Family Sponsorship (PGP) - E-petition to the House of Commons - 2023

[YVR123]

I have regard for my mother which is why I am always exploring options to bring her here permanently, and you said in your comments that your parents left your grandparents knowing the fact that they wouldn't be able to reunite again and they accepted it,this statement of your shows how much they care for them, anyways like I said before I am not here to argue with anyone,and if you are so anti-immigrant what are you doing in an immigration forum?go get a life somewhere else....

I think you have mixed up physically being with your parents and caring for them.
You can still care and love someone but not physically be there with them.

e.g. if parents hate Canada and love to be with their friends in home country, as a caring child, one won't push them to stay in Canada with the child.
Every family is different. Not everyone express their love and care the same way.

I support immigration since I, myself, is an immigrant. BUT the decision does involve leaving home country and extended family. And that WAS the decision made back then when the application was sent to IRCC.

 

[ibrahim0175]

I think you have mixed up physically being with your parents and caring for them.
You can still care and love someone but not physically be there with them.

I haven't mixed up anything ,I know how to take care of my parents,tell me how someone can take care of their parents if they are not physically present with them specially when they are old,have health complications and need your assistance?

I agree with you on the fact that some parents don't want to come here,that's understandable,no one is forcing them to come here if they don't want to,but my point is that should be decided by the parents,not by some unfair law

I understand that when we decided to submit the immigration file to IRCC,we have agreed to leave behind our extended family,but parents shouldn't fall under extended family list,they should be given same priority as someone's spouse/kids,if someone tells to leave behind your spouse/kids in your home country because they haven't contributed to the economy yet/haven't paid any taxes yet/we have housing/healthcare crisis here, therefore you can't bring your spouse/kids,would you agree on that?probably no,hope it makes sense now....

 

[ibrahim0175]

If you are not happy with the current system, you can push harder for the government to change it or reunite with your mother in another country.

As a Canadian tax paying citizen I also have the right to get health care in a timely matter and not wait years to see specialist.

That's what I am trying to do,pushing the government to change the current system,for reuniting with my mother,I don't have to take your opinion on how I can do that....

As a Canadian tax paying citizen I also have the right to get health care in a timely matter and not wait years to see specialist-like I said before,parents immigration was never the source of the healthcare crisis and other crisis in Canada,even if you stop immigration completely,it would still be a problem unless you solve the root cause of this issue like shortage of doctors,nurses,lack of government investment in health care etc.

 

[Kaibigan]

I haven't mixed up anything ,I know how to take care of my parents,tell me how someone can take care of their parents if they are not physically present with them specially when they are old,have health complications and need your assistance?

...

Totally ridiculous to say that moving away from parents shows a lack of regard for them. In many cases, the exact opposite. My parents left their home country knowing it unlikely that time and finances would allow them to go back for quite a few years. They showed care for parents by sending money home. Money they could not have earned had they never left.

I recently married a woman from the Philippines. She moved to the UAE and, later, to Hong Kong, to have employment. Employment not available to her in the Philippines. She was abroad for about 12 years. Except for a short period when transitioning from the UAE to Hong Kong, she was never back in her home country for all those years. She sent ALL that she made home to her parents. Worked 7 days a week, unlimited hours per day, and was treated like a slave in the UAE. Her passport taken away, not allowed a phone or to go out unaccompanied. Kong Kong was slightly better. Every Sunday off. So, did her departure for abroad show disregard for her parents? I would expect one who manifests your faulty logic to answer in the affirmative. She left out of LOVE. She could serve them well by working abroad and remitting her earnings. She kept not one peso for herself.

You refer to parents being old, having health complications and needing assistance. Unlike you, perhaps, my wife is not a doctor, nurse or the owner of a pharmaceuticals manufacturing firm. Her way to address those health complications, etc., is to earn and send home the wherewithal to pay for medical care, medicines and all needed. Her staying put, earning no money and not even able to support herself, would not, I'll venture, have served her parents as well as her sacrifice to move abroad and to endure conditions few of us could manage. To denigrate that is an outrage.

