Will UK Caution make me inadmissible for PR, even though i live in Canada now?

[jsadl01]

Hi,

I have just come to the end of my 2 year work permit in Canada, married a Canadian while i was here and am full time employed. I went through express entry, provided my police certificate which has 2 cautions from the UK on it. One for damage to property of less than 5k and one for battery. These are cautions, no charges or convictions so i had no issues getting my work permit and it's not been an issue ever before.

In my PR application i've just been asked to provide further details of the incident including a letter of explination and an original police report of the incident (which takes 40 days to get so i'm also having to request an extension to provide this!).

Do you anticipate these cautions from September 2012 being an issue to my application for PR? I have seen in some cases even convictions are considered spent after 3 years, but i can't find the rules on cautions and i'm panicking a bit that after setting up my life here, it could turn bad and i could be inadmissible for PR.

Any advice is great!

 

[Mapleson]

That battery jumps out as a huge red flag. It'll depend on the details as to how it translates into Canada.

36. (1) A permanent resident or a foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of serious criminality for
(a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years, or of an offence under an Act of Parliament for which a term of imprisonment of more than six months has been imposed;
(b) having been convicted of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years; or
(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/conviction.asp

 

[Ponga]

36. (1) A permanent resident or a foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of serious criminality for
(a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years, or of an offence under an Act of Parliament for which a term of imprisonment of more than six months has been imposed;
(b) having been convicted of an offence outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years; or
(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years.

Since the OP was neither charged, or convicted of battery, I don't see how this would apply. Even (c) wouldn't seem to apply because I don't think that battery would carry a sentence of 10 years, or more in Canada.

However, the last part of the last sentence seems contradictory: "...punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years."

Which is it...a maximum term of 10 years, or at least 10 years? How can it be both?

 

[Cedeel]

Because laws carry maximum prison terms. They are asking that the maximum prison term for a specific be at least 10 years.

 

[wowsers]

(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years.
However, the last part of the last sentence seems contradictory: "...punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years."
Which is it...a maximum term of 10 years, or at least 10 years? How can it be both?

Dealing first of all with Ponga's point, there is no contradiction. If (c) simply said 'punishable by a maximum term of ten years' an act punishable with a maximum term of (say)15 years would fall outside the provision. The 15 year term conduct is covered by the provision if the words 'at least' are added. As for the remainder of the provisions, the OP has not been convicted either in Canada or in the UK: a caution is not a conviction in the UK and the OP has not been convicted in Canada. So both (a) and (b) are inapplicable. So far as (c) is concerned the issue is simply whether what he did (ie the act committed outside Canada) was punishable in Canada by a maximum term of imprisonment of 10 years or more. The OP has told us next to nothing about the conduct which resulted in the cautions. All we know is that one of the cautions arose from criminal damage of less than '5k' (?C$? £?) and the other arose from a battery. A battery is now a statutory offence in the UK under section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, punishable with a maximum term of imprisonment of 6 months; so at the very bottom of the scale of punishment. However that is not the issue: for (c) it is necessary to inquire what the maximum sentence would have been if, hypothetically, the act had been committed in Canada. I am not a Canadian lawyer and so I am not going to express any opinion about that. A caution in the UK for a battery suggests that the act committed was not particularly serious and if that is reflected in the original police report now requested by the VO and/or in the letter of explanation by the OP the chances of CIC taking a lenient view of his conduct appear to be quite good. As for the criminal damage, the facts presented by the OP are at present far too vague. The OP will need to clarify the facts if he really needs an answer to his query; and in any event he must supply the info requested by the VO.

 

[jsadl01]

To give a little context, while i'm far from proud of this, it might give clarity. While at a house party, one of the neighbors had had enough, knocked on the door and as soon as i opened it he hit me. I chased him, he closed his door and i kicked the door. Damage was for the door, and battery was because he claimed i pushed him first (This isn't true, but it doesn't matter since it's on my record).

After more research i'm leaning toward agreeing with these previous posters here, there was no charge or conviction but the ambiguity comes from cautions not be translated into Canadian law. I'm in the progress of trying to get a police record for the incident, not really sure how though. And i'm writing my explanation letter, any tips there would be really appreciated!

 

[Aquakitty]

To give a little context, while i'm far from proud of this, it might give clarity. While at a house party, one of the neighbors had had enough, knocked on the door and as soon as i opened it he hit me. I chased him, he closed his door and i kicked the door. Damage was for the door, and battery was because he claimed i pushed him first (This isn't true, but it doesn't matter since it's on my record).

