WEIRD behavior from Passport Canada agent, is this normal?

[Dreamlad]

You can't be serious. I must say the worst part of posting here is seeing people defending an archaic system that relies on one's social network in order to be eligible for a passport.

These idiots should work for the PEOPLE. Period.

 

[Survivor27]

Stated under letter "J", Instructions of Adult General Passport Application form:

If you have not known an eligible guarantor for at least two (2) years, complete form PPTC 132, Statutory Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor, available at any
passport office in Canada or any Government of Canada office in the USA. The form must be completed at your expense before a person who is authorized
by law to administer an oath or solemn affirmation. This may delay the processing time of the passport requested.

 

[kmoser]

Stated under letter "J", Instructions of Adult General Passport Application form:

If you have not known an eligible guarantor for at least two (2) years, complete form PPTC 132, Statutory Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor, available at any
passport office in Canada or any Government of Canada office in the USA. The form must be completed at your expense before a person who is authorized
by law to administer an oath or solemn affirmation. This may delay the processing time of the passport requested.

I submitted that but apparently it doesn't apply to people who've been in Canada for a certain number of years (cutoff might be 2 or 3 years - not sure, for me it's been slightly over 5 years) and they only tell you that when you submit your application in person. There's no official mention of it anywhere on the website.

 

[armoured]

You can't be serious. I must say the worst part of posting here is seeing people defending an archaic system that relies on one's social network in order to be eligible for a passport.

I think you've misunderstood. I was not defending. I was explaining my understanding of how the law works.

You refer to your rights. But to have a right does not mean there aren't restrictions on exercising that right, including reasonable administrative requirements.

If you can't show they're unreasonable, you have little basis for a legal complaint that your rights have been denied.

 

[akbardxb]

I think you've misunderstood. I was not defending. I was explaining my understanding of how the law works.

You refer to your rights. But to have a right does not mean there aren't restrictions on exercising that right, including reasonable administrative requirements.

If you can't show they're unreasonable, you have little basis for a legal complaint that your rights have been denied.

You are responding to the wrong person.

 

[armoured]

You are responding to the wrong person.

Mea culpa. I've edited the text to quote from the post I'd intended to reply to, sorry for confusion.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Jesus H Christ . I’ll say it again
Jesus H Christ .The Government isn’t going to change the system that’s been in place for YEARS,for the sole reason that’s there’s been a huge uptake in immigration and people who have elected to immigrate ,aren’t comfortable with it .
Secondly , I’ve had COUNTLESS passports .
Countless. I’ve had to get a guarantor countless times . I’m born here. My ancestors came out west in horse & buggy and settled. Prior to that my ancestors were in this country prior to the American Revolution of 1812. Pre confederation. Prior to that my first ancestor was captured in the late 1600’s and shipped off to France . Fingerprints ? I’ve been fingerprinted countless times in connection with my work. My data is everywhere. Did I once think getting a guarantor was infringing on my rights as a Canadian? Seriously?
Adding, my guarantors have actually been called to verify I am who I said I was . Countless times . Was I upset ? No. Did I once think of complaining? No
I seriously can’t believe this is on peoples agenda when the world is literally going to hell in a hand basket .
Millions have died of the virus and innocent people are getting blown to bits over in Europe
While others are clutching their pearls agonizing and complaining over policy that’s been in play for years .
Constantly looking for things to complain and or nit pick about in the country they CHOSE to immigrate too
It’s the system of the country YOU, chose to immigrate and become a citizen of. Deal with it.
Handle it

 

[empatio]

Jesus H Christ . I’ll say it again
Jesus H Christ .The Government isn’t going to change the system that’s been in place for YEARS,for the sole reason that’s there’s been a huge uptake in immigration and people who have elected to immigrate ,aren’t comfortable with it .
Secondly , I’ve had COUNTLESS passports .
Countless. I’ve had to get a guarantor countless times . I’m born here. My ancestors came out west in horse & buggy and settled. Prior to that my ancestors were in this country prior to the American Revolution of 1812. Pre confederation. Prior to that my first ancestor was captured in the late 1600’s and shipped off to France . Fingerprints ? I’ve been fingerprinted countless times in connection with my work. My data is everywhere. Did I once think getting a guarantor was infringing on my rights as a Canadian? Seriously?
Adding, my guarantors have actually been called to verify I am who I said I was . Countless times . Was I upset ? No. Did I once think of complaining? No
I seriously can’t believe this is on peoples agenda when the world is literally going to hell in a hand basket .
Millions have died of the virus and innocent people are getting blown to bits over in Europe
While others are clutching their pearls agonizing and complaining over policy that’s been in play for years .
Constantly looking for things to complain and or nit pick about in the country they CHOSE to immigrate too
It’s the system of the country YOU, chose to immigrate and become a citizen of. Deal with it.
Handle it

