Work Eligibility for Expired PR and Not Meeting RO

[hangshus]

Hi guys,

Need your help here. My PR expired and I haven't met residence obligation. I came back to Canada from US by land early October this year. My plan is to stay in Canada for 2 years and then renew my PR card.

I recently found a job and the employer is using Sterling Backcheck to conduct background check on me. In one section, it asks for my eligibility to work. I can either provide my PR card or COPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence) to prove my status. Since my PR card is expired, I provided my COPR document. But there is also a part on COPR called "expiry date", right next to "travel document no". That date is also expired but that date matches with my travel document expiry date. So I believe that is the expiry date for my travel document.

Now the Sterling Backcheck believes my COPR is expired and asks me to provide a valid proof of identity document. What can I do guys? Has anyone encountered this situation?

 

[armoured]

Hi guys,

Need your help here. My PR expired and I haven't met residence obligation. I came back to Canada from US by land early October this year. My plan is to stay in Canada for 2 years and then renew my PR card.

I recently found a job and the employer is using Sterling Backcheck to conduct background check on me. In one section, it asks for my eligibility to work. I can either provide my PR card or COPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence) to prove my status. Since my PR card is expired, I provided my COPR document. But there is also a part on COPR called "expiry date", right next to "travel document no". That date is also expired but that date matches with my travel document expiry date. So I believe that is the expiry date for my travel document.

Now the Sterling Backcheck believes my COPR is expired and asks me to provide a valid proof of identity document. What can I do guys? Has anyone encountered this situation?

-Your COPR does not 'expire', once it is signed at landing it is an historical document showing ... the date you landed.
-You are correct that the 'expiry date' shown in the block under "Personal Details - PA" actually refers to the expiry date of the passport you used to come to Canada/land.
-There is a valid to date under medical, that only applies to the medical - although it does usually coincide with last day for landing. (It can actually be past validity for travel to Canada - this block does not show medical extensions allowed, but that's not relevant here and also rare).
-The date shown on your immigration visa (IM-1?) in the passport was the last date allowable for you to land.

So: Sterling Backcheck has this wrong. The COPR (once signed) never expires. It is proof you landed.

PR card is a different matter - absence of a PR card does not mean you are not a PR.

Unfortunately you have no good way to prove to them your current PR status is valid. (It technically is a "you are a PR until proven otherwise" - but they have no way to check).

In theory they SHOULD accept that your COPR/expired PR is proof that you were a PR, and they have no reason to believe that you are not.

Here's where I think your best chances are but I cannot say for certain: a SIN for a PR that has status revoked should be cancelled - so if your SIN is still valid, ... you are still a PR.

Your SIN should be sufficient to work, and a) I think there is a way for employers to check a SIN is still valid, and b) if/when they start reporting wages and taxes remitted using that SIN, that would also show you are still a PR.

Depending on the job, though, this type of background-check company may or may not be willing to proceed this way.

Good luck.

 

[Ponga]

Hi guys,

Need your help here. My PR expired and I haven't met residence obligation. I came back to Canada from US by land early October this year. My plan is to stay in Canada for 2 years and then renew my PR card.

I recently found a job and the employer is using Sterling Backcheck to conduct background check on me. In one section, it asks for my eligibility to work. I can either provide my PR card or COPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence) to prove my status. Since my PR card is expired, I provided my COPR document. But there is also a part on COPR called "expiry date", right next to "travel document no". That date is also expired but that date matches with my travel document expiry date. So I believe that is the expiry date for my travel document.

Now the Sterling Backcheck believes my COPR is expired and asks me to provide a valid proof of identity document. What can I do guys? Has anyone encountered this situation?

Well, you have admitted that even though you were able to successfully return to Canada last month, you are currently in breach of the R.O. to maintain your PR Status. This is a bit of a quandary, IMHO.

From IRCC (formerly CIC) op10-enforcement manual, pg 18:


8.1 Holders of permanent resident cards
The permanent resident card is a status document as defined in the R53(1). A person who is in possession of a permanent resident card is presumed to be a permanent resident of Canada underA31(2)(a)...

