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Work in Canada involves travel abroad

Strongberry

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Mar 4, 2021
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My work in Canada involves travel internationally, and I'm wondering can the days that I spent abroad count towards my residency obligation? I work full-time in Canada but part of my job is to travel abroad to meet with local clients (around 1 month per year).

Here's the IRCC mentioned cases when time spent abroad can be counted towards PR obligation: (but doesn't have my case)
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

Definition of "Canadian Business" can be found here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/terms-definitions-related-permanent-residence.html#c

If my employer is an international firm such as Walmart, Starbucks. They have stores/offices in Canada but are they considered "Canadian Business" then? Trying to figure this out...

I called CIC but the agent seems unfamiliar with this problem and I don't think I got a definite answer... will call them again today. Just curious if anyone share the same question?
 

Naturgrl

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Apr 5, 2020
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The criteria Is that it is a Canadian business and you use Walmart and Starbucks as examples. They are US businesses. They don’t fit the criteria in the links you provided especially:

- enterprises in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents or businesses and that (all must apply)
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
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My work in Canada involves travel internationally, and I'm wondering can the days that I spent abroad count towards my residency obligation? I work full-time in Canada but part of my job is to travel abroad to meet with local clients (around 1 month per year).

Here's the IRCC mentioned cases when time spent abroad can be counted towards PR obligation: (but doesn't have my case)
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

Definition of "Canadian Business" can be found here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/terms-definitions-related-permanent-residence.html#c

If my employer is an international firm such as Walmart, Starbucks. They have stores/offices in Canada but are they considered "Canadian Business" then? Trying to figure this out...

I called CIC but the agent seems unfamiliar with this problem and I don't think I got a definite answer... will call them again today. Just curious if anyone share the same question?
You need to read through the full requirements. They are in this manual.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

The Regulations enable permanent residents to comply with the residency obligations while working abroad, provided that:

- they are under contract to or are full-time employees of a Canadian business or in the public service, where the assignment is controlled from the head office of a Canadian business or public institution in Canada;
- they are assigned on a full-time basis as a term of their employment or contract to a position outside Canada with that business, an affiliated enterprise or a client;
- they maintain a connection to a Canadian business;
- they are assigned on a temporary basis to the work assignment; and
- they will continue working for the employer, in Canada, after the assignment
 

Strongberry

Member
Mar 4, 2021
12
0
The criteria Is that it is a Canadian business and you use Walmart and Starbucks as examples. They are US businesses. They don’t fit the criteria in the links you provided especially:

- enterprises in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents or businesses and that (all must apply)
I use Walmart and Starbucks as examples because my potential employer is also a US company who has offices in Canada. Just called IRCC the criteria here is, as you mentioned, the definition of "Canadian business". She said if the international company has a Canadian Business number then it would be considered as a Canadian Business under "federally or provincially incorporated businesses that have an ongoing operation in Canada", and that I'll have to verify with the company.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,166
20,649
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I use Walmart and Starbucks as examples because my potential employer is also a US company who has offices in Canada. Just called IRCC the criteria here is, as you mentioned, the definition of "Canadian business". She said if the international company has a Canadian Business number then it would be considered as a Canadian Business under "federally or provincially incorporated businesses that have an ongoing operation in Canada", and that I'll have to verify with the company.
In addition to what I've quoted above, read from page 25 forward in the manual. These are the key details and requirements that you need to meet.
 
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Strongberry

Member
Mar 4, 2021
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You need to read through the full requirements. They are in this manual.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

The Regulations enable permanent residents to comply with the residency obligations while working abroad, provided that:

- they are under contract to or are full-time employees of a Canadian business or in the public service, where the assignment is controlled from the head office of a Canadian business or public institution in Canada;
- they are assigned on a full-time basis as a term of their employment or contract to a position outside Canada with that business, an affiliated enterprise or a client;
- they maintain a connection to a Canadian business;
- they are assigned on a temporary basis to the work assignment; and
- they will continue working for the employer, in Canada, after the assignment
Thank you! Very helpful material. I guess a business trip abroad for 10 days abroad will satisfy the definition of "assignment" here...? I'm still kinda confused but I think the key element would be - the business needs to be Canadian Business (then will have a Canadian head office).
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,166
20,649
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thank you! Very helpful material. I guess a business trip abroad for 10 days abroad will satisfy the definition of "assignment" here...? I'm still kinda confused but I think the key element would be - the business needs to be Canadian Business (then will have a Canadian head office).
Make sure you read through the info on page 25 forward. There are important details in that section for you to consider.
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,166
20,649
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thank you! Very helpful material. I guess a business trip abroad for 10 days abroad will satisfy the definition of "assignment" here...? I'm still kinda confused but I think the key element would be - the business needs to be Canadian Business (then will have a Canadian head office).
IMO this is not an assignment or contract. It's a business trip. Assignment means you've taken a position that is located abroad.
 
