After a44(1) report....when will MD contact?

[MUSTAFACAN]

The situation here has been discussed on and off for a long while now. What looms large is what is unknown. This situation is clearly an outlier. In following PR issues for more than a decade, including reading many dozens if not hundreds of IAD and Federal Court decisions about Residency Obligation issues, I have not seen a comparable case.

There have been some forum anecdotal reports from PRs issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE and then allowed into Canada without being interviewed by another officer (one authorized to act as a Minister's Delegate), who were expecting to be contacted for an interview but many weeks went by without that happening. But other than @MUSTAFACAN few if any of them returned here later to further report about their case or what happened.

In any event, the situation is so unusual we do not have much information to go on.

The dilemma is obvious: so long as there is a 44(1) Report actually outstanding, the PR's days in Canada do NOT count toward RO compliance. These days will be a consideration in an assessment of H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep PR status, but they do not count toward meeting the 730 days in five years obligation.

"Don't you think when I apply for renewal..the officer would get my info from my case file and if necessary contact the MD?"​

It is NOT as if there is a particular Minister's Delegate responsible. All "Minister's Delegate" means is an officer who has authorization to act, to make decisions, on behalf of the Minister. Which I think is most or nearly most CBSA officers working immigration (in contrast to customs), and similarly for IRCC immigration officers in the local offices. The officer who issued the original 44(1) Report quite likely had such authorization, but a different officer, other than the officer who issues the 44(1) Report, must *ACT* as the Minister's Delegate in a given case (an officer cannot review his or her own decision). As I have oft commented, generally the Minister's Delegate is simply another officer at the PoE, and sometimes it is an officer at a different PoE who can interview the PR by telephone.

BUT yes, one would think that by this stage of things IRCC would schedule an interview to address the RO compliance issue, or schedule an interview with an officer who has authorization to act as a Minister's Delegate, or otherwise set the 44(1) Report aside. But again, not having seen anything like this happening to anyone else, it is impossible to guess what is happening or why.

It is NOT certain, even, if the current status of things is really about the 44(1) Report and RO compliance.

I do not recall my past comments about the situation. I am guessing that I have previously suggested it was time to see a lawyer. And, indeed, this seems to be well past the stage at which it would be prudent to at least consult with a competent attorney experienced in immigration law.

Hi

Today again went to pick up PR Card. Its 1 year card. Asked when will they give 5 year card. The officer doesnt have any answer...nor anyone...tried srarching internet...forums..contacted cic....no one has answer.

Now that my stay in Canada is more than 3+ years can i apply for Citizenship.

The situation here has been discussed on and off for a long while now. What looms large is what is unknown. This situation is clearly an outlier. In following PR issues for more than a decade, including reading many dozens if not hundreds of IAD and Federal Court decisions about Residency Obligation issues, I have not seen a comparable case.

There have been some forum anecdotal reports from PRs issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE and then allowed into Canada without being interviewed by another officer (one authorized to act as a Minister's Delegate), who were expecting to be contacted for an interview but many weeks went by without that happening. But other than @MUSTAFACAN few if any of them returned here later to further report about their case or what happened.

In any event, the situation is so unusual we do not have much information to go on.

The dilemma is obvious: so long as there is a 44(1) Report actually outstanding, the PR's days in Canada do NOT count toward RO compliance. These days will be a consideration in an assessment of H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep PR status, but they do not count toward meeting the 730 days in five years obligation.

"Don't you think when I apply for renewal..the officer would get my info from my case file and if necessary contact the MD?"​

It is NOT as if there is a particular Minister's Delegate responsible. All "Minister's Delegate" means is an officer who has authorization to act, to make decisions, on behalf of the Minister. Which I think is most or nearly most CBSA officers working immigration (in contrast to customs), and similarly for IRCC immigration officers in the local offices. The officer who issued the original 44(1) Report quite likely had such authorization, but a different officer, other than the officer who issues the 44(1) Report, must *ACT* as the Minister's Delegate in a given case (an officer cannot review his or her own decision). As I have oft commented, generally the Minister's Delegate is simply another officer at the PoE, and sometimes it is an officer at a different PoE who can interview the PR by telephone.