Clearly, this means a valid PRC, so you do not benefit from this.

I do agree that your CoPR should satisfy the Sterling Backcheck requirement.

Good luck!

 

[armoured]

From IRCC (formerly CIC) op10-enforcement manual, pg 18:


8.1 Holders of permanent resident cards
The permanent resident card is a status document as defined in the R53(1). A person who is in possession of a permanent resident card is presumed to be a permanent resident of Canada underA31(2)(a)...

I agree with your overall point, and that the expired PR card can be an issue (in practice, anyway) - but note that the manual you're citing is explicitly noted as "Overseas Processing", and for purposes of assessing residency status when the subject is outside Canada. This question of the presumption is not so evident when the subject is in Canada, IMO.

Still leaves the poster in the unenviable position of having to convince a third-party company to accept the logic that, well, there's nothing saying he isn't a PR (as proof that he is).

 

[Ponga]

I agree with your overall point, and that the expired PR card can be an issue (in practice, anyway) - but note that the manual you're citing is explicitly noted as "Overseas Processing", and for purposes of assessing residency status when the subject is outside Canada. This question of the presumption is not so evident when the subject is in Canada, IMO.

Still leaves the poster in the unenviable position of having to convince a third-party company to accept the logic that, well, there's nothing saying he isn't a PR (as proof that he is).

Here's something from an Inland Enforcement Manual that may help the OP:

11.2 Verifying PR status

The Permanent Resident Card is the best evidence of PR status in Canada.
The following documents may be satisfactory indicators of permanent residence

• 
   the original Record of Landing (such as IMM 1000);
  
• 
   a certified true copy of a Record of Landing document issued by IRCC National Headquarters (NHQ);
  
• 
   a letter issued by IRCC NHQ verifying permanent residence
  
• 
   a passport duly stamped showing the date on which permanent residence was granted if the person was granted PR status before 1973;
• 
   a Confirmation of Permanent Residence form [IMM 5292B or IMM 5688]; and
  
• 
   a permanent resident travel document (visa counterfoil).
  

 

[dudabrodzeli]

Hello Guys, Sorry I am posting this here
Can anyone advice me is this work permit and can i work with it?

 

[Buletruck]

I agree with your overall point, and that the expired PR card can be an issue (in practice, anyway) - but note that the manual you're citing is explicitly noted as "Overseas Processing", and for purposes of assessing residency status when the subject is outside Canada. This question of the presumption is not so evident when the subject is in Canada, IMO.

Still leaves the poster in the unenviable position of having to convince a third-party company to accept the logic that, well, there's nothing saying he isn't a PR (as proof that he is).

Just like to point out that your SIN number also indicates your status in the country. The First digit identifies whether you are a citizen/PR or on a WP/SV. This should suffice as adequate proof.

 

[armoured]

Just like to point out that your SIN number also indicates your status in the country. The First digit identifies whether you are a citizen/PR or on a WP/SV. This should suffice as adequate proof.

Very good point! Do you know - does revocation of PR status result in cancellation/hold or whatever on the SIN? Or at least some reaction if use of the SIN occurs if SIN is used after revocation?

Man, I'd hate to have to find the operational manual related to this at employment ministry.

 

[armoured]

Hello Guys, Sorry I am posting this here
Can anyone advice me is this work permit and can i work with it?

Post in the relevant forum, about temporary work or whatever way it was obtained. This forum about permanent residence, and permanent residents do not need work permits.

 

[hangshus]

Very good point! Do you know - does revocation of PR status result in cancellation/hold or whatever on the SIN? Or at least some reaction if use of the SIN occurs if SIN is used after revocation?

Man, I'd hate to have to find the operational manual related to this at employment ministry.

Thank you for your reply and advice. I was thinking explain to Sterling Backcheck that the expiry date on COPR is the expiry date of my travel document and provide my previous travel document information page. Along with confirmation of my SIN. I just went to Service Canada and the staff there saying my COPR expired so they can’t print confirmation of SIN for me even though I explained to them that expiry date is not for COPR. They ask me to contact IRCC to find out my status. Should I still make the same explanation to Sterling Backcheck and provide confirmation of SIN from Service Canada website?