TROLL alert. Someone, please give him a buggy. Please, don't feed the trolls.

 

[Copingwithlife]

TROLL alert. Someone, please give him a buggy.

That’s it ?
Yah ok
If you’re attempting to be witty, it’s a fail
“ Buggy??”
Like a dune buggy ? Golf buggy ?
And you’re applying for citizenship?
Maybe it’s the new “ Fetch “
Hmmm

 

[kmoser]

Jesus H Christ . I’ll say it again
Jesus H Christ .The Government isn’t going to change the system that’s been in place for YEARS,for the sole reason that’s there’s been a huge uptake in immigration and people who have elected to immigrate ,aren’t comfortable with it .
Secondly , I’ve had COUNTLESS passports .
Countless. I’ve had to get a guarantor countless times . I’m born here. My ancestors came out west in horse & buggy and settled. Prior to that my ancestors were in this country prior to the American Revolution of 1812. Pre confederation. Prior to that my first ancestor was captured in the late 1600’s and shipped off to France . Fingerprints ? I’ve been fingerprinted countless times in connection with my work. My data is everywhere. Did I once think getting a guarantor was infringing on my rights as a Canadian? Seriously?
Adding, my guarantors have actually been called to verify I am who I said I was . Countless times . Was I upset ? No. Did I once think of complaining? No
I seriously can’t believe this is on peoples agenda when the world is literally going to hell in a hand basket .
Millions have died of the virus and innocent people are getting blown to bits over in Europe
While others are clutching their pearls agonizing and complaining over policy that’s been in play for years .
Constantly looking for things to complain and or nit pick about in the country they CHOSE to immigrate too
It’s the system of the country YOU, chose to immigrate and become a citizen of. Deal with it.
Handle it

Nobody cares about your ancestors. Secondly, I'll immigrate wherever the heck I want to and yes! I'll complain if things aren't to my liking. And there's nothing YOU can do about that. Cope you sad pathetic troll!

 

[prash42]

Don't let people lacking empathy get you down. I think including a personal statement describing your Asperger's sounds like a good approach. Btw, you are a Canadian citizen, and complaining about archaic government procedures is part of being a good citizen Good luck!

Nobody cares about your ancestors. Secondly, I'll immigrate wherever the heck I want to and yes! I'll complain if things aren't to my liking. And there's nothing YOU can do about that. Cope you sad pathetic troll!

 

[armoured]

I think including a personal statement describing your Asperger's sounds like a good approach. Btw, you are a Canadian citizen, and complaining about archaic government procedures is part of being a good citizen Good luck!

A separate suggestion I'd like to add to this: if you are seriously uncomfortable asking a guarantor (esp considering the references one needs to provide), ask someone that you are more comfortable with to ask others for you. As I suggested above - a religious officiant, a relative, a friend (who can't for whatever reason be a guarantor themselves of course) - ask them if they could assist by making a phone call or two to people you know who could be guarantors.

I know this may seem like more work and in a way it is - but it's really not that hard for someone else to explain so-and-so needs a guarantor, and he/she does not feel comfortable asking because [make up any reason at all, the reason doesn't matter because people like hearing reasons.] "Could you help?" can be a big motivator of a sentence.

 

[Garfield7999]

So I had an in-person passport application appointment yesterday and I don't have a guarantor. I submitted the required statutory declaration in lieu of a guarantor form signed by a commissioner of oath and had to provide 4 references in total, 2 of whom have Canadian passports and with whom I've worked for about 5 years in two different places - they are not really friends, more like formal colleagues that I'm not close to (while they agreed to be my references I'm not 100% sure they would be willing to provide their passport info in order to be my guarantor).