BUT yes, one would think that by this stage of things IRCC would schedule an interview to address the RO compliance issue, or schedule an interview with an officer who has authorization to act as a Minister's Delegate, or otherwise set the 44(1) Report aside. But again, not having seen anything like this happening to anyone else, it is impossible to guess what is happening or why.

It is NOT certain, even, if the current status of things is really about the 44(1) Report and RO compliance.

I do not recall my past comments about the situation. I am guessing that I have previously suggested it was time to see a lawyer. And, indeed, this seems to be well past the stage at which it would be prudent to at least consult with a competent attorney experienced in immigration law.

Hi

Today when to pickup PR Card...its 1 year card again. I asked the officer when will i get 5 year card and why they are not solving the issue...he doesnt have answer.

In 2017 i got a(44) report when i applied for renewal of PR card as i dint fulfill RO. The repory says Minister Delegate will contact. 5 years gone no one contacted.

No one has answer for my issue.
Searched internet..forums..contacted CIC..no one gave the answer.

Now that i stayed in canads for more than 3+ years..can i apply for Citizenship?

Thanks.

 

[armoured]

No one has answer for my issue.
Searched internet..forums..contacted CIC..no one gave the answer.

Have you done any of the things suggested in past that you should do?

I see others have suggested (and they are reasonable suggestions):
-contact MP;
-engage a lawyer;
-order access to information notes.

If you have some reason you're not doing these, would perhaps be easiest if you explained why.

But if you don't wish to do any of those things, and you just want to apply for citizenship - without really being aware of potential consequences, timeframe, or whether it will actually clarify what the issue is - then I doubt there's much anyone can really suggest.

Note: citizenship apps seem to be taking quite a while now, so you may still be looking at quite a long period before knowing anything more in addition. Given that 'difficult cases' seem to take quite a long time and there is the possibility (dsicussed by @dpenabill) that it would just get put on hold, it may not - realistically - provide any information at all for quite a long time (and then need a lawyer or other assistance to dislodge).

But of course, on the positive side, if it works, you'd have the situation resolved at the end of it and you'd be a citizen. Just no-one can really say whether this would work.

 

[dpenabill]

Today when to pickup PR Card...its 1 year card again. I asked the officer when will i get 5 year card and why they are not solving the issue...he doesnt have answer.

In 2017 i got a(44) report when i applied for renewal of PR card as i dint fulfill RO. The repory says Minister Delegate will contact. 5 years gone no one contacted.

No one has answer for my issue.

More than two years ago in this thread my observation, in large font bold, was TIME TO SEE A LAWYER.

More than two years PRIOR to that, that is more than FOUR and a HALF years ago, I responded to another of your queries, another thread, similarly, as in get a lawyer. In particular I posted (in part):

Your situation is way beyond the range of the kind of help you can obtain from anyone in a forum like this . . . .
. . . This is NEED-a-LAWYER territory. I'd suggest a really good lawyer. Not a consultant. A lawyer.

But you are still doing google searches to find answers? Please forgive my sarcasm, but why not try tea leaves?

In the meantime, there are many facts and circumstances that could have a very substantial impact on your current situation and prognosis for the future. Starting with where you have been living and working these last several years, and where your family has been located, among many other factors. The fact that you have once again been issued a one-year PR card signals there is in fact an outstanding 44(1) Report or somehow your case has proceeded to an appeal. Either way, your PR status is tenuous. Either way, the merits matter, and the merits include facts and circumstances that can influence the outcome of an H&C assessment. Either way, days in Canada since the 44(1) Report was prepared do NOT count toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation, so the outcome of either a hearing/interview with a "Minister's Delegate" or an appeal will depend on whether your H&C case is strong enough to persuade the decision-maker you should be allowed to keep PR status.

