Parents and Grandparents Sponsorship 2023

[canuck78]

The assumption that whoever applied in 2020 waited the longest is not right. Maybe some people applied in 2019 and not 2020, and wanted to apply in the subsequent years. They are excluding these people, that is not given the same opportunity as others. The process is not right and fair

If someone did not apply in 2020 they aren’t part of the same group who has been waiting the longest. There is a large pool of people who have met LICO for years (10+ years) and have applied every year but haven’t been selected. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t apply for PGP in 2020 if you did meet LICO for 2017-2019 but that means that you aren’t part of the group who has applied years and met LICO every year yet never get selected. If people applied correctly you would have at least met LICO since 2017 to qualify to PGP2023 so that does prioritize people that have met LICO since 2017. Going forward there is a very good chance that IRCC will set a certain parameter to try to prioritize people who have been waiting to sponsor their parents versus people who have just qualified for PGP. Given the volume of applicants for PGP and the limited amount of spots people will not be happy unless they get selected r that year. IRCC also doesn’t want to manage a list of applicants that is hundreds of thousands long so they will need to set parameters that will try to give priority to those who have been applying for a while versus those who just arrived. In general Canada needs to clarify that parent sponsorship is mot guaranteed. Canada has an ageing population and our healthcare system can not deal with our current population so adding more seniors (who likely will never pay taxes) isn’t feasible. Most countries do not allow parent sponsorship with access to public healthcare.

 

[Parisuzy]

If someone did not apply in 2020 they aren’t part of the same group who has been waiting the longest. There is a large pool of people who have met LICO for years (10+ years) and have applied every year but haven’t been selected. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t apply for PGP in 2020 if you did meet LICO for 2017-2019 but that means that you aren’t part of the group who has applied years and met LICO every year yet never get selected.

You do not know how long we or others waited so I do not comment on this anymore. Lets land that we disagree on this subject and if/how this process can be fair

 

[babybenz]

We've been waiting since 2010... 3 years suspended, after that a number of year in lotto, a year in speedy typing, then a few more years in lotto again
still waiting!!!
Hope this October will change!

 

[canuck78]

We've been waiting since 2010... 3 years suspended, after that a number of year in lotto, a year in speedy typing, then a few more years in lotto again
still waiting!!!
Hope this October will change!

@Parisuzy You disagree but like an example of why the EOI from 2020 is being used. Perfect example of someone who has qualified for a very long period of time but has not gotten selected for PGP based on luck. There is an attempt to prioritize these applicants because there are quite a few that have been waiting around 10 years while meeting LICO each year and attempting to apply each year. The chances of getting selected randomly are not great based on the number of applicants so most people should want some form of parameters that will prioritize applicants based on for example time in Canada, years meeting LICO, attempts to apply for PGP, etc. The fact that Canada allows any form of parent and grandparent sponsorship given our ageing population, housing issues, foodbank use, major healthcare crisis, etc. is actually pretty amazing. Most other countries do not allow parent and grandparent sponsorship with access to public healthcare because the program provides minimal economic benefit bit uses a lot of resources. You typically spend the majority of healthcare dollars in the last 5 years of life and there are a large amount of PGP applicants using programs for low income seniors irregardless of the income of the children. Many families are also using foodbanks because LICO is incredibly low based on actual cost of living. If you work in healthcare or just use it you know there is a huge lack of resources especially for seniors. The wait times to get into LTC can be years and the wait list to get a GP is also years and will be getting worse. The only way people would be happy is for everyone to sponsor their parents but that isn’t possible. Canada uses immigration to combat our ageing population so allowing everyone to sponsor their parents would add the ageing population not help the situation. I wish Canada was more upfront about the chance of sponsoring parents and timeframe required to sponsor. That would actually be fair. That way people could make educated decisions about whether moving to Canada would was what they wanted.