 

[YVR123]

I haven't mixed up anything ,I know how to take care of my parents,tell me how someone can take care of their parents if they are not physically present with them specially when they are old,have health complications and need your assistance?

I agree with you on the fact that some parents don't want to come here,that's understandable,no one is forcing them to come here if they don't want to,but my point is that should be decided by the parents,not by some unfair law

I understand that when we decided to submit the immigration file to IRCC,we have agreed to leave behind our extended family,but parents shouldn't fall under extended family list,they should be given same priority as someone's spouse/kids,if someone tells to leave behind your spouse/kids in your home country because they haven't contributed to the economy yet/haven't paid any taxes yet/we have housing/healthcare crisis here, therefore you can't bring your spouse/kids,would you agree on that?probably no,hope it makes sense now....

Parents and siblings are extended families. Trying talking to your employer to cover your parents and siblings under your employment extended insurnace/health coverage.
It's a common definition in Canada (and in US)
And you knew this when you immigrated. Not that it was changed during the process.

 

[Kaibigan]

That's what I am trying to do,pushing the government to change the current system,for reuniting with my mother,I don't have to take your opinion on how I can do that....

As a Canadian tax paying citizen I also have the right to get health care in a timely matter and not wait years to see specialist-like I said before,parents immigration was never the source of the healthcare crisis and other crisis in Canada,even if you stop immigration completely,it would still be a problem unless you solve the root cause of this issue like shortage of doctors,nurses,lack of government investment in health care etc.

Yes, you said before. But does your saying it make it so? Have you referred to empirical evidence?

I am willing to accept that "parents (sic) immigration was never the source of the healthcare crisis and other crisis in Canada". But can you say with a straight face that it is not a contributor? No doubt the cause is multi-factorial. But, the wholesale open sesame to extended family that some here are advocating surely won't have zero effect.

As for your "right" to get health care in timely matter (sic) and not wait years to see specialist", as of now, any such "right" is wholly illusory. In the city near me, I know someone who has been referred to a dermatologist on a non-urgent basis. The physician's website set out that the wait time for an "urgent" referral is 3 months, 6 months if not-so-urgent and 9 months in all other cases. And for that, she must travel to another city. Will loading more people onto the system reduce those times?

 

[CEC_1304]

I think you have mixed up physically being with your parents and caring for them.
You can still care and love someone but not physically be there with them.

e.g. if parents hate Canada and love to be with their friends in home country, as a caring child, one won't push them to stay in Canada with the child.
Every family is different. Not everyone express their love and care the same way.

I support immigration since I, myself, is an immigrant. BUT the decision does involve leaving home country and extended family. And that WAS the decision made back then when the application was sent to IRCC.

You Said it
You are correct , many parents don't want to leave home country , they want to visit kids , but don't want to settle here. (Reason are many , cultural , weather and list is long )

 

[ibrahim0175]

Parents and siblings are extended families. Trying talking to your employer to cover your parents and siblings under your employment extended insurnace/health coverage.
It's a common definition in Canada (and in US)
And you knew this when you immigrated. Not that it was changed during the process.

Insurance coverage and parents immigration policy is not the same thing ,now you are mixing it up,

Let me ask you,would you treat your parents the same way you treat your uncles/aunties/cousins? Probably not.....

 

[YVR123]

Insurance coverage and parents immigration policy is not the same thing ,now you are mixing it up,

Let me ask you,would you treat your parents the same way you treat your uncles/aunties/cousins? Probably not.....

Just pointing out that's the general understanding of immediate family vs extended (children, spouses vs parents siblings)
uncle ...etc are relatives. They are not family.
Anyway, good luck.

 

[steaky]

That's both a very large 'if' that's patently not true for all PGP - and I daresay silly to believe that any household with two more people won't want / need more space (or got a place with more space to start with for that reason). I've a good friend in this case with a laneway apartment that would probably go for ~$2000 monthly if the mother wasn't living in it.

