why the rush for citizenship... PR is the same thing guys!

[chibiks]

ok I have been thinking about this lately. I think that benefits of Candian Citizenship are marginal at best. If anything, it can be a serious disadvantage. Because it exposes you to worldwide taxation on even your assets in your home country which had nothing to do with Canada before you came here. The bottom line is anything you can get with citizenship, you can get with PR - the consular benefits dont apply as frequently. So why the frenzied rush for citizenship. If someone just decides to have only PR and is ok with it, what are the cons?

 

[swindsor2010]

pride, sense of belonging, love for the country. PR is good, but it's not the same thing.

 

[SenoritaBella]

A few things to keep in mind:

1. The "serious criminality" law - any temporary resident(worker/student/visitor) and PR who commits a serious crime in Canada may be deported if the sentence is 6 months or more. No room for appeals anymore (a loophole convicted criminals had used in the past to delay deportation).
A notorious gang member from Vancouver was deported to China about 2 yrs ago. He had been a PR for about 20 yrs and never applied for citizenship. Eventhough his lawyer argued that he came here as a toddler and knows nothing about China, the gov't sent him packing.

2. As a PR, you are expected to report all of your income anyway as long as you are a resident for tax purposes(i.e. spent at least 183 days in a year in Canada).

3. PRs can not vote or do jobs that require high security clearance. If you are spending most of your time here, it only makes sense to be able to take part in the democratic process by voting.

4. As a PR, if you find yourself in a serious legal matter(e.g. arrest and detention), the Canadian gov't for the most part will not have jurisdiction. You entered using your home country's passport, so the authorities can lay claim that you are afterall their citizen. This would also apply if you have dual citizenship but enter with your home country's passport, they will have the upper hand over Canada.
On the otherhand, if you entered with your Canadian passport, the Canadian gov't will have a stronger hand in negotiating your release. I found out about this when reading the case of the Egyptian-Canadian who was detained in Egypt or Syria (I forget now).

5. If you don't come from a visa-exempt country, it means applying for a visa to travel to the US, and pretty much everywhere else in the world. It also means you are restricted when booking flights i.e. trying to avoid airports where you will need a transit visa even to remain in the international terminal.

6. If you end up marrying a foreign national and wish to sponsor them, only Canadian citizens can live abroad during the entire sponsorship process(but must show intent to return to Canada). PRs would have to be living in Canada (short visits allowed) to sponsor.

Example: a PR wife sponsoring her husband. She visits him for 1 month, becomes pregnant, returns to Canada and has the baby. She wants to spend her maternity leave with her hubby so that he can also bond with his child. But it's a risk staying abroad for like 6 - 8 months because his sponsorship could be refused. If she was a Canadian citizen, she would not have this dilemma. Same thing with a PR husband who wants to go spend time abroad with his wife and new baby. See what I mean?

 

[newtone]

1. Try traveling with certain types of passports and you'll be frisked each time you are entering a country.
2. Visa cost
3. In order to get visa to travel to certain countries you need to show bank balance, property, job, assets and various other things. Not everybody has a rolling $10,000 in their bank every month

 

[Inmate]

Because it exposes you to worldwide taxation on even your assets in your home country which had nothing to do with Canada before you came here.

Wrong, PR or citizenship doesn't change anything about tax.
If you are a fiscal resident (note fiscal residence is totally different from your legal status, even if in reality, of course, most of PR and citizen are fiscal resident), so you must provide informations about your world income. If not, you don't have to do that (= for exemple, you're canadian but you're living in Australia. You don't have any income from Canada. In this case, you don't have to pay any tax in Canada).

 

[keesio]

Interesting question. I think some of it has to do with what passport your help before citizenship. If it was from a country that requires visas to visit many countries, then having a Canadian passport can be a big deal. Also a Canadian passport allows you perks under NAFTA like a TN1 visa to the US. It is no secret that many PRs want to explore the greater financial opportunities available in the US. Of course voting and such can be a big deal but I find that most do not really care (unfortunately).

