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After a44(1) report....when will MD contact?

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
Hi All,

I have applied for PR CARD renewal on H&C basis in 2017. It was refused and I was given a44(1) report and also issued 1 year PR Card.

Again In 2018 I applied for renewal and I was issued 1 year. PR Card.

Now again I applied for renewal of PR Card which is in process.

I have searched on the internet , in forums , websites etc...but I couldn't get information regarding ...how long it takes or maximum time for Minister Delegate to contact the person who got a44(1) report.

It's been more than 2 and half years since I got a44(1) report and Minister Delegate has not contacted me till now .

What is the maximum time within which the MD will contact?

If anyone has the information ....plz share.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,878
2,711
I don’t think their is a maximum time, although your timeline is starting to look unreasonable. I’d be in contact with your MP to follow up with IRCC and determine the current status.
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
I don’t think their is a maximum time, although your timeline is starting to look unreasonable. I’d be in contact with your MP to follow up with IRCC and determine the current status.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Don't you think when I apply for renewal..the officer would get my info from my case file and if necessary contact the MD?
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,878
2,711
I would think that, but the reality is it’s a bureaucracy and sometimes going that little extra isn’t in their job description.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
The situation here has been discussed on and off for a long while now. What looms large is what is unknown. This situation is clearly an outlier. In following PR issues for more than a decade, including reading many dozens if not hundreds of IAD and Federal Court decisions about Residency Obligation issues, I have not seen a comparable case.

There have been some forum anecdotal reports from PRs issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE and then allowed into Canada without being interviewed by another officer (one authorized to act as a Minister's Delegate), who were expecting to be contacted for an interview but many weeks went by without that happening. But other than @MUSTAFACAN few if any of them returned here later to further report about their case or what happened.

In any event, the situation is so unusual we do not have much information to go on.

The dilemma is obvious: so long as there is a 44(1) Report actually outstanding, the PR's days in Canada do NOT count toward RO compliance. These days will be a consideration in an assessment of H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep PR status, but they do not count toward meeting the 730 days in five years obligation.

"Don't you think when I apply for renewal..the officer would get my info from my case file and if necessary contact the MD?"​

It is NOT as if there is a particular Minister's Delegate responsible. All "Minister's Delegate" means is an officer who has authorization to act, to make decisions, on behalf of the Minister. Which I think is most or nearly most CBSA officers working immigration (in contrast to customs), and similarly for IRCC immigration officers in the local offices. The officer who issued the original 44(1) Report quite likely had such authorization, but a different officer, other than the officer who issues the 44(1) Report, must *ACT* as the Minister's Delegate in a given case (an officer cannot review his or her own decision). As I have oft commented, generally the Minister's Delegate is simply another officer at the PoE, and sometimes it is an officer at a different PoE who can interview the PR by telephone.

BUT yes, one would think that by this stage of things IRCC would schedule an interview to address the RO compliance issue, or schedule an interview with an officer who has authorization to act as a Minister's Delegate, or otherwise set the 44(1) Report aside. But again, not having seen anything like this happening to anyone else, it is impossible to guess what is happening or why.

It is NOT certain, even, if the current status of things is really about the 44(1) Report and RO compliance.

I do not recall my past comments about the situation. I am guessing that I have previously suggested it was time to see a lawyer. And, indeed, this seems to be well past the stage at which it would be prudent to at least consult with a competent attorney experienced in immigration law.
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
The situation here has been discussed on and off for a long while now. What looms large is what is unknown. This situation is clearly an outlier. In following PR issues for more than a decade, including reading many dozens if not hundreds of IAD and Federal Court decisions about Residency Obligation issues, I have not seen a comparable case.

There have been some forum anecdotal reports from PRs issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE and then allowed into Canada without being interviewed by another officer (one authorized to act as a Minister's Delegate), who were expecting to be contacted for an interview but many weeks went by without that happening. But other than @MUSTAFACAN few if any of them returned here later to further report about their case or what happened.

In any event, the situation is so unusual we do not have much information to go on.

The dilemma is obvious: so long as there is a 44(1) Report actually outstanding, the PR's days in Canada do NOT count toward RO compliance. These days will be a consideration in an assessment of H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep PR status, but they do not count toward meeting the 730 days in five years obligation.

