that your situation is uncommon for multiple reasons.

I’d also like to add that I am returning to attend UofT for my bachelors. This is also one of the basis upon which i made my argument to retain PR and the case officer even knows that i have been accepted and currently in the process of enrolment

If you make a PR Travel Document application, a big question I cannot answer, and it is likely no one else here can reliably answer either, is to what extent the visa office might reach a different conclusion. That is, what is the risk the visa office might deny the application for a PR TD.

We know that generally a formal decision allowing H&C relief for a breach of the RO means a PR's status is secure unless there is what is called a "change in circumstances." But that is shy of a guarantee, recognizing that what is calculated in deciding such cases changes day-to-day, each day is a different calculation. So a visa office can reach a different conclusion. We know it can but we do not know what the probability of that is.

If you were in Canada now, for example, it would most likely (a bit short of for sure) be safe, or low risk anyway, to apply for a new PR card even though you are very much in breach of the RO.

But you are outside Canada. The visa office can and is likely to evaluate your PR TD application based on the circumstances as of the day the application is made. That is not exactly the same set of circumstances the officer acting in the capacity of a Minister's Delegate based the decision to set aside the 44(1) Report. It is entirely possible that the visa office could make a different decision, a decision denying the PR TD application. I do not know what the probabilities are. Odds are probably in YOUR FAVOUR, but we do not know by how much.

It would be easy if we knew the extent to which the visa office might differ in its decision-making. But we don't. If it was readily apparent there is a high risk of a different outcome, obviously that would strongly suggest the better approach would be to travel to Canada via the U.S.

Even if there is only a medium level of risk involved in making a PR TD application, why take that risk if you can travel to Canada via the U.S.

The practical question is probably how inconvenient or difficult it would be to travel via the U.S.

Note: To go to Toronto, if you can fly to the states it is easy to make a connection to the airport at Buffalo, N.Y. and from there fairly easy to get ground transportation to the border, perhaps even a shuttle or bus to Toronto. Cross-border travel by bus does not require eTA for example. But even just getting to the border, once on the Canadian side there are GO transit buses in the Niagara region which facilitate travel into Toronto that is convenient and relatively inexpensive (and have space for a significant amount of luggage).

None of which, as I commented before, is to advocate against making a PR TD application, but to simply point out an alternative approach that would reduce the risk of a visa office reaching a different outcome.

It is the result of a long pending A44 report. There was no appeal hearing. The report was issued in 2019 when i was 15 and there had been no updates since September 2023 when we were asked for updates. Did the needful and i was told that a positive determination had been made in my case via email.

Delayed review of a 44(1) Report is not the norm, and lengthy delays are particularly uncommon. Not rare, but not anywhere near how it usually works. And a delay as long as there was for you is especially unusual. Which means we do not have many similar cases to compare with.

Meanwhile, if there is a lengthy delay during which the PR has left Canada or is otherwise outside Canada, that typically is a big negative factor tending to result in a negative outcome. So here too your case varies from what is usual.

On the other hand, your case undoubtedly hinged and probably continues to hinge on you being a PR removed from Canada as a minor, now attempting to return to Canada soon after more or less becoming an adult (age of majority is technically 21, but in regards to H&C relief for removed minors, the fulcrum is making the effort to return to Canada as soon as practically reasonable, so the closer to 18 the better). This is a quite common scenario, but as you appear to be aware, many in comparable scenarios are denied H&C relief (I addressed some of the relevant factors in my previous post).

All adding up to an unusual case, with wrinkles making it a bit tricky. Odds seem to indicate you will be OK but we just do not have anywhere near enough information based on other, comparable cases, to be confident about just how this is likely to go.

A request: At this stage it makes little or no difference for you whether the 44(1) Report was prepared attendant being examined at a Port-of-Entry upon arrival in Canada, or was prepared in response to an application for a PR card. But for those of us who follow these issues and are trying to answer questions about how things work, it would be helpful if you could clarify (assuming you know) if this was a Report generated at a PoE or a Report prepared by a local IRCC office. I suspect it was likely prepared at a PoE, but again if you could clarify this it would provide helpful context.