On housing demand, it's a pretty simple formula - all things equal, more people = more demand for housing.

Now it's perfectly reasonable to believe the PGP doesn't have much effect overall - the number of people is small compared to other immigration programs and immigration overall. (Personally I think the number of intl students is one of the most obvious as it's grown so rapidly in last 5-10 years.)

But in context where housing shortages seem to be everywhere, and govt has other pressures / advocates for those immigraiton programs (specifically workers and students), it's another factor why govt may look skeptically upon the PGP program.

You miscalculated one factor in your theory: domestic students (inter provincial migration) and overseas Canadian citizen. They too, added to this simple formula - all things equal, more people = more demand for housing.

So it's perfectly not reasonable to believe PGP have much effect overall in housing.

 

[steaky]

Sure, older people can earn money too, but with everything being equal…younger people earn money LONGER.

With everything being equal, young folks will get old some day and become old people.

 

[ibrahim0175]

I am willing to accept that "parents (sic) immigration was never the source of the healthcare crisis and other crisis in Canada". But can you say with a straight face that it is not a contributor? No doubt the cause is multi-factorial. But, the wholesale open sesame to extended family that some here are advocating surely won't have zero effect.

Let me ask you one thing,when(probably in the early 80s/90s) you and your parents immigrated to Canada,Canada had only a few doctors available against thousands of Canadians?did you stop migrating to Canada because of this?weren't you putting extra pressure to Canadian health care system then?did someone advocated the same stop immigration to you/your parents when you immigrated?probably not which is why you are a Canadian immigrant now....

And can you guarantee that health care crisis will be solved totally if they stop parents immigration?they haven't stopped any immigration because of the current healthcare and housing crisis,then why pointing out only a single immigration stream?

And crisis is inevitable sometimes,you just need to learn to live with it....

 

[armoured]

You miscalculated one factor in your theory: domestic students (inter provincial migration) and overseas Canadian citizen. They too, added to this simple formula - all things equal, more people = more demand for housing.

So it's perfectly not reasonable to believe PGP have much effect overall in housing.

I don't know if you had an aneurysm or what, but that's what I wrote. And there's no 'miscalculation;' I just hadn't attempted to list ALL possible factors. Of course PGP contributes less than (some) other factors. But it's not zero.

There's a misunderstanding on your part though: as regards domestic students and overseas citizens (I presume you mean who've chosen to move back) - these are not things the federal government can control directly.

PGP is one that's directly in the government's control; they can just eliminate PGP or limit numbers. They have, of course, been limiting numbers ever since PGP was introduced. And my point is that - unlike the proposal in the subject of this thread, the petition - housing is a factor that militates against drastically increasing the limit or removing it altogether.

 

[armoured]

And can you guarantee that health care crisis will be solved totally if they stop parents immigration?they haven't stopped any immigration because of the current healthcare and housing crisis,then why pointing out only a single immigration stream?

I believe it is well-established that net-net (cost to all levels of govt vs benefits / revenues of immigration) that PGP is one of the only programs that pencils out as a net negative to the Canadian economy. (Nope, I don't have a source to hand). Or at least by far the lowest benefit compared to all the other immigration streams.

This is why it's always been a somewhat controversial program with limits. It's not irrational - at a time when there are shortages in housing and health care - for people to suggest that if ANY program should be limited or cut, it's PGP.

[Leaving aside that it's an extremely bizarre suggestion that the bar any proposal should meet is that it should 'guarantee the health care crisis will be solved totally'.]

 

[canuck78]

Rightly said CKD are main reason for medical fail.
Medical is very costly in Canada, if need to pay from pocket

Cost are more predictable for CKD. Some argue for example that if going through certain cancer treatment for example where treatment is schedule to only last a year that they would not place excessive demand on the healthcare system in the next 5 years. lawyers can get creative although doesn’t always work.