Key factor: the degree to which you are settled and living and working in Canada permanently, which of course includes counting the days IN Canada during these last four or five years . . . but it is important to recognize that 731 or more days in Canada during the last five years will not be enough to tip the scales favourably for you. Your hurdle is about whether your establishment in Canada in conjunction with the hardship of losing PR status constitutes sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status despite failing to comply with the PR RO. (The relevant time period for calculating your compliance with the Residency Obligation, itself, appears to be 2012 to 2017, based on date of examination in the 44(1) Report.)

If you are in fact currently fully established in Canada, settled and living here PERMANENTLY, and have been IN Canada for all of the last three or fours years except for BRIEF trips abroad, the odds are probably good you will eventually emerge from this without losing PR status and being able to apply for and obtain Canadian citizenship. EVENTUALLY.

But as to how soon to push things? SEE A LAWYER. SEE A LAWYER.

Let's be clear: odds are the 44(1) Report that was prepared was valid in law. In particular, if as of that date you had not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the preceding five years, that report is valid in law (unless there was a procedural irregularity in preparing it, which is not likely). That means you have been found to be inadmissible. That means you LOSE PR status UNLESS that report is set aside or otherwise dismissed. So no matter how much you have been in Canada in the meantime, keeping your PR status depends on a favourable H&C determination. That means, at least in part, balancing how much of your life is centered in Canada and weighing how much hardship it will be for you to lose your Canadian PR status. Unless you have been and currently are more or less well established in Canada, no advanced degrees in game theory necessary to see which way the odds lean.

Applying For Citizenship:

Of course you CAN submit an application for citizenship. You might even currently meet the qualifications. I DO NOT KNOW. And you should NOT TRUST anyone who claims to know . . . EXCEPT a qualified lawyer, and even then ONLY IF the lawyer has reviewed all the relevant records in your case in conjunction with all the relevant information regarding your circumstances, including where you have been living and working these last five to ten years.

EVEN IF you currently meet the eligibility requirements for a grant of citizenship, however, an outstanding 44(1) Report constitutes grounds for suspending processing of the citizenship application. So, even if you meet the physical presence requirements that does NOT mean you will be granted citizenship and, frankly, unless and until the 44(1) Inadmissibility Report is resolved, AND resolved FAVOURABLY, it is highly unlikely that the citizenship application will even be processed let alone progress to approval and grant of citizenship. In this regard, referencing an exchange between @canuck78 and me back in January 2020, in this thread, in a PRACTICAL sense @canuck78 was more correct . . . not because the days in Canada do not count toward meeting the citizenship presence requirement but because it is almost certain that IRCC will suspend (put on hold) any citizenship application until the 44(1) Inadmissibility Report is resolved (this would be pursuant to Section 13.1 (b) in the Citizenship Act; see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-4.html#docCont ).

My guess is that a lawyer will recommend NOT applying for citizenship YET but, rather, evaluate your case relative to whether it is time to pursue resolution of the 44(1) Report. But this is just a guess.

As @Tubsmagee suggested, sure, you could proceed with making an application and see how things go. I'd frame the "worst case" scenario differently, and emphasize that what then happens will very likely depend a great deal on the extent to which you have settled and stayed in Canada these last three or four years, and caution that if you have been balancing a life in and outside Canada, there is a real risk that the "worst case" scenario is IRCC proceeds to issue a Removal Order, which of course you could appeal and prolong the process. If in contrast you have been well settled and mostly staying IN Canada these last three or four years, whether you want to gamble and push things without getting at least some advice from a lawyer is your decision to make. You will not find any reliable answers searching google, bing, or in tea leaves.

 

[MUSTAFACAN]

More than two years ago in this thread my observation, in large font bold, was TIME TO SEE A LAWYER.

