Which NOC code to use(0213 or 2173)

[sashali78]

I think stating NOC any other than the NOC for which you got your LMO/WP will mean that you have been illegally working in Canada, and your work experience cannot be used for CEC experience calculations. You should definitely use the NOC which is in your work permit/LMO and if your letter has any issues with the NOC definitions - ask your employer to change the letter.

 

[reachsky]

My Employment letter has a flavor of both Software Engineer and Project Manager roles and responsibilities with more emphasis towards Software engineer skill sets. But it mentions my designation as "Delivery Project Manager". Do I still need to get a new work letter. Below are the roles and responsibilities mentioned in my work experience letter.

Below are the roles and responsibilities mentioned in the same letter where it's stated that I am designated as "Delivery Project Manager"

 Understand the client requirements and write down the software details
 Study the specifications provided by the clients and seek clarifications for the doubts raised
 Draft a flow chart to plan and organize the methods by which the software would deliver
 Translate the software requirements into software functions by coding the program using Object oriented Programming language (Java).
 Develop the process orchestration using Business process Execution language using Oracle SOA Suite version 11g.
 Design using UML and develop the software based on the designs approved by the review committee
 Install the software in the system(Windows 2007, Linux) using Intel processor and test for efficiency and productivity
 Ensure the system responds with an error message if a wrong command is typed in
 Debug the system to remove the anomalies and inconsistencies
 Upgrade the software and modify its features to meet the changing client demands
 Troubleshoot the system in times of system failure or breakdown
 Coordinate with engineers from other disciplines to develop the end product of the requisite standards
 Conduct meetings with the clients on monthly basis to discuss project progress
 Provide satisfactory answers to the client queries, suggestions and complaints
 Customize the software to suit the product nature, size and expected functioning

 

[Candy11]

Yes, Remove "Delivery"

Also include Creation of software design document and getting approval from client... on the similar liness


Just a quick question Are you hiring an Attorney ?

 

[sashali78]

My Employment letter has a flavor of both Software Engineer and Project Manager roles and responsibilities with more emphasis towards Software engineer skill sets. But it mentions my designation as "Delivery Project Manager". Do I still need to get a new work letter. Below are the roles and responsibilities mentioned in my work experience letter.

Below are the roles and responsibilities mentioned in the same letter where it's stated that I am designated as "Delivery Project Manager"

 Understand the client requirements and write down the software details
 Study the specifications provided by the clients and seek clarifications for the doubts raised
 Draft a flow chart to plan and organize the methods by which the software would deliver
 Translate the software requirements into software functions by coding the program using Object oriented Programming language (Java).
 Develop the process orchestration using Business process Execution language using Oracle SOA Suite version 11g.
 Design using UML and develop the software based on the designs approved by the review committee
 Install the software in the system(Windows 2007, Linux) using Intel processor and test for efficiency and productivity
 Ensure the system responds with an error message if a wrong command is typed in
 Debug the system to remove the anomalies and inconsistencies
 Upgrade the software and modify its features to meet the changing client demands
 Troubleshoot the system in times of system failure or breakdown
 Coordinate with engineers from other disciplines to develop the end product of the requisite standards
 Conduct meetings with the clients on monthly basis to discuss project progress
 Provide satisfactory answers to the client queries, suggestions and complaints
 Customize the software to suit the product nature, size and expected functioning

I don't see any duty which designated you as a manager, i.e. somebody who manages/directs other individuals... The only mentioning is "coordination and meetings conduct" which is part of any job in skilled level. So, i don't think you have amy problem with the current letter. Use your NOC and you should be fine.

 

[reachsky]

Hi Candy11,

I put together all documents and got it reviewed from an immigration lawyer. He gave few suggestion which are quite the opposite of what people are advising me here

1. Lawyer: He asked me to use NOC: 0213 instead of NOC: 2173 which I had entered prior to review. His rational was that since my designation in work experience letter and pay stubs mention as Project Manager I better mention NOC: 0213 which is computer and information systems manager.

