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GandiBaat

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You do you.
Thats very true.

Though, I will say it does not hurt to look things in their true color. US medical care and Canadian medical care. See what kind of broken works for you. Both will be broken, just one may cut you more than other -- pehaps. I think its not worth to debate which is more broken. A vase broken on neck or at bottom is still broken. Just which one works for you. So yup!

You do you, mate, you do you!
 
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iSaidGoodDay

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some people on this forum really need a chill pill. I guess people expect Canada to be some sort of heaven on earth
Yes, Canada overmarketed their immigration process
Yes Canada has alot of issues

But they are doing it in their interest, they don't really care about people like you or I. The government of canada isn't an altruistic entity, it has its own national interests

But we still come because the deal they offer is better than most around the world. The day that is no longer the case, people will stop immigrating

At the end of the day you chose to immigrate here because you chose or couldn't qualify for another country, so stop crying about it
Honestly, I agree with you. But as a new immigrant, we can't afford to be ignorant about what other immigrants go through. The discussion became tangential very fast and is probably a topic that deserves it owns thread for the sake of education of both sides.
 

Arod

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May 15, 2017
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So are the "Canada is almost as bad as Haiti" guys still here? I thought they would be gone by now.

For future newcomers, please make sure that you read and learn as much as you can about this country BEFORE you get here.

It's really become tiresome having to read new immigrants complain after a few years or even months of being here, just because they came totally unprepared.
 

seadrag0n

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Mar 6, 2018
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So are the "Canada is almost as bad as Haiti" guys still here? I thought they would be gone by now.

For future newcomers, please make sure that you read and learn as much as you can about this country BEFORE you get here.

It's really become tiresome having to read new immigrants complain after a few years or even months of being here, just because they came totally unprepared.
People endlessly complain before coming here but they still come and continue with their complaining lol
 

Arod

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May 15, 2017
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https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canada-new-immigrants-citizenship
FIRST READING: Canada is scaring away its new immigrants
With rising numbers of newcomers already planning to move out, many new immigrants aren't bothering to seek citizenship

As Canada ratchets up immigration to the highest levels in its history, surprising new figures from Statistics Canada are showing that nearly half of all recent immigrants are no longer bothering to seek Canadian citizenship.The numbers were publicized this week by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship. And according to the group’s CEO Daniel Bernhard, they may be a sign that the Canadian dream is no longer working out for newcomers.

“What’s changing is that people have decided that they’re less interested in being ‘Team Canada,’” Bernhard said in a statement, adding that the figures are a “wake up” call to the Canadian immigrant experience is treating new arrivals.

In 2021, of the permanent residents who had come to Canada within the last 10 years, just 45.7 per cent had become citizens. In 2001, that figure was 75.1 per cent.

It’s not the first time that evidence has emerged to show that new immigrants are not as enthralled with Canada as in prior decades.

A March Leger survey — also commissioned by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship — found that more than one fifth of recent immigrants were already making plans to leave. Among under-34 immigrants, in particular, 30 per cent said they were “likely” to leave Canada within the next two years.


As to why, newcomers are citing the same concerns with the country as native-born Canadians: Skyrocketing housing costs and diminishing access to government services such as health care.

In the Leger poll, even among immigrants who wanted to stay, their number one reservation was “high cost of living.”

In a bid to boost GDP, the Trudeau government has already raised Canada’s immigration intake to the highest levels in Canadian history, and is on track to bring in 500,000 newcomers annually by 2025. Absent any dramatic policy changes, this influx will likely worsen many of the issues that are already beginning to scare away new Canadians.

On Tuesday, CIBC CEO Victor Dodig warned that if Canada continued packing in immigrants without a viable plan to absorb them, it could spur an unprecedented “social crisis.”

“New Canadians want to establish a life here, they need a roof over their heads. We need to get that policy right and not wave the flag saying isn’t it great that everyone wants to come to Canada,” Dodig said at an event hosted by Canadian Club Toronto.

One other factor potentially driving down rates of immigrants seeking citizenship is that Canada’s immigrant stream is increasingly coming from countries that do not tolerate dual citizenship, thus prompting many newcomers to remain permanent residents in perpetuity.

The chief examples are India and China. Indian nationals are required to surrender their Indian passport the moment they become Canadian citizens. Chinese prohibitions on dual citizenship were illustrated most glaringly in 2021, when the Beijing government tightened its control on Hong Kong by forcing 300,000 residents with joint Canadian citizenship to either leave or tear up their Canadian passport.

Both countries now represent a significant share of Canada’s current immigrant influx. As per 2021 figures, 18.6 per cent of recent Canadian immigrants reported India as their birthplace, while 8.9 per cent reported being born in China.


For context, just three per cent of recent immigrants were born in the United States.

In 2022, Canada officially welcomed 431,645 immigrants. Notably, the last time in Canadian history that immigration levels were this high — during the settling of the prairies in the years preceding the First World War – it was also paired with surging levels of outmigration as many newcomers swiftly abandoned their new Canadian homesteads.

