Why is Canada so tough on giving TRV to spouses?

[singleman]

Exactly. Times have changed. IRCC needs to evolve.

Just number of guests and great smiling in events can be easily produced by fakers. And we all know how they get away with it. A young man goes there tells girls parents to spend in all , settles CASH how much, and marriage takes place away from their villages with 350 guests who are hired to eat FREE food and smiling BIG time. They give VISA to such 1st marriage kids. And within months I have seen divorces taking place as per agreements. Now new sponsorship begins even after 5 year's ban they still do it. IRCC gives VISA as this time a KID is born or she is due. They should search for realities NOT how much money, how many guests? Serious faces? or smiling faces? All can be fakers. Time spent in reality with spouse before marriage and after marriage should be seriously considered too.

 

[Phalos]

guys, my best friend wants to apply trv for his wife. if his wife put say $5000 her account but only show 1 month stub, is there still a chance it might fly? ....somebody here said they had $50,000 in bank for trv and it still got denied in 24hrs...so does it REALLY matter in the end ?

 

[armoured]

Funny it’s 2020 and they still treat interracial marriages, age difference as serious flags and delay applications. If the French president was from a visa required country he’d have a hard time getting his spouse to Canada under Family class.

Where did you read that they treat interracial marriages as red flags?

And no, it's very unlikely Macron would have any difficulty under family class. Because he's been married to and living with his wife for 13 years.

 

[singleman]

guys, my best friend wants to apply trv for his wife. if his wife put say $5000 her account but only show 1 month stub, is there still a chance it might fly? ....somebody here said they had $50,000 in bank for trv and it still got denied in 24hrs...so does it REALLY matter in the end ?

It is one of the factors towards assessment ,not the only thing

 

[armoured]

but compared to UK, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc....it might be backward...unfortunately my spouse isn't from any of those countries...sigh...

I don't know the details of each country, but whenever I read such comparisons, it turns out that the comparison doesn't hold water. Every country has its specifics - with advantages and disadvantages (depending also on perspective) and I'm not claiming Canada's system is perfect (the processing time being by far the biggest issue).

Two points, one general and one country-specific:
1) One BIG difference is that under Canada's laws, once the spousal applicant (and usually all dependents) has landed and become a PR - that's it, period, that person is a PR utterly independent of the spouse. As long as the PR-spouse (and children) remain in Canada, all rights as any other PR. Path to citizenship straightforward.

When you're making this comparison, can you say that this is true for each of those other countries?

I don't know in all cases, but for many countries, there is nothing like that, or severe restrictions on ability of e.g. divorced spouse to remain in country and retain the same status. (Yes, there is often a mechanism to get permanent status or citizenship - but longer and more complex)

2) UK: I laughed out loud when reading UK in this list. As a few examples: it is quite difficult for UK citizens not currently residing in-country to bring their spouses. Even once the sponsor is back in UK (as far as I'm aware) the monetary/financial requirements are FAR more demanding than in Canada. (A friend is stuck in this situation - can't leave his wife and children, can't afford to maintain two households, can't look for work in UK while abroad (realistically), even if he were able to swing either of these arrangements, he would still need a year or two of employment while separated to get them into UK. (Oh, and the most absurd bit is that pre-Brexit, if he'd been coming to UK with a different EU passport, he wouldn't have faced these tests).

And anyone who follows UK news and Brexit would be aware that there are currently MANY cases of spouses of UK citizens (with EU passports), there legally for long periods of time, employed, with children, that are being refused any status whatsoever due to the Brexit/EU imbroglio. Obviously the whole story not complete, and comparison difficult as no EU-like arrangements in first place to be unwound - but to depict the UK as some easy country in this regard is a bit rich. (Although I'm sure it has some positives compared to Canada's system, too)

It's easy to throw up these comparisons but when they have a different basis entirely - e.g. the permanence of PR status independent of sponsor - it often turns out that these "such-and-such is better" are really just an exercise in cherry picking. (Truly interested to know, if anyone is aware, about the residency status of spouses in EU/Norway/Sweden, for example)

But Canada's processing times are absurdly long for many cases that should be no-brainers. Even before covid. That I agree with.

 

[armoured]

about the residency status of spouses in EU/Norway/Sweden, for example

For Germany - for example - spouse can get residency through spouse, but it's not permanent until the spouse has resided in Germany for three years.

https://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-residence-permit/german-residence-permit/#:~:text=The residence permit will be,for employment or study purposes.

As some will recall, Canada had a 'conditional' PR program for marriages, but it was cancelled when the concern was raised that it left the PR-spouse at risk for abuse of various kinds as long as status in country was dependent on the sponsor. (You can have your own opinion on both these aspects, but there was a clear policy decision).