As someone from the US, it was a sense of wanting to become "Canadian". I was here for over 13 years before I became a citizen. I really felt Canadian by that time and making it official felt nice. The other benefits I mentioned earlier did not apply since I have US passport which allows me visa-exempt access to many countries anyway and of course I don't need a TN1 visa since I am already an American. But being able to vote is nice. I didn't really care my first several years or so but after awhile when I got pretty familiar with politics here I felt more desire to have a voice.

I do know a few people who have been PRs for decades. Some don't want to bother with applying even though they live full-time in Canada. Some want to hold their current citizenship which is from a country that doesn't allow dual. My dad was like that in the US. He held a US green card for 40+ years since his country of birth did not allow dual until recently (South Korea).

 

[Pureminded]

As someone from the US, it was a sense of wanting to become "Canadian". I was here for over 13 years before I became a citizen. I really felt Canadian by that time and making it official felt nice.

What's being "Canadian" for you? What are the values that a "Canadian" shares and let's say an "American" doesn't?

 

[Michels]

ok I have been thinking about this lately. I think that benefits of Candian Citizenship are marginal at best. If anything, it can be a serious disadvantage. Because it exposes you to worldwide taxation on even your assets in your home country which had nothing to do with Canada before you came here. The bottom line is anything you can get with citizenship, you can get with PR - the consular benefits dont apply as frequently. So why the frenzied rush for citizenship. If someone just decides to have only PR and is ok with it, what are the cons?

The difference is like the Moon and the Sun.
A PR is not a citizen - A Canadian Is A citizen
A PR cannot decide the future of this country by voting - A Canadian Citizen Can
A PR did not swear allegiance to Canada.. PRs come embracing the country and Citizenship is the last milestone to becoming Canadian.

So there is a HUGE difference between a PR and a Citizen

 

[meyakanor]

I do know a few people who have been PRs for decades. Some don't want to bother with applying even though they live full-time in Canada. Some want to hold their current citizenship which is from a country that doesn't allow dual. My dad was like that in the US. He held a US green card for 40+ years since his country of birth did not allow dual until recently (South Korea).

I know a lot of decades-long green card holders, and they did not seem to feel the need to apply for citizenship, despite holding passports that would require visas to visit a lot of countries (Chinese, Indian, other Asians, etc). There does not seem to be a rush to become Americans among these people.

However, a lot of Canadian PRs seem to express desire to naturalize the moment they qualify. Despite what CBSA read to us during landing that PRs hold all the same rights as citizens expect for the right to vote, the rights that most people care the most seem to be the right to hold Canadian passports, the right to stay out of the country indefinitely without risking losing immigration status, and, obviously, NAFTA.

 

[zwho]

Ever since I became a permanent resident after being on student visa for 2 years, I thought exactly like you. What's the rush? You just can't vote and have canadian passport, that's all. Luckily my home country's passport is so valuable (South Korean) when travelling, I really didn't think I should get citizenship as soon as possible. Some people I know did not acquire citizenship though they have lived in Canada more than a decade only because their countries did not allow dual citizenship and they don't want to renounce their motherland nationality(South Korea, Japan). But the thing completely changed to me as Harper's Conservatives challenged current PRs and changed the law. As I decided to live in this country for the rest of my life, I realized that I need the same rights as Canadian-born people have like right to vote. Besides, I want to feel the sense of belonging to this country. I do not understand Conservatives when it comes to this C-24 changes cause they're going a wrong direction. I mean, shouldn't the government encourage PRs to become citizens for integration and national identity? And most importantly, PRs are not Canadians, they're still foreign nationals.

Posted by: chibiks
ok I have been thinking about this lately. I think that benefits of Candian Citizenship are marginal at best. If anything, it can be a serious disadvantage. Because it exposes you to worldwide taxation on even your assets in your home country which had nothing to do with Canada before you came here. The bottom line is anything you can get with citizenship, you can get with PR - the consular benefits dont apply as frequently. So why the frenzied rush for citizenship. If someone just decides to have only PR and is ok with it, what are the cons?

