What to do when employer refuses to provide letter of employment.

[OhCanadiana]

*confused* Now I have 2 letters ......

Read through your draft and your manager friend's suggestion.

I agree with your friend that shorter is better.

However, I also agree with you that polite is important and concur with your concerns with your friend's draft. There is a risk that if you annoy the manager she could takes a long time to respond or simply ignores your e-mail.

You need to decide how strong you want to come across based on your personal preference/personality and the approach you think would work with the manager. That being said, it's not an either/or decision between the two drafts you have. There's a gray area. For example, you could do this in two steps: first focus on getting her to understand the situation and review the Agency's letter. After that (and once you have her agreement or understand her concerns), you can discuss exactly what she'll provide you with. The first step would look something like:

Dear <<Manager>>,

I hope you are doing well.

As you know from our conversations early last year, I am applying for Permanent Residency in Canada. I really appreciate your time last year investigating BMO's policies and understood when you advised me you were unable to help me with the letter confirming my work experience at BMO given bank policy. As a result, I instead submitted a letter provided by <Agency> hoping that it would meet CIC's requirements since I was at BMO under their contract.

Unfortunately, yesterday, CIC advised me that:

"You submitted a confirmation of employment issued by xyz employment agency describing your duties and conditions of employment with the bank as an Accounting Technician. I have concerns regarding your duties and responsibilities as an Accounting Technician because this information is not supported by evidence from the Bank of Montreal, for which you performed these duties. Therefore I am asking you to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concern(s)."

I am writing to ask for your help in your capacity as <xxx Manager> since you have first-hand experience of my role and could provide the confirmation CIC is seeking of the duties I performed while I worked at your branch at BMO, under contract from <Agency>. Would it be possible for you to review the letter provided by <Agency> (copy attached), and confirm whether it accurately reflects my time at BMO while under assignment from <Agency>?

