What is the best way to prove physical presence in Canada when unemployed?

[steaky]

In my opinion:
- Utility/phone bills and rent receipts are NOT good enough because they can be paid by others. Same logic applies to credit card / debit card transaction history.
- CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) record is NOT good enough either because they do not record the exit dates.

So I am curious to know what you guys can think of that may be used to efficiently prove an unemployed person's physical presence (assume he/she doesn't attend school either).

Thanks

But in the recent post below, that poster suggested that CBSA does record the exit dates. So better to order those records.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/how-do-cbsa-verify-ro-at-poes-while-entering-by-private-car-from-usa-t193834.0.html;msg3019178;boardseen#new

 

[swindsor2010]

But in the recent post below, that poster suggested that CBSA does record the exit dates. So better to order those records.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/how-do-cbsa-verify-ro-at-poes-while-entering-by-private-car-from-usa-t193834.0.html;msg3019178;boardseen#new

I recently ordered and received my CBSA record. In the cover letter they explained that the CBSA began recording EXIT at land borders since July 2013.

 

[SenoritaBella]

I don't think keesio was saying he should not see the doctor IF he is sick. Rather, seeing the doctor frequently(weekly visits) just so he could get a record of visits when he is not sick will overburden the healthcare system. Also, be aware that if you visit the doctor frequently, the provincial insurance office can audit your physician and this involves also sending you a record of all your visits asking you to confirm each visit/reason for visit. This happened to a former roommate who used to see the doctor for every ailment.

 

[keesio]

I don't think keesio was saying he should not see the doctor IF he is sick. Rather, seeing the doctor frequently(weekly visits) just so he could get a record of visits when he is not sick will overburden the healthcare system. Also, be aware that if you visit the doctor frequently, the provincial insurance office can audit your physician and this involves also sending you a record of all your visits asking you to confirm each visit/reason for visit. This happened to a former roommate who used to see the doctor for every ailment.

Thank you SenoritaBella for clarifying my statement. If you are sick, by all means please get medical treatment.

But to request weekly medical checkups, when you don't need them, simply for the sake of getting a record of visits to use for the purpose of proof of residency is not right. That is what I meant.

 

[meyakanor]

I was wondering about this, if you swipe your health card (assuming your health card has your picture like OHIP does), wouldn't it mean that you have proven your physical presence in Canada from the last time you entered Canada up to the point you used your health card? So you wouldn't really have to visit a doctor weekly or something, just that if you use it once, it should prove your physical presence from your last entry to Canada to the date you visit the doctor.

Let's say, you LAST entered Canada on January 1 2014, and CBSA would have this entry, and you swiped your (photo) health card on September 30 2014, wouldn't it have to mean you must have been in Canada from January 1 2014 until at least September 30 2014, thus proving 9 months of physical presence in the country? I mean, if the last time you entered Canada was on January 1, and you were still present in Canada on September 30 to use your (photo) health card, wouldn't this have to mean you have been present each day from January 1 to September 30? If you had left in between, then you must have come back at some point before September 30, and this would have been recorded by CBSA.

 

[keesio]

I was wondering about this, if you swipe your health card (assuming your health card has your picture like OHIP does), wouldn't it mean that you have proven your physical presence in Canada from the last time you entered Canada up to the point you used your health card? So you wouldn't really have to visit a doctor weekly or something, just that if you use it once, it should prove your physical presence from your last entry to Canada to the date you visit the doctor.

Let's say, you LAST entered Canada on January 1 2014, and CBSA would have this entry, and you swiped your (photo) health card on September 30 2014, wouldn't it have to mean you must have been in Canada from January 1 2014 until at least September 30 2014, thus proving 9 months of physical presence in the country? I mean, if the last time you entered Canada was on January 1, and you were still present in Canada on September 30 to use your (photo) health card, wouldn't this have to mean you have been present each day from January 1 to September 30? If you had left in between, then you must have come back at some point before September 30, and this would have been recorded by CBSA.

No, not really. Just because you can use OHIP, it doesn't mean you were definitely here. People have illegally used OHIP (not fulfilling their residency obligation for OHIP) and simply haven't been caught.

 

[Goldline]

The best way to prove physical presence in Canada is to take a picture with date, in front of a famous building like city Hall every day since landing. this way you have evidence for 365 day/year

 

[SenoritaBella]

Photos can be photoshopped and the date on the camera can be manipulated too. There is a case I read on either CanLII or Federal Court website - a sponsorship application where the couple submitted photos which the officer believed to be fake/photoshopped. There was mention of the head and neck of the couple being in different a direction/angle than the rest of the body and that their heads looked the same. lol Part of the background checks include document verification - they look for signs of temparing, whether any security features that should be on that document(originals) are there, etc.