 

[babybenz]

If someone did not apply in 2020 they aren’t part of the same group who has been waiting the longest. There is a large pool of people who have met LICO for years (10+ years) and have applied every year but haven’t been selected. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t apply for PGP in 2020 if you did meet LICO for 2017-2019 but that means that you aren’t part of the group who has applied years and met LICO every year yet never get selected. If people applied correctly you would have at least met LICO since 2017 to qualify to PGP2023 so that does prioritize people that have met LICO since 2017. Going forward there is a very good chance that IRCC will set a certain parameter to try to prioritize people who have been waiting to sponsor their parents versus people who have just qualified for PGP. Given the volume of applicants for PGP and the limited amount of spots people will not be happy unless they get selected r that year. IRCC also doesn’t want to manage a list of applicants that is hundreds of thousands long so they will need to set parameters that will try to give priority to those who have been applying for a while versus those who just arrived. In general Canada needs to clarify that parent sponsorship is mot guaranteed. Canada has an ageing population and our healthcare system can not deal with our current population so adding more seniors (who likely will never pay taxes) isn’t feasible. Most countries do not allow parent sponsorship with access to public healthcare.

Parents and Grandparents sponsorship is clearly not a top priority for Canada immigration plan. Accepting more parents/grandparents will put more pressure on public health care while making less economic gains. Younger generation comes with talents and/or finance capacity are the main stream immigrations right now
Despite the fact that we have been waiting all these years (13 years to be exact) and yet to be able to sponsor our parents, we must agree to the fact that, lottery is the better option in a less ideal situation like this. At least it is still better than typing race which happened a few years ago
In the end, if everyone is having the same chance 50/50 in this game, what else you could say?
The only complaint about this process is, lots of folks out there did not/have not meet/met the LICO requirement but already submitted the applications in the pool to be draw from. This cause eligible folks share their chance to the non-eligible applicants. But heck, life is not fair, ain't it?
Good luck to me and to everyone this year!

 

[canuck78]

Parents and Grandparents sponsorship is clearly not a top priority for Canada immigration plan. Accepting more parents/grandparents will put more pressure on public health care while making less economic gains. Younger generation comes with talents and/or finance capacity are the main stream immigrations right now
Despite the fact that we have been waiting all these years (13 years to be exact) and yet to be able to sponsor our parents, we must agree to the fact that, lottery is the better option in a less ideal situation like this. At least it is still better than typing race which happened a few years ago
In the end, if everyone is having the same chance 50/50 in this game, what else you could say?
The only complaint about this process is, lots of folks out there did not/have not meet/met the LICO requirement but already submitted the applications in the pool to be draw from. This cause eligible folks share their chance to the non-eligible applicants. But heck, life is not fair, ain't it?
Good luck to me and to everyone this year!

The lottery doesn’t give people a 50/50 chance. Parent and grandparent immigration is a humanitarian program with limited economic benefit and high cost (from healthcare to other services as well as the cost of various payments to low income individuals and seniors) so it makes sense that it isn’t a priority. As the number of immigrants increase the chance of getting selected will decrease if it remains a lottery with current parameters. I also wish someone had sued IRCC pointing out that many had entered the 2020 EOI who didn’t qualify yet got selected in 2021-2023 and may get approved. Not sure why this is allowed to happen. IRCC should be looking to see if people qualified to enter EOI2020 if they want people to only apply if they qualify. Next time IRCC opens an EOI everyone is going to apply even if they don’t qualify which is another reason for changes.

 

[babybenz]

The lottery doesn’t give people a 50/50 chance. Parent and grandparent immigration is a humanitarian program with limited economic benefit and high cost (from healthcare to other services as well as the cost of various payments to low income individuals and seniors) so it makes sense that it isn’t a priority. As the number of immigrants increase the chance of getting selected will decrease if it remains a lottery with current parameters. I also wish someone had sued IRCC pointing out that many had entered the 2020 EOI who didn’t qualify yet got selected in 2021-2023 and may get approved. Not sure why this is allowed to happen. IRCC should be looking to see if people qualified to enter EOI2020 if they want people to only apply if they qualify. Next time IRCC opens an EOI everyone is going to apply even if they don’t qualify which is another reason for changes.