More than two years PRIOR to that, that is more than FOUR and a HALF years ago, I responded to another of your queries, another thread, similarly, as in get a lawyer. In particular I posted (in part):

But you are still doing google searches to find answers? Please forgive my sarcasm, but why not try tea leaves?

In the meantime, there are many facts and circumstances that could have a very substantial impact on your current situation and prognosis for the future. Starting with where you have been living and working these last several years, and where your family has been located, among many other factors. The fact that you have once again been issued a one-year PR card signals there is in fact an outstanding 44(1) Report or somehow your case has proceeded to an appeal. Either way, your PR status is tenuous. Either way, the merits matter, and the merits include facts and circumstances that can influence the outcome of an H&C assessment. Either way, days in Canada since the 44(1) Report was prepared do NOT count toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation, so the outcome of either a hearing/interview with a "Minister's Delegate" or an appeal will depend on whether your H&C case is strong enough to persuade the decision-maker you should be allowed to keep PR status.

Key factor: the degree to which you are settled and living and working in Canada permanently, which of course includes counting the days IN Canada during these last four or five years . . . but it is important to recognize that 731 or more days in Canada during the last five years will not be enough to tip the scales favourably for you. Your hurdle is about whether your establishment in Canada in conjunction with the hardship of losing PR status constitutes sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status despite failing to comply with the PR RO. (The relevant time period for calculating your compliance with the Residency Obligation, itself, appears to be 2012 to 2017, based on date of examination in the 44(1) Report.)

If you are in fact currently fully established in Canada, settled and living here PERMANENTLY, and have been IN Canada for all of the last three or fours years except for BRIEF trips abroad, the odds are probably good you will eventually emerge from this without losing PR status and being able to apply for and obtain Canadian citizenship. EVENTUALLY.

But as to how soon to push things? SEE A LAWYER. SEE A LAWYER.

Let's be clear: odds are the 44(1) Report that was prepared was valid in law. In particular, if as of that date you had not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the preceding five years, that report is valid in law (unless there was a procedural irregularity in preparing it, which is not likely). That means you have been found to be inadmissible. That means you LOSE PR status UNLESS that report is set aside or otherwise dismissed. So no matter how much you have been in Canada in the meantime, keeping your PR status depends on a favourable H&C determination. That means, at least in part, balancing how much of your life is centered in Canada and weighing how much hardship it will be for you to lose your Canadian PR status. Unless you have been and currently are more or less well established in Canada, no advanced degrees in game theory necessary to see which way the odds lean.

Applying For Citizenship:

Of course you CAN submit an application for citizenship. You might even currently meet the qualifications. I DO NOT KNOW. And you should NOT TRUST anyone who claims to know . . . EXCEPT a qualified lawyer, and even then ONLY IF the lawyer has reviewed all the relevant records in your case in conjunction with all the relevant information regarding your circumstances, including where you have been living and working these last five to ten years.

EVEN IF you currently meet the eligibility requirements for a grant of citizenship, however, an outstanding 44(1) Report constitutes grounds for suspending processing of the citizenship application. So, even if you meet the physical presence requirements that does NOT mean you will be granted citizenship and, frankly, unless and until the 44(1) Inadmissibility Report is resolved, AND resolved FAVOURABLY, it is highly unlikely that the citizenship application will even be processed let alone progress to approval and grant of citizenship. In this regard, referencing an exchange between @canuck78 and me back in January 2020, in this thread, in a PRACTICAL sense @canuck78 was more correct . . . not because the days in Canada do not count toward meeting the citizenship presence requirement but because it is almost certain that IRCC will suspend (put on hold) any citizenship application until the 44(1) Inadmissibility Report is resolved (this would be pursuant to Section 13.1 (b) in the Citizenship Act; see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-4.html#docCont ).