When the agent looked at my application he asked if any of the 4 references are Canadian - those two former colleagues are and like I've explained I've 'known' them for about 5 years but not close or or on 'friendly' terms with them, at which point the agent asked, "Did you try asking them?". I answered no to which he replied that my application will be refused because I've known at least two Canadians for 5 years but don't have a guarantor. I told him I didn't know that I was automatically disqualified for a passport just for that reason (that I know at least one Canadian for 5 years yet that person couldn't or wasn't willing to be my guarantor), he said he was informing me of that reason now as my agent. I replied that I do not think I can be refused for that reason and if I were refused I would be taking legal action because I've followed the procedure for people who don't have a guarantor to the letter. He then made copies of my airline ticket then said to give him a minute, he came back after about 30 seconds and said he just explained my 'situation' to his 'supervisor' (like wft? is it even a 'situation' if I don't have a guarantor but did everything according to the rules, i.e, commissioner of oath and 4 references) and they told him my application will be refused if I submit it. I said I would go ahead and take my chances, when he gave me a pick-up date and my payment receipt I asked him if I will be contacted should my application be denied, he said 'oh yeah they'll call you'.

I dunno but I found my whole interaction with him really odd. Has anyone who applied without a guarantor experienced anything like this? He did say it's a different department that handles these no-guarantor applications. I wonder if they get some sort of bonus for every regular application (with guarantor) that they process which would explain why he kept pushing me to apply with a guarantor (at one point he even said he would give me another in-person appointment this week itself if I can convince one of my former Canadian colleagues to act as my guarantor). Any input or feedback will be appreciated.

Just hangin in there. I would say you will be fine. Maybe the agent woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day. I submitted in person the same documents as you and I was just told to make sure the references are available when they call. They called 2 out of 4 and today I picked up my passport. So all good!!!

 

[Dreamlad]

Come on, guys. Just chill. Everyone's a little over the edge after the pandemic...

 

[kmoser]

Wow kmoser, on this forum for less than 10 days and already you have managed to insult armoured, who obviously spent a lot of time in an effort to assist, and another esteemed member, Copingwith life, doling out the "pathetic troll" calumny. You must be a joy to be around.
Like it or not, Coping is right. The system won't change for you. It won't change for me either.

While I'm no fan of this outdated system it wouldn't bother me as much if it allowed for cases such as mine - according to the website, it does (see post #43 where someone in a similar situation was able to obtain a passport). What I cannot comprehend is the hostile attitude of the agent the moment I told him I don't have a guarantor and was instead submitting the statutory declaration form as per the website. His pushiness and lies are the primary reasons I started this thread. I say lies because if it were true that one is automatically disqualified from obtaining a passport simply on that basis then we wouldn't be seeing posters here claiming the opposite, a search revealed at least 4 such people from this forum alone.

But even if I were seeking to change the system - whether that is within the realm of possibility or not is another discussion - why does that enrage some posters? Why do YOU care if I'm seeking to change it, does it affect your livelihood, do you feel personally threatened? I just don't get it.

Although I cannot lay claim to a provenance to match that of Coping (whose ancestors I believe were settled in Canada before there were dinosaurs), I was born here and have, over the years, paid millions of dollars in income tax, never mind sales taxes, excise taxes, and on and on. Yet, do you think I can get by gf here on a tourist visa? Nope. We received an unsigned letter from a faceless bureaucrat telling us, in effect, that we are both liars and that she won't return to her country at the end of her visit. Am I insulted? Supremely. I feel betrayed by a government that has taxed me to death, while redistributing my money to those who contribute little or nothing to this country. Do I like it that Canada rewards the indolent, not the diligent? Not at all. But that's the way is is. Suck it up buttercup.

Apples and oranges. One is a citizen and the other isn't. Also, why even bring up your lineage and ancestors? How is it relevant to the discussion? You make a lot of assumptions about immigrants. I made 8 figures in capital gains last year (which made it easier for me to quit my job, start my own thing, and never have to deal with toxic, petty workplace politics again) and will be paying more in taxes this year than most Canadians will ever earn in their lifetime. Who are YOU to tell me to "suck it up"?