Wishing that happened too but from some sources that I know, the submission of the application is based on honest system... If the applicants are not qualified, their applications are rejected without any penalty and, worse yet that's end of the story. To let the world know that IRCC is fair to offer parents/grandparents sponsorships to anyone, IRCC one side annouces the requirement but at the other side, it's wide opened to the accept anyone (including visitors and students) to submit the Express of Interest into the pool. It does not have any effective "filter" or "screening" method setup to disqualify ineligible applicants

To compensate for this mishaps, IRCC decided that they would accept more applications such as, for this time, IRCC has announced that it will invite 24K+ applicants in order to make 15K actual sponsorship. But that is very big gap if ones think, out of the 24K applicants what if only 8K eligible? Is there any further drawing? No, Yes? How?

Some other suggests that this lotto-honest based system is Ok for this currently situation... Taking above example, if actual qualified applications are only 5K out of 24K submission, then there weren't a lot of parents/grandparents being admitted into the country at a time, therefore, buying more time for the IRCC to work on other immigration stream
Many of us were discussing in past few years on how to prevent the ineligible applicants yet, nothing can be done by the IRCC. One solution is clearly viable is that, let the IRCC to access your CRA records. If the 3-years LICO aren't met, applicants are automatically rejected, why is it not one of the solution?

 

[canuck78]

Wishing that happened too but from some sources that I know, the submission of the application is based on honest system... If the applicants are not qualified, their applications are rejected without any penalty and, worse yet that's end of the story. To let the world know that IRCC is fair to offer parents/grandparents sponsorships to anyone, IRCC one side annouces the requirement but at the other side, it's wide opened to the accept anyone (including visitors and students) to submit the Express of Interest into the pool. It does not have any effective "filter" or "screening" method setup to disqualify ineligible applicants

To compensate for this mishaps, IRCC decided that they would accept more applications such as, for this time, IRCC has announced that it will invite 24K+ applicants in order to make 15K actual sponsorship. But that is very big gap if ones think, out of the 24K applicants what if only 8K eligible? Is there any further drawing? No, Yes? How?

Some other suggests that this lotto-honest based system is Ok for this currently situation... Taking above example, if actual qualified applications are only 5K out of 24K submission, then there weren't a lot of parents/grandparents being admitted into the country at a time, therefore, buying more time for the IRCC to work on other immigration stream
Many of us were discussing in past few years on how to prevent the ineligible applicants yet, nothing can be done by the IRCC. One solution is clearly viable is that, let the IRCC to access your CRA records. If the 3-years LICO aren't met, applicants are automatically rejected, why is it not one of the solution?

Believe that is was announced that there have been close to the targets actually accepted not just 5k. Unfortunately IRCC trusts people way to much to be honest and look up things like their income and report the honest amount. Without public pressure or withou
being sued IRCC rarely acts.

 

[babybenz]

Believe that is was announced that there have been close to the targets actually accepted not just 5k. Unfortunately IRCC trusts people way to much to be honest and look up things like their income and report the honest amount. Without public pressure or withou
being sued IRCC rarely acts.

I believe you can't sue IRCC for the way they are conducting now, because it is based on the large population's benefit e.g. the right to sponsor their parents/grandparents regardless of qualified or not.
Another method is, since applicant must pay the application fees anyway, some suggests IRCC will collect the application fees at the point of submitting the Express of Interest. If it is too much (the actual fees is over $1,000), could consider a 10%-20% of the total. Because there is money involved right away, we hope some applicants may take sometimes to read the rules & requirements...
But even so, there will be lots of ineligible applicants...
This is the game we cannot win, just base on luck!