 

[Michels]

Ever since I became a permanent resident after being on student visa for 2 years, I thought exactly like you. What's the rush? You just can't vote and have canadian passport, that's all. Luckily my home country's passport is so valuable (South Korean) when travelling, I really didn't think I should get citizenship as soon as possible. Some people I know did not acquire citizenship though they have lived in Canada more than a decade only because their countries did not allow dual citizenship and they don't want to renounce their motherland nationality(South Korea, Japan). But the thing completely changed to me as Harper's Conservatives challenged current PRs and changed the law. As I decided to live in this country for the rest of my life, I realized that I need the same rights as Canadian-born people have like right to vote. Besides, I want to feel the sense of belonging to this country. I do not understand Conservatives when it comes to this C-24 changes cause they're going a wrong direction. I mean, shouldn't the government encourage PRs to become citizens for integration and national identity? And most importantly, PRs are not Canadians, they're still foreign nationals.

Your vote can bring change

 

[keesio]

What's being "Canadian" for you? What are the values that a "Canadian" shares and let's say an "American" doesn't?

It is not about any specific set of values. Being "Canadian" meant holding a Canadian citizenship. Feeling "Canadian" meant culturally I identified with Canada. I understood the history, rooted for our athletes in international competition, felt connected to the land and culture. When I used to discuss and provide insight on Canada with others, people would sometimes retort "but you're not even really Canadian" like my opinion meant less because of it! They can't say that anymore

 

[keesio]

I do not understand Conservatives when it comes to this C-24 changes cause they're going a wrong direction. I mean, shouldn't the government encourage PRs to become citizens for integration and national identity? And most importantly, PRs are not Canadians, they're still foreign nationals.

You mentioned South Korea and Japan. Naturalization for those two countries are tougher than Canada, even after C-24. South Korea only recently allowed dual citizenship and only for specific circumstances. For Japan, it was always tricky.

Also, the point of C-24 is to encourage PRs to commit to Canada (at least that is how it is portrayed). It is no more different that the laws that South Korea and Japan have like 5 years continuous living in the country (which is more strict than Canada). And Canada doesn't have the restrictions like those countries on dual-citizenship.

 

[keesio]

I know a lot of decades-long green card holders, and they did not seem to feel the need to apply for citizenship, despite holding passports that would require visas to visit a lot of countries (Chinese, Indian, other Asians, etc). There does not seem to be a rush to become Americans among these people.

However, a lot of Canadian PRs seem to express desire to naturalize the moment they qualify. Despite what CBSA read to us during landing that PRs hold all the same rights as citizens expect for the right to vote, the rights that most people care the most seem to be the right to hold Canadian passports, the right to stay out of the country indefinitely without risking losing immigration status, and, obviously, NAFTA.

A lot of those countries you mentioned have restrictions on dual citizenship. So they hang on to their original citizenship. If you plan on staying in the US, having a green card is almost the same. My dad had one for 40+ years.

The big thing with Canadian PRs vs American green card holders is that desire for Canadian PRs to have access to the US job market. Being a Canadian citizen gives them that via NAFTA (TN1 visa). Hence why many chomp at the bit to get their citizenship while American green card holders can work in the US no problem so it is a non issue to them (unless they want to work in Canada). I know a few people who did the "Canada stepping stone" move. It is fairly common. My wife I sponsored from the US is getting her certification to practice in Ontario in the health profession. In her classes (which is for new PRs who are foreign trained like herself), her classmates are surprised that she came to Canada to practice when the money is so much better in the US. Most everyone in the class have goals of getting Canadian citizenship then looking to work in the US.

 

[SenoritaBella]

The other thing, Canadian PRs still need visas to enter the US(except those who are visa-exempt) while Green card holders can enter Canada freely. Never understood the difference though but oh well. After going through immigration, I would need an incredible offer (e.g. triple my current salary, less taxes, universal healthcard, etc) to consider moving to another country and go through immigration again. Hell naw!