 

[armoured]

Thank you for your reply and advice. I was thinking explain to Sterling Backcheck that the expiry date on COPR is the expiry date of my travel document and provide my previous travel document information page. Along with confirmation of my SIN. I just went to Service Canada and the staff there saying my COPR expired so they can’t print confirmation of SIN for me even though I explained to them that expiry date is not for COPR. They ask me to contact IRCC to find out my status. Should I still make the same explanation to Sterling Backcheck and provide confirmation of SIN from Service Canada website?

You can try all of the above. I wouldn't go into the bit that service canada says COPR expired though (they're technically incorrect, IMO).

Show confirmation of your SIN (what is that?) and tell them they can check that. As noted above, the type shows that it is a PR SIN.

I note that an employer can check with Service Canada whether a SIN is valid - https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin/reports/code-of-practice.html "If in doubt about whether an employee’s SIN is valid, contact Service Canada’s Social Insurance Number program:". I do not know if they will verify the identity linked with it (I presume so, as otherwise would be of limited use, but don't know).

Unfortunately I do not know of a way that an individual can 'confirm their status' in the way you are asking i.e. that will result in a confirmation that the person is still a PR. [I think this is ridiculous but that doesn't help you.]

The process IRCC has will only result in a verification of status that reiterates the info from the COPR (it basically is a copy of the COPR but in different form):
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html

No-one seems to have come up with a way to get a straightforward confirmation. (I'd speculate that it SHOULD be possible to apply for eg a visitor visa or ETA and when you get the response saying 'you are not eligible because you're a PR', use that! Aha!

Except back to square one, you have to convince someone to accept that as proof you are a PR. (So no, don't try this).

As for the COPR: I think the expiry date shown on it is rather obviously that of the travel doc number. It's listed under Personal Details, not some other section, and split out. That same section has an area called "became PR at / on" (for place of entry and date), and is signed by the immigration officer. It includes for example two parts you have to initial / declare (about criminal charges and any other dependents).

So as I said: that's the document that shows you became a PR. It's just not easy to show that you have not 'become a non-PR'.

 

[hangshus]

Go away, chatbot gibberish spammer. On top of anything else, it's incorrect gibberish: a permanent resident is entitled to work - period.

Thanks Armoured!

I am reading below from IRCC website and will provide this link to employer in case they ask. The issue is how I can prove I don't already lose my PR status. I don't know if an affidavit would work stating I haven't gone through below process and I am still a PR.


Losing your permanent resident status
You won’t lose your PR status when your PR card expires.
You will only lose your PR status if

• an officer determines you are no longer a PR after an inquiry or PRTD appeal following a refusal
• you voluntarily renounce your PR status
• a removal order made against you comes into force
• you become a Canadian citizen

Even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you will stay a PR until an official decision is made on your status.

 

[armoured]

Thanks Armoured!

I am reading below from IRCC website and will provide this link to employer in case they ask. The issue is how I can prove I don't already lose my PR status. I don't know if an affidavit would work stating I haven't gone through below process and I am still a PR.

Good luck, let others know how it works out. I get the impression that most that have been in this situation have ended up convincing employers - but perhaps not always, and perhaps not the first employers they spoke with.

I'm curious - did your passport get stamped by the border official when you arrived?

 

[hangshus]

Good luck, let others know how it works out. I get the impression that most that have been in this situation have ended up convincing employers - but perhaps not always, and perhaps not the first employers they spoke with.

I'm curious - did your passport get stamped by the border official when you arrived?

Thanks! Mine didn't get the stamp. But I checked I94 and it did show I left the US on the date of my entry to Canada. I am requesting a ATIP to CBSA just to make sure I got entry record from CBSA.

 

[armoured]

Thanks! Mine didn't get the stamp. But I checked I94 and it did show I left the US on the date of my entry to Canada. I am requesting a ATIP to CBSA just to make sure I got entry record from CBSA.

I'll be equally interested to see if the ATIP identifies you as a PR.