 

[Parisuzy]

@Parisuzy You disagree but like an example of why the EOI from 2020 is being used. Perfect example of someone who has qualified for a very long period of time but has not gotten selected for PGP based on luck. There is an attempt to prioritize these applicants because there are quite a few that have been waiting around 10 years while meeting LICO each year and attempting to apply each year. The chances of getting selected randomly are not great based on the number of applicants so most people should want some form of parameters that will prioritize applicants based on for example time in Canada, years meeting LICO, attempts to apply for PGP, etc. The fact that Canada allows any form of parent and grandparent sponsorship given our ageing population, housing issues, foodbank use, major healthcare crisis, etc. is actually pretty amazing. Most other countries do not allow parent and grandparent sponsorship with access to public healthcare because the program provides minimal economic benefit bit uses a lot of resources. You typically spend the majority of healthcare dollars in the last 5 years of life and there are a large amount of PGP applicants using programs for low income seniors irregardless of the income of the children. Many families are also using foodbanks because LICO is incredibly low based on actual cost of living. If you work in healthcare or just use it you know there is a huge lack of resources especially for seniors. The wait times to get into LTC can be years and the wait list to get a GP is also years and will be getting worse. The only way people would be happy is for everyone to sponsor their parents but that isn’t possible. Canada uses immigration to combat our ageing population so allowing everyone to sponsor their parents would add the ageing population not help the situation. I wish Canada was more upfront about the chance of sponsoring parents and timeframe required to sponsor. That would actually be fair. That way people could make educated decisions about whether moving to Canada would was what they wanted.

Do you know if I am not part of that long waiting group? I do not know which group you belong to. But I assume you are waiting as well. My point about equality is being in the pool of draw (not setting an arbitrary same date for who can apply during the last three years and exclude others with 0 chance), I am not referring to getting selected which is your justification. That is part of the nature of lottery.

Aging is one thing and family mental health is another. Anyway, I will not comment on this thread anymore as our opinions do not really matter in the process.

 

[imacuser]

Does anyone know how many people are still left in the pool from 2020? I read 150k somewhere but cannot find the source

 

[canuck78]

I believe you can't sue IRCC for the way they are conducting now, because it is based on the large population's benefit e.g. the right to sponsor their parents/grandparents regardless of qualified or not.
Another method is, since applicant must pay the application fees anyway, some suggests IRCC will collect the application fees at the point of submitting the Express of Interest. If it is too much (the actual fees is over $1,000), could consider a 10%-20% of the total. Because there is money involved right away, we hope some applicants may take sometimes to read the rules & requirements...
But even so, there will be lots of ineligible applicants...
This is the game we cannot win, just base on luck!

You could technically sue if you had proof that IRCC was accepting applicants who applicants who never qualified for EOI2020 if you were in EOI2020 and had not been selected.

 

[canuck78]

Do you know if I am not part of that long waiting group? I do not know which group you belong to. But I assume you are waiting as well. My point about equality is being in the pool of draw (not setting an arbitrary same date for who can apply during the last three years and exclude others with 0 chance), I am not referring to getting selected which is your justification. That is part of the nature of lottery.

Aging is one thing and family mental health is another. Anyway, I will not comment on this thread anymore as our opinions do not really matter in the process.

People make the decision to immigrate knowing parent sponsorship is not guaranteed. Anyone immigrating needs to decide whether they can accept living apart from their parents and grandparents. People also have the ability to return to their home country if they feel like they can’t be separate from their parents and grandparents.

 

[babybenz]

You could technically sue if you had proof that IRCC was accepting applicants who applicants who never qualified for EOI2020 if you were in EOI2020 and had not been selected.

I chat with few friends of mine who work in the legal field about this. Technically, IRCC has already have it covered by using the simple phrase:

"By submitting the application, I <names if applicant>, to the best of my knowledge, am responsible for the contents and information that I provided..."

and the list go on and on...

So, anyone could "assume" they are qualified and would submit the EOI because in the end, there is nothing happen to them but getting rejected! Furthermore, if I recall correctly, any random person from any random country, if they know and have some time to waste, could submit the form! No ID check, No string attached!

How to sue?

 

[imacuser]

Does anyone know how many people are still left in the pool from 2020? I read 150k somewhere but cannot find the source

Answering my own question.

Year	Pool Size	Invitations	Chance of Invitation
2020	203,213 verified	13,400	6.59 %
2021	189,813 estimated	40,000	21.07 %
2022	155,313 verified	23,100	14.87 %
2023	132,213 estimated	24,200	18.30 %