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kind regards,
ssparkles

~~~~~

Once she replies to this e-mail (1) you'll have an e-mail you can forward to CIC with her reply based on info CIC already has and (2) can ask for more formal confirmation (e.g., a letter).

 

[OhCanadiana]

I do agree with jes_ON's advice about removing the word "employment" and point #2 from CEC2013. My only word of caution is don't say that CIC provided with you with only one week. I don't think lying will win you any favours.

Agree!

 

[ssparkles]

However, I also agree with you that polite is important and concur with your concerns with your friend's draft. There is a risk that if you annoy the manager she could takes a long time to respond or simply ignores your e-mail.

I had my own concerns about the tone of the 2nd email but after further discussion with the manger/frnd and 2 other senior employees I think I will go with it. According to them there is a tone to be set in the first email that needs to get their attention. If it doesn't sound strong enough it has the possibility to be overseen or just not replied to.

You need to decide how strong you want to come across based on your personal preference/personality and the approach you think would work with the manager.

My manager is the types to not reply (to avoid written proof)/Likely to delay by either calling on the phone or asking/saying something very neutral if by email. I think this strong tone will work with her, I am nervous but I think something nicer won't work with her. It hasn't in the past when I asked her for the same thing over 2 months. I have prepared counter responses to situations in my head.

OhCanadiana thanks for going over this. It made me further discuss the strong tone of the email.

 

[ssparkles]

This is the final version I've come up with. Not sending it until tomorrow morning, if anyone happens to see this tonight please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Manager,

As discussed early last year, I am in the process of applying for permanent residency in Canada. As part of my application category I am required to provide a letter confirming the duration, roles, and responsibilities of my job at BMO. Unfortunately despite your best efforts, you told me you were unable to assist me and I was left to provide this from <the Agency>.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada contacted me to advise that they require evidence from BMO as that was where I performed my stated duties and the letter I submitted from <the Agency> is not satisfactory as I did not physically work there.

I hereby request and give you permission to confirm the following information in regards to my work history with BMO:

Contract Assignment dates: June 2010 – May 2012
Regular hours: 37.5 / week
Position: XXX
Primary Responsibilities:
• X
• X
• X
• X
• X
• X
This information must be written on a letter that is:
• Written on company letterhead
• Signed by my manager
• Have my manager’s printed name and title
• Company address, e-mail, website, telephone and fax number

Please feel free to add the remark, "Without prejudice" or BMO's recommended verbiage, "We will provide a reference, but we will not be held legally accountable for this reference."

Please see BMO's page: __________________________________________________ which outlines what you are able to provide.

Not providing this letter in the first place has resulted in a significant delay in my application which has personal and financial implications for myself.

Your prompt response is appreciated as I am required to respond to Citizenship and Immigration Canada ASAP.

Thank you

Ssparkles

P.S. Please see the attached pdf provided by <the Agency> as an example.

 

[forum_user]

Hi
I have the same concern - my employer also refuses to provide employment letter. But my employer has provided a employment letter for the purpose of applying visitor visa for my parents. The letter contains my roles & responsibilities (not very detailed though), work hours per week, salary & my start date of work in canada. I am also planning to attach my paystubs, T4, notice of assessment & bank letter. Please let me know if this is fine....

 

[CEC2013]

I get where you are coming from. Having just read the final version...the tone of the message seems, at least to me, a bit too aggressive/blunt. But I do hope it works, since you've already tried nice with her.

Have you tried contacting HR reps about this? Had my direct supervisor refused, I would have gone directly to HR, since they are the ones who keep personnel records. Perhaps, if they provide you with a negative response, you can also attach that as proof and show that you really tried. Just a thought!

 

[ssparkles]

Hi
I have the same concern - my employer also refuses to provide employment letter. But my employer has provided a employment letter for the purpose of applying visitor visa for my parents. The letter contains my roles & responsibilities (not very detailed though), work hours per week, salary & my start date of work in canada. I am also planning to attach my paystubs, T4, notice of assessment & bank letter. Please let me know if this is fine....

Hey there,

I attached all those things (paystubs, T4, notice of assessment) and it still wasn't enough. You have to make sure that your duties and responsibilities are listed in detail (they must also be an 80% match to your stated noc code descriptio). Signed by the employer with the letterhead. See the details on point 10 of the document checklist from the link below. Try to cover all the points or you are likely to get very hassled and even refused later on. I would suggest you get a strong letter before you apply.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5610E.pdf

The letter you received may work for a visit visa and 'might' even work for immigration if it covers all the points listed in point 10 of the document checklist. All the best!

 

[CEC2013]

In addition to my previous comments, this just popped into my head. Could the temp agency maybe request the confirmation in your name? Perhaps BMO would be more likely to give them an answer, thus providing you with a paper trail. Not sure about your relationship with the temp agency, but if possible, could be worth a shot.

 

[ssparkles]

CEC2013 I hope it works. As for HR I am trying to find the person in HR responsible for the bmo i worked in, its being difficult. Emailing HR in general is unlikely to help or get anyone's attention. As a last resort I might have to mail some well known HR person instead of HR in general.

However the plan is to email HR when I take it to the next level. The plan is:

Friday - Email manager early morning and wait until 4:00 pm. If no response email her boss and wait the weekend out.
Monday - wait until 4:00 pm to hear from boss, if no reply email his manager + HR
Tuesday - Wait for her response, if no reply email her manager ..... (6 stage hierarchy, you get the picture)

I think it'll be resolved in stage 2 and won't go any further up (I hope). If I do end up going higher and higher with this email I should consider using the words 'diversity/discrimination' or something along those lines.

Wonder how things are going to turn out in the next few days.

 

[ssparkles]

In addition to my previous comments, this just popped into my head. Could the temp agency maybe request the confirmation in your name? Perhaps BMO would be more likely to give them an answer, thus providing you with a paper trail. Not sure about your relationship with the temp agency, but if possible, could be worth a shot.

Well the agency already gave me a letter of employment last year stating i worked at bmo with the date, duties, time, pay and everything. But immigration wasn't satisfied with that even though it said i worked at bmo. So I think there is no point in contacting the agency coz they've already given me the whole employment letter with all the details.

I'm going to attach that with the email to the manager so she knows that I already have that and it hasn't worked.

 