"Don't you think when I apply for renewal..the officer would get my info from my case file and if necessary contact the MD?"​

It is NOT as if there is a particular Minister's Delegate responsible. All "Minister's Delegate" means is an officer who has authorization to act, to make decisions, on behalf of the Minister. Which I think is most or nearly most CBSA officers working immigration (in contrast to customs), and similarly for IRCC immigration officers in the local offices. The officer who issued the original 44(1) Report quite likely had such authorization, but a different officer, other than the officer who issues the 44(1) Report, must *ACT* as the Minister's Delegate in a given case (an officer cannot review his or her own decision). As I have oft commented, generally the Minister's Delegate is simply another officer at the PoE, and sometimes it is an officer at a different PoE who can interview the PR by telephone.

BUT yes, one would think that by this stage of things IRCC would schedule an interview to address the RO compliance issue, or schedule an interview with an officer who has authorization to act as a Minister's Delegate, or otherwise set the 44(1) Report aside. But again, not having seen anything like this happening to anyone else, it is impossible to guess what is happening or why.

It is NOT certain, even, if the current status of things is really about the 44(1) Report and RO compliance.

I do not recall my past comments about the situation. I am guessing that I have previously suggested it was time to see a lawyer. And, indeed, this seems to be well past the stage at which it would be prudent to at least consult with a competent attorney experienced in immigration law.
Thank you for the reply.

If MD set the a44(1) report aside...how will I come to know...will they contact me and inform?
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
Thank you for the reply.

If MD set the a44(1) report aside...how will I come to know...will they contact me and inform?
Just called the call centre.

They said my card is sent for pick up and I will receive a letter.
They also confirmed it's a 1 year PR Card.
Don't know how long this thing goes on...
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
I have a question...
Will I able to apply for citizenship after I complete 3 years staying in Canada from the date of a44(1) report?
I checked citizenship application and guide..under people not eligible to apply ..it says ..the one who got removal order ..did not mention about a44(1) report .
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,594
13,523
I have a question...
Will I able to apply for citizenship after I complete 3 years staying in Canada from the date of a44(1) report?
I checked citizenship application and guide..under people not eligible to apply ..it says ..the one who got removal order ..did not mention about a44(1) report .
Until you get past the MD approval no time in Canada will count.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Thank you for the reply.

If MD set the a44(1) report aside...how will I come to know...will they contact me and inform?
I have a question...
Will I able to apply for citizenship after I complete 3 years staying in Canada from the date of a44(1) report?
I checked citizenship application and guide..under people not eligible to apply ..it says ..the one who got removal order ..did not mention about a 44(1) report .

SUMMARY OF MY PREVIOUS POST:

You have a rather unusual case. I do not know what the status is or why it is this way. I do not know what CAN happen next let alone what will happen next. I doubt anyone here can much illuminate the situation for you. PROBABLY TIME TO SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER.

THAT NOTED: It may be time to pursue a Writ of Mandamus. But that is a decision regarding which you really need competent legal advice. And to do it, you will need competent legal representation.


SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT CITIZENSHIP ELIGIBILITY:

Without knowing what the underlying issue actually is, an application for citizenship will be, in effect, shooting-in-the-dark. It is NOT likely your case has fallen into a bureaucratic crack. It is far more likely there is SOME CAUSE, some reason why it is where it is. Concern about your compliance with the Residency Obligation APPEARS to be the most likely culprit BUT THIS is FAR FROM CERTAIN.

I suppose an application for citizenship could shake-the-trees (so to say) and what falls out may resolve matters or at least better illuminate the problem. That, however, seems like gambling blind.

And while the Citizenship Act does not appear to impose a prohibition against a grant of citizenship based on an outstanding 44(1) Report, Section 13.1 authorizes the Minister to SUSPEND processing a citizenship application when there is an outstanding issue as to inadmissibility, and to specifically suspend processing pending a determination as to whether a removal order is to be made against the applicant. If (with much emphasis on "IF"), if it is indeed an outstanding, unresolved 44(1) Report for a breach of the RO, that is holding things up for you, it appears 13.1 will apply. Whether or not a Citizenship Officer will actually suspend processing the application based on this I cannot predict.