Forum: Everyone suggested me to use NOC relevant with Work permit which would be 2173.

2. Lawyer: Asked me to enter one of my name as last name since i don't have any family name in passport and attach a letter stating the reason.

Forum: Everyone suggested to either leave the family name as blank or LNU(last name unknown).

 

[reachsky]

Hi sashali78,

I will go ahead and use NOC: 2173 which matches the Occupation mentioned in Work Permit i.e Software Engineers.

Do I need to add a covering letter explaining the discrepancies between work permit occupation and my designation.

 

[reachsky]

Hi Candy11,

How does the document "Creation of software design document and getting approval from client" help in my case.

 

[sashali78]

Hi sashali78,

I will go ahead and use NOC: 2173 which matches the Occupation mentioned in Work Permit i.e Software Engineers.

Do I need to add a covering letter explaining the discrepancies between work permit occupation and my designation.

I think it can be beneficial to include explanation that although your profession is Software Engineer, your actual role in that field is project delivery manager. Your lawyer advises looks odd - however, due to the conflicts in advices you get i would consult with another lawyer/consultant.
Few people on this forum got rejects due to wrong NOC code (including those not matching with work permits), you better get all advices you can before making the decision.

 

[reachsky]

Yes you are correct sashali78. I better get advice from another lawyer and see what has to offer.

 

[reachsky]

I spoke to a lawyer and CIC agent, they suggested to mention NOC related to work permit occupation.

 

[jes_ON]

I am designated as "Project Manager" in my organization. In Payslip occupation is "Project Manager". But in my work permit my occupation is "Software Engineers".

When I apply under CEC which NOC category I need to enter, is it 0123(Computer and information Systems Manager) or 2173(Software Engineers and Designers).

2173 is the correct NOC, your designation/job title does not have to match. Your letter can say,

"Mr. Reachsky works as Project Manager in software engineering (NOC 2173) ..."

To be NOC 0123 (MANAGER) you'd have to be talking about supervising staff, hiring and training staff, other department managerial functions (budgets, reporting)... I didn't see any of that in your job description.

 

[kpadmaraman]

Most important is to make sure that your employment letter which has "Designation", "Duties Performed" matches with the NOC code.

I want to give a hypothetic situation:
Your employer brought you to canada on a work permit valid for 2 years. And your designation was a software engineer with NOC code 2173. In 2 months you get a promotion and become project manager with NOC code: 0213". But you will only be having old work permit which states that your NOC code is: 2173.
So my assumption is, you can be a manager with NOC code 0213 and declare it in the forms for PR and still have Noc Code: 2173 in work permit.

This is just my assumption. I can be wrong. Please ask CIC officials. Customer Service ppl. will not be able to help you. Ask the nearby CIC office.

Or as the other person mentioned, you can get the employment letter with duties of NOC Code 2173, if you can do it. In that case, the letter should mention that your designation is, "Software Engineer".

 

[kpadmaraman]

Hi reachsky, I would completely agree with the lawyer wrt NOC codes. That is what i will do.
You need to write down the correct designation and duties from what your employer gives.

My situation:
i was a S/w engineer (NOC code 2173) from Oct 2009 to April 2011. From May 2011 till date, i am a delivery project manager (NOC code 0213)
I wrote this very clearly in my letter and also my employment letter and duties matches.
But according to my WP: its 9999 from October 2009 to Feb 2012 and designation as "embedded systems software engineer". I had nothing to do with embedded systems.

Only from March 2012(when i renewed my WP), its mentioned as NOC code: 0213.
I sent these to CIC. They did not raise any query so far.

Request you to explain this situation to nearby CIC office. They will guide you what to do. You can explain in your letter that you also consulted CIC official.

 

[reachsky]

Hi kpadmaraman,

Thanks for your detailed explanation. In my case I was a "Delivery Project Manager" even before I came to Canada for the first time, infact I am designated as a Delivery Project manager for 6 years though I have been performing technical roles and responsibilities.

 

[reachsky]

So which code to enter