[CEC2013]

I get that - I know they provided you with the letter. I meant more as in asking for help...them requesting this letter on your behalf from BMO. So, they ask for a confirmation from BMO directly, not the temp agency letter, which you will attach. Just a thought!

Oh wow. The plan seems pretty sound...but I have to say, be careful about how you use those words: "diversity/discrimination"!! The employer is not required by law to provide you with this letter and you dont want legal implications to arise. I think I wrote a post a while back about the Employment Standards Act and the employers obligations...when I'm a little less tired, I'll look it up and repost.

And while I'm with you on this...putting on my gov hat (work for a gov agency), I was told specifically that employers are not obligated to provide you with this. This was explained to me in detail, so that I understand, should something like what you were just suggesting cross my mind. Again, I'm right there with you and completely understand. But, just make sure you are careful about verbiage.

 

[ssparkles]

Oh I see what you mean. Yea that is something I could ask them. Maybe ask the agency for some confirmation from bmo about the duties. I'll get that together over the weekend should I need to use it.

Yea I should really avoid using terminology that has the possibility to backfire. Its just a thought that's been at the back of my mind and I would definitely have to assess everything before using it. I'm just trying to think this through till the end should I have to go a long way.

What you said in the end is concerning to me. Last year she told me she could not give this to me due to bank policy. Today that other manager gave me a link that directly states that they have to provide a reference and how to do it whether its full time, contract or rehires. I'll copy paste it to your inbox if you don't mind looking at it. That is why he thought my first email was not the right way to go for something that they have to provide.

Now the reason I've been confident about this email is because its written that they have to provide a reference but you are saying you were told specifically that employers are not obligated to provide this. Could this be case specific to the company?

I have to be careful about verbiage. I agree. Very Careful.

 

[CEC2013]

This is an internal policy. My employer will only provide the following information: position/title and dates. Sometimes, they are even reluctant to provide info despite direct authorization. **Refer to the lawsuit section of the internal policy. This safeguard the employer from potential legal matters that could arise. For example...they disclose negative information about me, I dont get hired, I sue them for a whole bunch of things. Of course, this would all be circumstantial, but the slander and dragging through the mud, if you will, would be damaging enough. So, they try to cover their behinds.

My interpretation of this policy, though, is that CIC would need to formally request a reference themselves, instead of you. Not sure how this plays out when you request it as part of the application process, since its usually the hiring organization that inquiries directly with the former employer.

Here is the post I made a while back...

Brandy,

Unfortunately, based on a quick search, this is what I came across on a provincial government website.

"The Employment Standards Act does not require you to provide a job description" (let alone a letter of reference containing the description). "It is a good idea to give any new employee information about their job and what duties they are expected to perform. This way, if any dispute arises about performance of duties you will have proof that the employee knows what their duties were."

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/employers/faq.htm

This is what I found published by one labor law firm:

"Though the law does not require an employer to use or have a job description, employers should consider drafting one as job descriptions do serve as useful tools in the recruitment process. The job description should be sufficiently broad to give an employer the ability to make changes to job duties and tasks as needed in the future without fear of a constructive dismissal claim."

http://www.abrahamlaw.ca/freelegalinformation/employmentlaw/recruitment/fillingaposition

Based on all I have read and all the discussions on this forum, the employer is not obligated to provide you with a reference that includes a job description. My personal experience was that I almost had to beg for it. And it took over a month to even agree on the format. I would say its up to the employer whether they want to play ball. From feedback I was given by my employer - they were concerned with multiple variables: affect on non-binding job description I was given, ensuring that this is not a support letter, standard of organization, included content (which had to be screened by numerous departments), purpose, certification, approval...etc.

The link to the conversation: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/employer-not-wanting-to-provide-proof-of-work-t131251.0.html;msg2003221#msg2003221

 

[CEC2013]

But just because its not required by law doesn't mean you should lose hope. Just make sure your message does not implicate any legal requirements, but rather making it about the request itself, which is a part of the process. And, the fact is, you need to do this whether or not they decide to provide you with a letter. You will need proof for CIC, even if they say no. Just make sure you come up with a backup plan if they dont respond.

 

[forum_user]

Hey there,

I attached all those things (paystubs, T4, notice of assessment) and it still wasn't enough. You have to make sure that your duties and responsibilities are listed in detail (they must also be an 80% match to your stated noc code descriptio). Signed by the employer with the letterhead. See the details on point 10 of the document checklist from the link below. Try to cover all the points or you are likely to get very hassled and even refused later on. I would suggest you get a strong letter before you apply.



The letter you received may work for a visit visa and 'might' even work for immigration if it covers all the points listed in point 10 of the document checklist. All the best!

Hi,
I'm planning to apply under NOC 2174.
These are the contents of the employment letter:

Employer Letter head
Date
Reference no-XXXXX

To Whomsoever It May Concern,

This is to certify that <Employee Name> is employed with XYZ company on a full time basis since <date of joining>
He is deputed to Canada effective <Date of joining company in Canada>, designated as <Designation> in <location>. His approximate gross salary is CAD XYZ per year.His regular work hours are 40 hours per week.

<Employee Name> has been working for our client, <client name> in <client location>
since <client joining date> as an Interact Media Programmer/Developer and is responsible for writing, modifying,
integrating & testing software code for e-commerce applications. He is also responsible for
documenting user requirements as well as leading & co-ordinating a team of developers.

<Name> is currently residing in the following address, as per our records: <Address>

This authorized certificate is being issued to <Name> for the purpose of applying Visitor
Visa for his/her parents <name of parents> All expenses related to this travel will be borne by the
employee.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if any further information is required.
For <company>

Sincerely,
<HR Manager>
Address
Ph.no
E-mail
Fax


I am also planning to attach a covering letter explaining that my company does not provide employment letters for immigration purposes and hence I'm attaching this employment letter that was provided to me for assisting my parents to get visitor visa.
Please let me know if the contents of the employment letter are good enough since I'm planning to send the application very soon.