“A lot of people left; outmigration was as high as in-migration for a very, very long time,” Adele Perry, a researcher of Western Canadian history, told the National Post in 2012.
This sort of contradicts what some say when they claim that people come to Canada only to become citizens and get a passport to move to another country.

That said, for someone who is already a permanent resident, there are not many incentives to apply for citizenship other than wanting to have the right to vote or being able to fly with a Canadian passport.

If you are not interested in any of those things why bother?
 
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cansha

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May I ask, does anyone know about anything as "Actual value". Is there anything as actual value? Do you know "actual value" of say an orange or just the price you paid?

All there is an estimation or appraisal of sorts. CSR score is one such tool. It estimates your value based on a number of parameters. If it is high enough to push you in ranks high enough, Canada invites you. So if that tool CSR is good enough for canadian system, I guess you do not have any better means to put any other value on a person. If Canada invites a person at say CSR 450, there is value enough.

This is the "core pillar" you are seeking.

All the people who are calling immigration minister, PM etc are mostly frustrated with Canadian immigration system for their delayed or broken processing of the application. And thats a fair thing to do. To even call names. Because they PAID for that service.

Can we agree at this point?

If you PAY for a service, here, for processing your immigration file, you are ENTITLED for it? ENTITLED in a resonable time? Because you paid for it?
While I agree wholeheartedly with your point that IRCC should be processing applications in given timeline; I think calling it a crime is a bit much. Having seen USCIS very closely I would say IRCC is way better. I have friends who immigrated to Australia with no updates for 2 years before files were approved. I have a friend currently applying for citizenship in Germany and there also you don't get any updates.

Is IRCC really the worst when processing applications .. I don't think that is true unless your data says that USCIS or any other country are way too efficient. May be they exist but I haven't heard of any.
 

seadrag0n

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Mar 6, 2018
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While I agree wholeheartedly with your point that IRCC should be processing applications in given timeline; I think calling it a crime is a bit much. Having seen USCIS very closely I would say IRCC is way better. I have friends who immigrated to Australia with no updates for 2 years before files were approved. I have a friend currently applying for citizenship in Germany and there also you don't get any updates.

Is IRCC really the worst when processing applications .. I don't think that is true unless your data says that USCIS or any other country are way too efficient. May be they exist but I haven't heard of any.
I don't know how much this is true but I heard that no other country provides GCMS notes equivalent to know exactly what is happening with your application.
 

GandiBaat

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While I agree wholeheartedly with your point that IRCC should be processing applications in given timeline; I think calling it a crime is a bit much. Having seen USCIS very closely I would say IRCC is way better. I have friends who immigrated to Australia with no updates for 2 years before files were approved. I have a friend currently applying for citizenship in Germany and there also you don't get any updates.

Is IRCC really the worst when processing applications .. I don't think that is true unless your data says that USCIS or any other country are way too efficient. May be they exist but I haven't heard of any.
Till 1918 Canada did not give any voting rights to women. US did not give it till 1920. Till late 1960s, segregation racial segregation was not punished or made illegal and there were Jim Crow laws in USA. All of them were unfair, criminal and unjust.

One last example, several countries till date do not have decent child protection laws -- France has / recently had some very very alarming gaps in protecting minors against abuse. I think any abuse arising out of that gap and goes unpunished is equally criminal.

Here, simply because a group of people -- namely economic immigrants here -- have not been afforded protection as customer/client protection should, against IRCC's misdoings does not make IRCC's theft of its client's money and time any less criminal -- and yes, while their applications are being processed, applicants are customers of IRCC because IRCC takes money to offer a service of evaluating and granting PR.

Its a basic thing : If you take money to deliver a service, you should do it. If you do not, you should compensate for not delivering or not delivering at time. Just because you ie Canada is a sovereign does not make a crime any less of a crime. It is simply that Canada does not face punishment because it is a sovereign. It can argue that in best interest of Canadians, we can not punish IRCC in Canadian courts. Its no better than arguing that it is in best interest of majority it is totally okay to screw the rights of minorities. It is wrong to accept something that is basically crime as an acceptable behaviour.
 
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GandiBaat

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I don't know how much this is true but I heard that no other country provides GCMS notes equivalent to know exactly what is happening with your application.
They do.

Any country which has a proper right to information kind of law, does it.

My lawyer in Australia told me about it because I wanted to resume my PR there. It is possible to pull my file from DIBP (similar to IRCC) in Australia.

Freedom of Information
You can make a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to obtain a copy of your prior file from the Department. You can find the relevant Form 424A here.
The details to make this request can also be found here.
US border protection / DHS has FIOA which allows you to get border entry and exit records. I think but not sure that same FIOA might allow you to get your file from USCIS.
 
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Islander216

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This sort of contradicts what some say when they claim that people come to Canada only to become citizens and get a passport to move to another country.

That said, for someone who is already a permanent resident, there are not many incentives to apply for citizenship other than wanting to have the right to vote or being able to fly with a Canadian passport.

If you are not interested in any of those things why bother?
I don't believe the vast majority only want to come to Canada for citizenship and the passport. I think a privileged percentage of people do, but most are here because they want to settle in Canada permanently.