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Strongberry

Member
Mar 4, 2021
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IMO this is not an assignment or contract. It's a business trip. Assignment means you've taken a position that is located abroad.
yeah I'm reading the materials now.. hope I can find a formal definition of "business trip" there. Need days to understand the manual lol
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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My work in Canada involves travel internationally, and I'm wondering can the days that I spent abroad count towards my residency obligation? I work full-time in Canada but part of my job is to travel abroad to meet with local clients (around 1 month per year).
In simple practical terms, I'd suggest focussing on meeting the obligation without these business trips 'counting.' The two years in five means that with your month abroad, you'd meet it in ... two years and two months. It's already pretty generous.

Feel free to pursue the other, of course, but the residency obligation is structured to allow quite a lot of time abroad already. And be aware: you will not get pre-approval for your attempted approach - and generally you do not want to be in a situation where you have to justify it post-facto (and potentially get lawyers involved, and face far more inconvenience).
 
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Strongberry

Member
Mar 4, 2021
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In simple practical terms, I'd suggest focussing on meeting the obligation without these business trips 'counting.' The two years in five means that with your month abroad, you'd meet it in ... two years and two months. It's already pretty generous.

Feel free to pursue the other, of course, but the residency obligation is structured to allow quite a lot of time abroad already. And be aware: you will not get pre-approval for your attempted approach - and generally you do not want to be in a situation where you have to justify it post-facto (and potentially get lawyers involved, and face far more inconvenience).
Totally. I unfortunately had already spent quite some time in my home country before I got back to work in Canada, kinda running into the "counting days" scenario now. Worst case scenario would be to change a job which doesn't require travel, or refuse to travel abroad (not sure how will that impact my job), in order to have sufficient number of days which I'm physically present in Canada and satisfy the obligation. At this time point I don't see more chances for travel due to Covid-19 but still just want to thoroughly understand my case.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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Totally. I unfortunately had already spent quite some time in my home country before I got back to work in Canada, kinda running into the "counting days" scenario now. Worst case scenario would be to change a job which doesn't require travel, or refuse to travel abroad (not sure how will that impact my job), in order to have sufficient number of days which I'm physically present in Canada and satisfy the obligation. At this time point I don't see more chances for travel due to Covid-19 but still just want to thoroughly understand my case.
Understood, and good luck.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Totally. I unfortunately had already spent quite some time in my home country before I got back to work in Canada, kinda running into the "counting days" scenario now. Worst case scenario would be to change a job which doesn't require travel, or refuse to travel abroad (not sure how will that impact my job), in order to have sufficient number of days which I'm physically present in Canada and satisfy the obligation. At this time point I don't see more chances for travel due to Covid-19 but still just want to thoroughly understand my case.
OVERVIEW:

There is NO rule that work abroad pursuant to what is labelled a "Business Trip" will not qualify for the credit.


And it is common for some international companies to have a division or corporate entity organized and doing business in Canada, which will meet the criteria for being a "Canadian business" that qualifies for the credit.

So, assuming all the particular elements of the employment relationship otherwise meet the criteria, the working-abroad-for-Canadian-business credit should apply. ("Should" in looking at how the rules actually work sense, in contrast to some moral or what is just sense.)

HOWEVER, the fact that an assignment to work abroad labelled a business trip CAN qualify for the credit does NOT necessarily mean business trips will qualify. The work abroad must otherwise meet ALL the requirements for the credit. And things can otherwise be what might be called real-life-complicated. Note, after all, it will not be an omniscient god deciding whether the PR gets the credit, but a total stranger bureaucrat, or law enforcement officer, a person who is prone to all the sorts of weaknesses and biases anyone might have.


LONGER EXPLANATION and OBSERVATIONS:

Characterizing the work abroad as a "business trip" is largely NOT relevant. The label does not matter. After all, if the "assignment" of a full-time employee is to go to the U.S. to engage in business activity on behalf of the Canadian business, that meets the assigned abroad criteria. Noting, nonetheless, ALL the qualifying criteria must still be met.