After more research i'm leaning toward agreeing with these previous posters here, there was no charge or conviction but the ambiguity comes from cautions not be translated into Canadian law. I'm in the progress of trying to get a police record for the incident, not really sure how though. And i'm writing my explanation letter, any tips there would be really appreciated!

Sorry I don't have any information on this situation, but I'm curious, how did you get just a work permit under EE, why didn't you get your PR under this?

 

[jsadl01]

Sorry I don't have any information on this situation, but I'm curious, how did you get just a work permit under EE, why didn't you get your PR under this?

This you misunderstood. Im on a work permit in Canada applying for PR through EE

 

[Aquakitty]

This you misunderstood. Im on a work permit in Canada applying for PR through EE

Ahh, because you posted this on the spousal/family PR forums, I was wondering why you were going for spousal when you were in EE.

 

[Ponga]

Because laws carry maximum prison terms. They are asking that the maximum prison term for a specific be at least 10 years.

Not sure how/why I didn't figure that out on my own, but...+1 to you for `opening my eyes'. LOL!

 

[krishan1310]

Hello all,
Please help me out !
I have caution in my UK pcc, that was for just stupid mistake happened in 2011 as below:
I went with one of my friend for cashing a cheque which he has gotten form onilne job fraud. As my friend was poor in English so he asked me to go with him and I did same. But the store person then called police and we got to know that the cheque was fraud and fake,therefore police took us both as I was translator so they took me as well, after few hours they released us after taking our fingerprints and all belongings that we have had with us at the time of incident. then after 1 month they gave all our belongings back and asked us that if u dnt want to take this matter into deep to the court you can just sign a caution about this and then there will be no harm in it and it will not create any issues in jobs and disclosure. and that is how I have received caution in PCC.

Now I have got an ITA in EE profile , I am so worried that this PCC will create any problem in my PR application or what?
Please help me someone.

 

[jsadl01]

I can probably help here, my caution was causing me problems (hence me creating this thread) but i've recently been approved and my PR card is on its way.

Cautions don't translate into Canadian law, i wrote an explanation letter detailing the incident, mentioning my position in Canada (i have a job, am married and have never been in trouble), and mentioned that under the UK act of 1973 (or whatever it is) cautions are considered spent immediately. Once they read this, i was approved almost straight away.

I wouldn't worry about your caution, obviously everyone case is different but imo your fine.

 

[sarah666]

I can probably help here, my caution was causing me problems (hence me creating this thread) but i've recently been approved and my PR card is on its way.

Cautions don't translate into Canadian law, i wrote an explanation letter detailing the incident, mentioning my position in Canada (i have a job, am married and have never been in trouble), and mentioned that under the UK act of 1973 (or whatever it is) cautions are considered spent immediately. Once they read this, i was approved almost straight away.

I wouldn't worry about your caution, obviously everyone case is different but imo your fine.

Hi there, congratulations on your PR! That is great news.

I find myself in the same situation as you. I did something rather silly and received a conditional caution for fraud (it is similar to a caution except that the condition was that I reimburse the amount I defrauded back, which I did). I came to Canada on a work permit 2 years ago (work permit expires next year) and since then got married. I haven't applied for PR because I am so terrified that they will deport me. Reading your outcome gave me some relief.

I have a couple of questions please:
- you said the caution gave you problems, may I please ask what kind of problems?
- Did they ask for any letters from people you know in Canada as a character reference?

Thank you so much.

 

[jsadl01]

The only problems i had were 100% down to immigration not being sure what it was, so on one or two occasions i was asked to provide additional detail and both times all i did was submit a letter of explanation (literally just typed out what a caution is, and the fact it is considered spent in the UK). No references or anything like that. Most of the stress i got from the caution was my own fault, even when it was a complete non-issue i was worrying about it (like you are!) and it turns out to be no big deal at all...

I honestly wouldn't worry, if you're here now on the 2 year permit (as i am) then you've already passed the same background check. The only difference now is that it was even longer ago you actually had this incident! So even less to worry about

 

[Gsingh1]

Hi I am applying for a pr card now as I am l living in Canada already and now married. My concern is did you have to provide the original police report also did you have to give details of what happened? Please get back to me ASAP as I’m going through the same thing you was. Thanks