FRANKLY, to my view there appears to be something in addition to evaluating your compliance with the RO involved in your situation. I do NOT know this. I have little or no idea what that might be. Personally I tend to favour risk-averse approaches, so from my perspective I would want to know more about the situation before forcing IRCC's hand, before shaking-the-trees.

A carefully composed custom ATIP request for records and information MIGHT illuminate more. A generic ATIP request is not likely to illuminate the real issues. So here too, the advice and assistance of a competent lawyer is the more or less obvious way to go.

FRANKLY, HOWEVER, IT STILL COMES BACK TO THIS: You have a rather unusual case. I do not know what the status is or why it is this way. I do not know what CAN happen next let alone what will happen next. I doubt anyone here can much illuminate the situation for you. PROBABLY TIME TO SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER.


Until you get past the MD approval no time in Canada will count.
If you are referring to what counts as days present in Canada for purposes of a grant citizenship application, this is most likely NOT CORRECT.

In particular, I know of NO authority for this.

It is Section 21 in the Citizenship Act that prescribes time periods that will NOT count, and that section only specifies periods of probation, parole, or imprisonment. And as @MUSTAFACAN referenced, the relevant statutory prohibition is for PRs subject to a "Removal Order," not an outstanding 44(1) Report. Moreover, as I referenced above, where there is an outstanding 44(1) Report, the applicable procedure is for the Minister to "suspend" processing the citizenship application. But this is permissive not mandatory, so IRCC may proceed with the citizenship application anyway (but see my observations above, in effect cautioning against shaking-the-trees without advice from a lawyer).

Otherwise, as long as there is an outstanding 44(1) Report, days in Canada do NOT count toward compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. This is prescribed in the IRPA Regulations, Section 62(1)(a). This Regulation specifically applies only to a calculation of days under Section 28(2)(a) in IRPA and thus has NO APPLICATION to the calculation of days under the Citizenship Act.


Relevant Sources:
-- for Citizenship Act Section 13.1, which provides for suspending citizenship application processing pending determination of a 44(1) Report, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-5.html#h-82034
-- for "Periods not counted as physical presence" for purposes of meeting the grant citizenship physical presence requirement, see Citizenship Act Section 21 here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-6.html#docCont
-- for grant citizenship prohibitions beginning with Section 22 in the Citizenship Act, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-7.html#docCont
-- for statutory provisions prescribing the PR Residency Obligation, Section 28 IRPA, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-7.html#h-274598
-- for the IRPA Regulation, Section 62(1)(a), which prescribes that days after being issued a 44(1) Report for a breach of the RO do not count toward compliance with the PR RO (Section 28(2)(a) IRPA), see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-14.html#h-686425
 
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MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
SUMMARY OF MY PREVIOUS POST:

You have a rather unusual case. I do not know what the status is or why it is this way. I do not know what CAN happen next let alone what will happen next. I doubt anyone here can much illuminate the situation for you. PROBABLY TIME TO SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER.

THAT NOTED: It may be time to pursue a Writ of Mandamus. But that is a decision regarding which you really need competent legal advice. And to do it, you will need competent legal representation.


SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT CITIZENSHIP ELIGIBILITY:

Without knowing what the underlying issue actually is, an application for citizenship will be, in effect, shooting-in-the-dark. It is NOT likely your case has fallen into a bureaucratic crack. It is far more likely there is SOME CAUSE, some reason why it is where it is. Concern about your compliance with the Residency Obligation APPEARS to be the most likely culprit BUT THIS is FAR FROM CERTAIN.

I suppose an application for citizenship could shake-the-trees (so to say) and what falls out may resolve matters or at least better illuminate the problem. That, however, seems like gambling blind.

And while the Citizenship Act does not appear to impose a prohibition against a grant of citizenship based on an outstanding 44(1) Report, Section 13.1 authorizes the Minister to SUSPEND processing a citizenship application when there is an outstanding issue as to inadmissibility, and to specifically suspend processing pending a determination as to whether a removal order is to be made against the applicant. If (with much emphasis on "IF"), if it is indeed an outstanding, unresolved 44(1) Report for a breach of the RO, that is holding things up for you, it appears 13.1 will apply. Whether or not a Citizenship Officer will actually suspend processing the application based on this I cannot predict.