And so repeat: it may seem advantageous to some spouses - but my point is you can't just throw out the phrase "Germany is better to spouses." The different legal meaning (rights) under the different programs means that direct comparison is not valid. (Whereas in comparison some European countries are more liberal about granting citizenship to spouses, even if they don't reside in country. That is a significant difference, but one that I don't believe any Canadian government has ever espoused)

 

[Phalos]

I don't know the details of each country, but whenever I read such comparisons, it turns out that the comparison doesn't hold water. Every country has its specifics - with advantages and disadvantages (depending also on perspective) and I'm not claiming Canada's system is perfect (the processing time being by far the biggest issue).

Two points, one general and one country-specific:
1) One BIG difference is that under Canada's laws, once the spousal applicant (and usually all dependents) has landed and become a PR - that's it, period, that person is a PR utterly independent of the spouse. As long as the PR-spouse (and children) remain in Canada, all rights as any other PR. Path to citizenship straightforward.

When you're making this comparison, can you say that this is true for each of those other countries?

I don't know in all cases, but for many countries, there is nothing like that, or severe restrictions on ability of e.g. divorced spouse to remain in country and retain the same status. (Yes, there is often a mechanism to get permanent status or citizenship - but longer and more complex)

2) UK: I laughed out loud when reading UK in this list. As a few examples: it is quite difficult for UK citizens not currently residing in-country to bring their spouses. Even once the sponsor is back in UK (as far as I'm aware) the monetary/financial requirements are FAR more demanding than in Canada. (A friend is stuck in this situation - can't leave his wife and children, can't afford to maintain two households, can't look for work in UK while abroad (realistically), even if he were able to swing either of these arrangements, he would still need a year or two of employment while separated to get them into UK. (Oh, and the most absurd bit is that pre-Brexit, if he'd been coming to UK with a different EU passport, he wouldn't have faced these tests).

And anyone who follows UK news and Brexit would be aware that there are currently MANY cases of spouses of UK citizens (with EU passports), there legally for long periods of time, employed, with children, that are being refused any status whatsoever due to the Brexit/EU imbroglio. Obviously the whole story not complete, and comparison difficult as no EU-like arrangements in first place to be unwound - but to depict the UK as some easy country in this regard is a bit rich. (Although I'm sure it has some positives compared to Canada's system, too)

It's easy to throw up these comparisons but when they have a different basis entirely - e.g. the permanence of PR status independent of sponsor - it often turns out that these "such-and-such is better" are really just an exercise in cherry picking. (Truly interested to know, if anyone is aware, about the residency status of spouses in EU/Norway/Sweden, for example)

But Canada's processing times are absurdly long for many cases that should be no-brainers. Even before covid. That I agree with.

I just quickly read the UK spousal immigration website and everything is quite simple and straightforward there.
You are right in that their system isn't based on immediate PR upon arrival. Theirs is based on QUICKLY getting your spouse into the country but on a Spousal VISA of 2.5 years (extended after for another 2.5) after 3 years you get UK CITIZENSHIP and its over.
I think this is a much better system, than waiting over a year for PR with the chances of being denied over some ircc bad mood or mistake and having to go through 2 years appeal or reapplying from scratch - this is very inefficient system.
Granted perhaps UK has more strict rules for spouses once they arrive in terms of leaving the UK, but at least they are REUNITED quickly! None of this bullshit waiting and waiting and mental anguish and jumping through stages with medicals, endless proofs and so on and so forth - its ARCHAIC!
As for the financial requirements, I dont see it much different than Canada - they have a 18,000 pounds TOTAL income of BOTH spouses and this is once they are already inside UK with a work permit, its not that difficult to earn that much money in UK and if just like in Canada, disability benefits is also OK as proof of self support - basically they just like Canada only care people dont rely on welfare. And it doesnt say anywhere 2 years of financial proof, it says 6 months pay stubs, so I dont know where you get your information from.
The main difference is that all this processing goes on while the foreign spouse is inside the UK and is happily reunited with their UK spouse.
If you are saying many people are getting refused UK Citizenship and its all over the news, I'd like to see a link attesting to this fact, because so far all that you said is contradicting to official UK govt website.

 

[Phalos]

I mean look at all of us here, many checking ECAS on a daily basis, biting our nails off, we need to have self made Googe spreadsheet trackers just so we can get some light on what is going on with our applications. Imagine we didn't organize ourselves and didnt have the tracker or if the Internet would be shut down for some reason - we would all be totally in the TOTAL dark!!! This is why I'm saying our sponsorship system is backwards (and perhaps some other govt systems as well, but this is Visa forum). UK and other 1st world countries have a spousal immigration model of getting the foreign spouse into the country FIRST ASAP, and worrying about the details after, whereas Canada system is to consider ALL foreign marriages as FRAUD, until WE prove them OTHERWISE.
A Canadian immigration officer considers all our applications as FRAUDULENT when they first open them, and it is up to US to convince them that we are legitimate bona fide marriages.
This is an upside down system.