It's hard to say exactly what the "best prove is" but if I had to choose one, it would be employment. An officer looks at the totality of the evidence submitted and makes a determination on the balance of probabilities. Example:

1. A doctor visit on Monday + bank statement next Tuesday showing purchase of food at the cafeteria where you work + minimal travel + employment(T4s), etc - on the balance of probabilities, it does show you were in Canada during that period.

2. A doctor visit Monday + no employment/self-employment + visa exempt status or frequent travel + long stays overseas + another doctor visit in 6 months + bank statements - does not show on the the balance of probabilities that you were in fact in Canada during that period(even if you were). An officer would need more information (i.e.Residency Questionnaire) to make that determination.

These are just general examples.

The best way to prove physical presence in Canada is to take a picture with date, in front of a famous building like city Hall every day since landing. this way you have evidence for 365 day/year

 

[keesio]

It's hard to say exactly what the "best prove is" but if I had to choose one, it would be employment.

No question about it. Full-time employment for a (large) Canadian employer is the best proof in CIC's eyes. Especially if the job absolutely requires physical presence at the location where remote working is not an option (like working as a nurse in a hospital).

 

[meyakanor]

No, not really. Just because you can use OHIP, it doesn't mean you were definitely here. People have illegally used OHIP (not fulfilling their residency obligation for OHIP) and simply haven't been caught.

Using OHIP (or any health card) illegally (by not having stayed in Ontario for 183 days within the last 12 months for example) is one thing, but it's got your photo on it, and if you use it (whether or not you are eligible to use it), it proves that you are physically present in Canada at that particular day.

Again, let's say you used your OHIP on September 30 2014, and the last time you entered Canada was on January 1 2014. Can you come up with a scenario where you were not present at any days in Canada between January 1 - September 30? Again, the last time CBSA recorded your entry was January 1 2014. If you had not been physically present in between, then you would have to have made an entry sometimes in between as well (unless you can somehow teleport or smuggle yourself into Canada, undetected by the border).

 

[rayman_m]

The math is like this: Let's say you collected last CBSA dated 1st Jan, 2014 and next CBSA you will collect on 30th Sept, 2014. If there is no entry recorded between the two report then it proofs you are inside Canada as of 30th Sept. report whether you went to doctor or not..

 

[chelavnzuo]

I think here is a good summary of the discussion:

Before June 30th 2013 – The best proof of physical presence is the combination of 1) all passport stamps + 2) official translation on all passport stamps + 3) CBSA record.

After June 30th 2013 – The best proof of physical presence is simply the CBSA record because CBSA began to keep track of both exit and entry records on that day.

Work/education history, bills, health care record are used as supporting documents to demonstrate strong ties to Canada.

 

[meyakanor]

The math is like this: Let's say you collected last CBSA dated 1st Jan, 2014 and next CBSA you will collect on 30th Sept, 2014. If there is no entry recorded between the two report then it proofs you are inside Canada as of 30th Sept. report whether you went to doctor or not..

The thing is, you can still ask for CBSA report from outside Canada (by simply providing a Canadian address), but visiting a doctor would require a physical presence in the country (unless you fake it, which would be hard to do if your health card has your picture). So if the LAST recorded entry was January 1 2014, and you visited a doctor on September 30 2014 (recorded by OHIP or what have you), then it has to mean a continuous physical presence from January 1 2014 to September 30 2014, even if you don't have any other proof in between. If you left, say in Feb or June, to be able to visit a doctor on September 30, you would need to have made an entry in between.

Before June 30th 2013 – The best proof of physical presence is the combination of 1) all passport stamps + 2) official translation on all passport stamps + 3) CBSA record.

After June 30th 2013 – The best proof of physical presence is simply the CBSA record because CBSA began to keep track of both exit and entry records on that day.

CBSA has only been recording exits through land borders as part of Phase II of the exit/entry initiative. And they still don't track exits of US citizens, so if you are US citizen, your land exits won't show up on the CBSA record. Some people claim they had air exits recorded as well, but there is no guarantee yet since they are only planning to do it by June this year.

 

[chelavnzuo]

CBSA has only been recording exits through land borders as part of Phase II of the exit/entry initiative. And they still don't track exits of US citizens, so if you are US citizen, your land exits won't show up on the CBSA record. Some people claim they had air exits recorded as well, but there is no guarantee yet since they are only planning to do it by June this year.

Then we should use the combination of translated passport stamps and CBSA record all the way.
It’s just that the passport stamps in some countries can’t be translated because the only word on the stamp is the airport name, for example Vietnam’s stamp - if there’s a leftward arrow on it means entry, no arrow means exit.

 

[rayman_m]

By air travel CBSA record has only entry date and you have to proof exit date (arrival stamp in passport to the destination). So, CBSA report+Passport is the only genuine proof can satisfy CIC instantly. Otherwise CIC can dig into other secondary proofs..