In particular, I disagree with the view that business trips will not qualify for the working-abroad-for-Canadian-business credit. It appears that view tends to overlook an "assignment" can be for a single day, a week, a month, or longer (but it must be temporary), and can include engaging in activity that many might describe as a "business trip."

I have discussed this issue in-depth, including here (should link), and NO ONE here has offered any source or citation, let alone link, supporting the view that work abroad will not qualify for the credit because it is labeled a "business trip."

THAT SAID . . . probably a good idea to approach this with MUCH CAUTION . . . what underlies the observations by @armoured warrants serious consideration. As I noted, the fact that business trips abroad can qualify for the credit does NOT necessarily mean they will qualify . . . and, it is important to recognize that what qualifies is a decision made by a total stranger bureaucrat who, just like everyone else, can be (more like will-be) influenced by appearances. What underlies @armoured's suggestion is that in the vast majority of scenarios, for almost all PRs, isolated, occasional, relatively short business trips abroad will NOT make much if any difference, at least not for a PR well-settled, living and working IN Canada.

IN CONTRAST, if such minimal travel will make the difference, at the least that may tend to invite questions, concerns, perhaps even overtly activate suspicion-radar (so to say).

It is something of an overstatement, but I tend to caution that if a PR actually needs the working-abroad-for-Canadian-business credit the chances are the PR will NOT qualify for it. To be clear, this is not the rule. Many PRs successfully rely on this credit to meet their Residency Obligation. BUT there is no doubt, this credit is viewed, interpreted, and applied as a NARROW EXCEPTION to the obligation to be present IN Canada.

Thus, for example, your focus on whether or not working in the employ of an international corporation, whose main headquarters is NOT in Canada, will qualify for the credit, is indeed a matter of concern. Many such companies will have a business situs IN Canada that meets the criteria of a "Canadian business" within the scope of subsection 28(2)(a)(iii) IRPA, which prescribes the credit for days "outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business." BUT it may be rather difficult to explain that to a border official at a PoE who is already suspicious because you have not been in Canada enough to meet the RO. Law enforcement officials (including CBSA officers) tend to bristle (or react even more negatively) when subjects try to tell them what the rules or laws are, let alone how they should be applied.

There are far too many variables to attempt, in a forum like this, drilling down into all the various elements which could influence how things go. Some big ones are obvious: the amount of time you have been IN Canada and the extent to which it is readily apparent you are well settled in Canada. Appearances can matter. Impressions can matter.

Which also leads to the "Walmart and Starbucks" examples. Walmart in particular has a Canadian division, which almost certainly is considered a "Canadian business" (headquartered in Mississauga, Ontario). Relatively easy case . . . SO LONG AS it is readily apparent the PR is employed by the Canadian business, and not an employee of Walmart in the U.S. (or elsewhere). Subject, perhaps, to a little risk a CBSA officer might not, so to say, get-it.

A lot of businesses may not be so easily characterized. Consider Walmart again. It is not the fact that Walmart has "stores in Canada" that makes it a "Canadian business." It is the fact that Walmart has a business entity legally organized as a Canadian business, for the purpose of engaging in business in Canada, in conjunction with the fact that that business entity is indeed engaged in doing business in Canada. And is readily seen as such.

And in this regard, just being legally organized in Canada is NOT enough.

Also warrants noting there are different practical concerns if your concern is about what CBSA officers might do when you are examined upon your return to Canada, or your concern is about how IRCC will handle your application for a new PR card. Both of these can be influenced (a lot) by other factors. (@canuck78 references some such aspects below.)

Bottom-line: there is some risk relying on the credit in the scenario you describe. Perhaps that is a risk of inconvenience more than outright losing PR status -- but this depends on the details. One could generalize some, say that the longer you are IN Canada, and more well established in Canada, prior to a trip abroad, the lower the risk. The shorter the trip abroad and the more obvious you went abroad for a business trip pursuant to employment with a readily recognized Canadian business, the lower the risk. And so on. But any such risk-assessment (1) does not definitively indicate how it will actually go, and (2) is very much subject to the influence of other factors (not the least of which is the PR's overall history).
 
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canuck78

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Totally. I unfortunately had already spent quite some time in my home country before I got back to work in Canada, kinda running into the "counting days" scenario now. Worst case scenario would be to change a job which doesn't require travel, or refuse to travel abroad (not sure how will that impact my job), in order to have sufficient number of days which I'm physically present in Canada and satisfy the obligation. At this time point I don't see more chances for travel due to Covid-19 but still just want to thoroughly understand my case.
Unfortunately people don't think through returning to Canada very close to the 3 year mark. We see it all the time on this forum.