 

[namer15151]

I mean look at all of us here, many checking ECAS on a daily basis, biting our nails off, we need to have self made Googe spreadsheet trackers just so we can get some light on what is going on with our applications. Imagine we didn't organize ourselves and didnt have the tracker or if the Internet would be shut down for some reason - we would all be totally in the TOTAL dark!!! This is why I'm saying our sponsorship system is backwards (and perhaps some other govt systems as well, but this is Visa forum). UK and other 1st world countries have a spousal immigration model of getting the foreign spouse into the country FIRST ASAP, and worrying about the details after, whereas Canada system is to consider ALL foreign marriages as FRAUD, until WE prove them OTHERWISE.
A Canadian immigration officer considers all our applications as FRAUDULENT when they first open them, and it is up to US to convince them that we are legitimate bona fide marriages.
This is an upside down system.

Totally agree with this. We need to show to the visa officer pictures, chats, video, anything to PROVE that the marriage is LEGIT. This isn't the case with study visas, etc... (will they ever know that the student is there to study or work? NO.)

Like come on, even the legit spouse applications are being denied (just like the reasons posted in this topic).

And what's up with these 1 year processing time? Can't they hire more employees? Give jobs to canadians, but no. Its all about cost cutting and giving loads of work to the few.

 

[AutumnSkies]

Happens all the time ??????????
Ok then how about we ban all cars because people die in car accidents all the time ?

I wouldn't exactly call that a fair comparison. I'm just saying it's not unheard of. Many people have unnecessarily complicated their applications or had them refused because they took the risk of breaking the rules.

And what happens when people break the rules? Governments make more rules and tighter restrictions, which then proceeds to make life difficult for everyone. COVID 19 is an absolutely perfect example of that. People once again chose to break the rules, and now the Ontario government is placing more restrictions on the province and limiting the amount of people allowed at private gatherings. And guaranteed more provinces will follow suit.

That's life. There are consequences for breaking the rules, and because people do it, innocent people who were following the rules suffer for it.

 

[canuck78]

I mean look at all of us here, many checking ECAS on a daily basis, biting our nails off, we need to have self made Googe spreadsheet trackers just so we can get some light on what is going on with our applications. Imagine we didn't organize ourselves and didnt have the tracker or if the Internet would be shut down for some reason - we would all be totally in the TOTAL dark!!! This is why I'm saying our sponsorship system is backwards (and perhaps some other govt systems as well, but this is Visa forum). UK and other 1st world countries have a spousal immigration model of getting the foreign spouse into the country FIRST ASAP, and worrying about the details after, whereas Canada system is to consider ALL foreign marriages as FRAUD, until WE prove them OTHERWISE.
A Canadian immigration officer considers all our applications as FRAUDULENT when they first open them, and it is up to US to convince them that we are legitimate bona fide marriages.
This is an upside down system.

Many countries allow countries to deport people easily. Canada doesn’t so they make it harder to get into the country. What is on paper and what happens is not also necessarily the same.

 

[Paul09]

I wouldn't exactly call that a fair comparison. I'm just saying it's not unheard of. Many people have unnecessarily complicated their applications or had them refused because they took the risk of breaking the rules.

And what happens when people break the rules? Governments make more rules and tighter restrictions, which then proceeds to make life difficult for everyone. COVID 19 is an absolutely perfect example of that. People once again chose to break the rules, and now the Ontario government is placing more restrictions on the province and limiting the amount of people allowed at private gatherings. And guaranteed more provinces will follow suit.

That's life. There are consequences for breaking the rules, and because people do it, innocent people who were following the rules suffer for it.

Give this guy/girl a cookie. JK

 

[Paul09]

Many countries allow countries to deport people easily. Canada doesn’t so they make it harder to get into the country. What is on paper and what happens is not also necessarily the same.

Him/Her too.

 

[AutumnSkies]

Him/Her too.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I simply stated when it comes to immigration people break the rules all the time. There is nothing to debate here. That is a fact. End of story.

 

[Paul09]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I simply stated when it comes to immigration people break the rules all the time. There is nothing to debate here. That is a fact. End of story.

Rules are made to break. Nobody is perfect.

Do whatever it takes to achieve your goal. That's what we are trying to do, making a wakeup call to bring changes to this OUTDATED Spousal sponsorship immigration process for outland and abolishing 179b for family members. Changes are hard to accept, but good for growth.

Canada Invested millions to attract international students from all around the world. Koods on that (I was one of the first few, when they started competing with Aus, NZ, and UK for Internaltion Students).