The issue is also whether they can sustain their life in Canada the period required, it takes on average a minimum of 4 years to get your citizenship, that's 4 years of living in Canada most likely just through your own means. For someone who is struggling professionally, financially or socially, it might just not be worth it.

The factor is there are still a lot of people who leave a good life in their home countries to move to Canada, and when they see that the Canadian lifestyle doesn't suit them, they end up leaving before going through that citizenship process.
 

Islander216

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I'm not wasting my breath because I'm not arguing. People like my posts because I'm mostly unbiased and paint both the good and the bad parts of the picture. People fail to understand what's a discussion and what's an argument, or what's criticism and what's complaint. I don't care, the data is there (55% haven't become citizens, 30% looking to leave very soon). I only share info along with my personal experience. When I'm researching something on the internet, I'll want to hear both good and bad experiences because the reality is the sum of them all. My first post included both my good and bad experiences. It's just insane that people get seriously butthurt because some random stranger said something about some random foreign country on some random website.

There isn't a single country that has literally everything perfect. But this won't change the fact that Canada is a cold, boring country with a ponzi scheme of a real estate market, unbelievably shitty and small job market, high taxes, low paychecks, and a joke of a health care system (if you call it a system). I'll enjoy the passport, sure, but I'm sane enough to understand I'll just take all I can from any country and not be completely dense to the point I'm literally arguing with random strangers online for what they might have said about some random foreign country.
I think a lot of your criticisms are valid.

However, as we all know you don't get everything in one place. You also have to make a lot of effort to live an interesting life here, probably more than you would in Europe and the US, and that's mainly because there is not as much of an emphasis on having a strong social life, among Canadians. But I can also tell you through my own experiences, that if you try to be a lightening rod for social interaction, a lot of people are going to be receptive to it because it's something they lack and want more of, but don't have the time or proactiveness to pursue themselves. One of the main challenges here is to meet and cultivate relationships with people who are likeminded, want to go out on the weekend, have fun, etc.

What I mean is, if you build it they will come. And also remember there are lot of other people who move to Canada as well and want to build a social network here too, and they are also usually game to join into building something.

In all honestly, many of the criticisms you've made apply to other places too. I've heard in Australia people are even more closed off and it's even harder to crack socially, so it's just part of the immigrant struggle. But you just have to try your best to make a life for yourself here.

But I completely understand someone moving from Europe or Asia to here, and struggling with the individualistic way of life. Everyone is sort of in their own silos, especially the locals. To be honest even you will have trouble integrating people as you get to know more and more of them.

Canada is not for everyone, I completely understand someone who was happy back home with all the social capital they've built growing up in their society, not wanting to throw it all away to come here and live the whole "metro, boulot, dodo" lifestyle, and having to start from zero in terms of building community. That's why people who have it good in their own country have to contemplate a lot of this stuff before and after they come here, especially as it's much harder to make the progress here that others managed to 10, 20 years ago. Now a lot of people who are earning well are still living month to month, and so the financial incentives to move here have certainly lessened over the years.

A lot of people think moving to Canada is like an evolutionary step where their life will just progress further on the same trajectory it did back in their own country. But the reality is it's a complete system shock, and not everyone understands that until they come here and figure out how difficult it is build a new life for themselves. Some people are better equipped at doing that than others.
 
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GandiBaat

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I think a lot of your criticisms are valid.

However, as we all know you don't get everything in one place. You also have to make a lot of effort to live an interesting life here, probably more than you would in Europe and the US, and that's mainly because there is not as much of an emphasis on having a strong social life here, among Canadians. But I can also tell you through my own experiences, that if you try to be a lightening rod for social interaction, a lot of people are going to be receptive to it because it's something they lack and want more of, but don't have the time or proactiveness to pursue themselves.

What I mean is, if you build it they will come. And also remember there are lot of other people who move to Canada as well and want to build a social network here too, and they are also usually game to join into building something.

In all honestly, many of the criticisms you've made apply to other places too. I've heard in Australia people are even more closed off and it's even hard to crack socially, so it's just part of the immigrant struggle. But you just have to try your best to make a life for yourself here.

But I completely understand someone moving from Europe or Asia moving here, and struggling with the individualistic way of life here. Everyone is sort of in their own silos, especially the locals. To be honest even you will have trouble integrating people as you get to know more and more of them.
There is an age part of equation as well.

After a certain age, you do not really become close to new folks. I guess 40 or so is the cut off or may be earlier. Also, you do seek out more people during a certain age ie teens and twenties. You seek out relationships. A lot of people are settled into their social group by mid 30s.

I think those who come here to do their bachelors are best placed for social experience.

I solved it in part by bringing my own social circle from India.
 

dankboi

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This sort of contradicts what some say when they claim that people come to Canada only to become citizens and get a passport to move to another country.

That said, for someone who is already a permanent resident, there are not many incentives to apply for citizenship other than wanting to have the right to vote or being able to fly with a Canadian passport.

If you are not interested in any of those things why bother?
If you are not interested in any of those things why bother?
ehm i came across an opinion/article regarding immigration so posted it here. i'm cool. once in a while i log in here and do these shady stuffs . just dank things. as simple as it is. take it ezy folks.