FRANKLY, to my view there appears to be something in addition to evaluating your compliance with the RO involved in your situation. I do NOT know this. I have little or no idea what that might be. Personally I tend to favour risk-averse approaches, so from my perspective I would want to know more about the situation before forcing IRCC's hand, before shaking-the-trees.

A carefully composed custom ATIP request for records and information MIGHT illuminate more. A generic ATIP request is not likely to illuminate the real issues. So here too, the advice and assistance of a competent lawyer is the more or less obvious way to go.

FRANKLY, HOWEVER, IT STILL COMES BACK TO THIS: You have a rather unusual case. I do not know what the status is or why it is this way. I do not know what CAN happen next let alone what will happen next. I doubt anyone here can much illuminate the situation for you. PROBABLY TIME TO SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER.




If you are referring to what counts as days present in Canada for purposes of a grant citizenship application, this is most likely NOT CORRECT.

In particular, I know of NO authority for this.

It is Section 21 in the Citizenship Act that prescribes time periods that will NOT count, and that section only specifies periods of probation, parole, or imprisonment. And as @MUSTAFACAN referenced, the relevant statutory prohibition is for PRs subject to a "Removal Order," not an outstanding 44(1) Report. Moreover, as I referenced above, where there is an outstanding 44(1) Report, the applicable procedure is for the Minister to "suspend" processing the citizenship application. But this is permissive not mandatory, so IRCC may proceed with the citizenship application anyway (but see my observations above, in effect cautioning against shaking-the-trees without advice from a lawyer).

Otherwise, as long as there is an outstanding 44(1) Report, days in Canada do NOT count toward compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. This is prescribed in the IRPA Regulations, Section 62(1)(a). This Regulation specifically applies only to a calculation of days under Section 28(2)(a) in IRPA and thus has NO APPLICATION to the calculation of days under the Citizenship Act.


Relevant Sources:
-- for Citizenship Act Section 13.1, which provides for suspending citizenship application processing pending determination of a 44(1) Report, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-5.html#h-82034
-- for "Periods not counted as physical presence" for purposes of meeting the grant citizenship physical presence requirement, see Citizenship Act Section 21 here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-6.html#docCont
-- for grant citizenship prohibitions beginning with Section 22 in the Citizenship Act, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-7.html#docCont
-- for statutory provisions prescribing the PR Residency Obligation, Section 28 IRPA, see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-7.html#h-274598
-- for the IRPA Regulation, Section 62(1)(a), which prescribes that days after being issued a 44(1) Report for a breach of the RO do not count toward compliance with the PR RO (Section 28(2)(a) IRPA), see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-14.html#h-686425
Thanks again for detail reply.

First time Google couldn't help me to get info ...I mean info about case similar to mine.
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
Today picked the 1 year PR Card.

I asked about my a44(1) report and when it will be resolved. The lady said they don't have any idea and I have to wait. I asked about for applying citizenship after my 3 years stay...she said Citizenship is different department and Immigration is different and she can't say anything about citizenship .

So I have to wait till the MD contact me or apply citizenship after my 3 years stay.
 

realmj

Star Member
Jun 10, 2017
92
10
Today picked the 1 year PR Card.

I asked about my a44(1) report and when it will be resolved. The lady said they don't have any idea and I have to wait. I asked about for applying citizenship after my 3 years stay...she said Citizenship is different department and Immigration is different and she can't say anything about citizenship .

So I have to wait till the MD contact me or apply citizenship after my 3 years stay.
If I were you I would try to apply for citizenship if I have satisfied all requirement. The worst case seems you got denied but seems nothing else lost.
 

SamSh

Member
Jun 27, 2019
17
1
Mustafa, have you spoken to a lawyer? I have been issued a(44) report as well and 2 lawyers told me i can file an appeal before the MD contacts me. Clearly it’s not going to be any time soon. I was issued the report last year. No one has contacted me either so far.
Can i have your email address or any contact details. I would like to discuss my case with you since you’re the only person or case i could find similar to mine. You can contact me at saman.shahid@live.com

Today picked the 1 year PR Card.

I asked about my a44(1) report and when it will be resolved. The lady said they don't have any idea and I have to wait. I asked about for applying citizenship after my 3 years stay...she said Citizenship is different department and Immigration is different and she can't say anything about citizenship .

So I have to wait till the MD contact me or apply citizenship after my 3 years stay.