My guess is that a lawyer will recommend NOT applying for citizenship YET but, rather, evaluate your case relative to whether it is time to pursue resolution of the 44(1) Report. But this is just a guess.

As @Tubsmagee suggested, sure, you could proceed with making an application and see how things go. I'd frame the "worst case" scenario differently, and emphasize that what then happens will very likely depend a great deal on the extent to which you have settled and stayed in Canada these last three or four years, and caution that if you have been balancing a life in and outside Canada, there is a real risk that the "worst case" scenario is IRCC proceeds to issue a Removal Order, which of course you could appeal and prolong the process. If in contrast you have been well settled and mostly staying IN Canada these last three or four years, whether you want to gamble and push things without getting at least some advice from a lawyer is your decision to make. You will not find any reliable answers searching google, bing, or in tea leaves.

Hi

Thanks for the detail reply. You are suggesting me to hire a lawyer. Good. But i never asked a solution. I asked whether anyone has info about a(44) report and what will be the consequrnces specially in a case like mine.
Thanks for your detail replies. But i see that you too dont have any info.

 

[MUSTAFACAN]

Have you done any of the things suggested in past that you should do?

I see others have suggested (and they are reasonable suggestions):
-contact MP;
-engage a lawyer;
-order access to information notes.

If you have some reason you're not doing these, would perhaps be easiest if you explained why.

But if you don't wish to do any of those things, and you just want to apply for citizenship - without really being aware of potential consequences, timeframe, or whether it will actually clarify what the issue is - then I doubt there's much anyone can really suggest.

Note: citizenship apps seem to be taking quite a while now, so you may still be looking at quite a long period before knowing anything more in addition. Given that 'difficult cases' seem to take quite a long time and there is the possibility (dsicussed by @dpenabill) that it would just get put on hold, it may not - realistically - provide any information at all for quite a long time (and then need a lawyer or other assistance to dislodge).

But of course, on the positive side, if it works, you'd have the situation resolved at the end of it and you'd be a citizen. Just no-one can really say whether this would work.

Than you

 

[armoured]

I asked whether anyone has info about a(44) report and what will be the consequrnces specially in a case like mine.
Thanks for your detail replies. But i see that you too dont have any info.

Already been discussed in general terms - it could potentially mean that there is a report and none of your days 'count' and a removal order will come.

So while we are saying 'advice' - the point is that getting better information, in a way that can be used, will probably require a lawyer.

The answers to your questions, the info you want - lawyer.

Try your MP, try ATIP too. But a lawyer probably unavoidable.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi

Thanks for the detail reply. You are suggesting me to hire a lawyer. Good. But i never asked a solution. I asked whether anyone has info about a(44) report and what will be the consequrnces specially in a case like mine.
Thanks for your detail replies. But i see that you too dont have any info.

Actually I did give information about the 44(1) Report: Starting with it is clear there is still an outstanding Report and as such it is grounds for suspending an application for citizenship, and thus as long as the Report is outstanding the high probability is any application for citizenship will not be processed UNLESS and until the Report is resolved (and resolved favourably). Even if you are currently qualified for a grant of citizenship.

Secondly, while the 44(1) Report remains outstanding you do NOT get credit toward Residency Obligation compliance for days in Canada.

Thirdly, whether that Report is valid in law depends on the number of days you were in Canada during the five years prior to the date of the Report. This appears to be about days in Canada between 2012 and 2017. Based on previous posts it appears the Report is valid in law (that is, between 2012 and 2017 you were NOT in Canada at least 730 days).

Fourthly (and again all this was already stated), UNLESS this Report is set aside your PR status remains tenuous and subject to being terminated.

Fifth, whether it is a decision that is to still be made by a Minister's Delegate following an interview/hearing, or by an IAD panel in appeal, saving your PR status depends on a decision to set aside the Report and since the Report is valid in law, that decision will be based on whether there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status despite the breach of the RO.

Sixth, if the Minister's Delegate determines the H&C reasons are not strong enough to set aside the Report, a Removal Order will be issued, whereupon you could appeal and prolong the process. (I assume you understand what a Removal Order is.)

Seventh, your chances of getting the Report set aside based on a favourable H&C assessment will likely depend, at least to a significant extent, on whether you have settled and stayed in Canada during these last few years.

All of the above I described. So your statement that I do not have any info in regards to the 44(1) Report makes no sense.

What I do not have, and what you will not find here or elsewhere on the internet, is reliable advice about what you can or need to do to get the 44(1) Report resolved . . . for that you need a lawyer, and a good lawyer . . . or as @Tubsmagee suggested, go ahead and take your chances by making a citizenship application. There are other alternatives for pushing IRCC to resolve the Report, such as making a demand of the type that is required to initiate an application for Mandamus, but whether that is a good idea depends on a lot, lot more facts than you have shared, and generally is both a decision and a procedure that practically requires the assistance of a competent, experienced lawyer.

Overall, and this was at least implicit in what I previously posted, whether or not this 44(1) Report is going to result in you losing PR status probably depends on the nature and extent of your settlement in Canada these last few years. Citizenship is not realistically on the table UNLESS and until there is a favourable and final disposition in regards to the Report.

 

[asaeed100]

any updates

 

[MUSTAFACAN]

Ok guys. By grace of god my 44a report has been resolved and i am allowed to remain as PR. The officer has emailed me.

 

[armoured]

Ok guys. By grace of god my 44a report has been resolved and i am allowed to remain as PR. The officer has emailed me.

Good news, but what does the email say? In as much detail as you can share.

Did you/will you get a new PR card, but five years validity this time?

Because circling back to the start of this thread, I assume you still wish to apply for citizenship, and some positive answer to these questions would (hopefully) also indicate that applying for citizenship would be fine, but only speculating.

 

[MUSTAFACAN]

Yes the officer in email said i will receive 5yr card when i apply .

 

[MUSTAFACAN]

Atleast by the grace of Almighty received my 5 year PR card.
Thanks to all members for sharing suggesting and giving advice on my A44 report.

 

[Eusufzai]

Mustafa, have you spoken to a lawyer? I have been issued a(44) report as well and 2 lawyers told me i can file an appeal before the MD contacts me. Clearly it’s not going to be any time soon. I was issued the report last year. No one has contacted me either so far.
Can i have your email address or any contact details. I would like to discuss my case with you since you’re the only person or case i could find similar to mine. You can contact me at saman.shahid@live.com

Hello Samsh,

Greetings! May I know how did you get reported under a(44)? How long were you absent from Canada since you got PR? I am also heading similar situation like you and Mustafa. Would you mind to share your experience at port of entry when you were reported under 44(a).

Thanks and regards,

Eusufzai

 

[canuck78]

Atleast by the grace of Almighty received my 5 year PR card.
Thanks to all members for sharing suggesting and giving advice on my A44 report.

Did your wife and child also get approved? Reading your previous posts it seems as though they got approval for a PRTD because they had been in Canada in the past year. Looked again but was pretty sure I didn’t see that they had been approved for a 5 year PR card and their PR card renewal case was completed closed. I assume you and your family have been living in Canada since arriving in 2018 and haven’t left.

 

[Eusufzai]

Atleast by the grace of Almighty received my 5 year PR card.
Thanks to all members for sharing suggesting and giving advice on my A44 report.

Hi MUSTAFACAN,

Congratulations. Finally you have been issued 5 year PR card. Its the outcome of your hard work and dedication. Anyway, I just want to know a little bit from you. Would you mind to let me know why have you been reported under 44(a). Did you enter Canada violating 2 years residency obligations or have you had any other issue related to 44(a)? I have already violated 2 years residency obligations and afraid of being reporting when I will be back to Canada again. Your experience certainly will help us to prepare if there comes out any such issue.

Thank you.

Eusufzai