What is second class citizen

[neutral]

I think the most problematic point of the new bill is that the minister can revoke citizenship and you can not appeal in the court! Even a terrorist has a right to appeal. This is a dangerous tool in the hands of CIC and they can accuse anyone they want while he or she has no chance to defend.

You're mixing the penal process and the administrative one.

During the penal process, the (now convicted terrorist) had all the appeals he wanted and he lost, that's why he's a sentenced terrorist.

Now, the Minister using an administrative step would say: " Ok, so this Canadian guy is a criminal according to our tribunals of justice and he has a second citizenship, let's revoke his Canadian citizesnhip and kick him out of the country".

The CIC doesn't accuse ANYONE, it will just follows the sentences determined by judges.

 

[ZingyDNA]

Now, the Minister using an administrative step would say: " Ok, so this Canadian guy is a criminal according to our tribunals of justice and he has a second citizenship, let's revoke his Canadian citizesnhip and kick him out of the country".

The CIC doesn't accuse ANYONE, it will just follows the sentences determined by judges.

That's incorrect, actually. CIC takes the biggest step, which is taking away one's citizenship. Without C-24 it's not legal for CIC (or judges, or anyone for that matter) to do so. Some people are simply opposed to the mere possibility of revoking citizenship, as it could be beginning of the government having too much power.

I may not agree with them but I can see where they are coming from. If a Canadian ever becomes a terrorist, send the special forces to kill him, but at least make him die a Canadian

If you make it possible to revoke his Canadian citizenship, what's to stop the government from making up other reasons to revoke your citizenship?

 

[polara69]

If you make it possible to revoke his Canadian citizenship, what's to stop the government from making up other reasons to revoke your citizenship?

Maybe in a Banana Republic or some other dodgy country. But this is still Canada, a democracy. I am not worried one bit!

 

[MUFC]

Maybe in a Banana Republic or some other dodgy country. But this is still Canada, a democracy. I am not worried one bit!

I told you that this fake paranoia from the people will continue for a very long time.

 

[CanadianCountry]

People keep saying Canada is a democracy so im not worried. There will be a due process to everything.

US is a democracy. But laws like such has already turned into a police state.

I told you that this fake paranoia from the people will continue for a very long time.

 

[MUFC]

People keep saying Canada is a democracy so im not worried. There will be a due process to everything.

US is a democracy. But laws like such has already turned into a police state.

Here I agree with you. In US I've also experienced how this stuff works against the innocent people in the everyday living situations.

 

[MUFC]

People keep saying Canada is a democracy so im not worried. There will be a due process to everything.

US is a democracy. But laws like such has already turned into a police state.

US has very similar attitude toward the intend to reside as of when a person is still with a PR status there.
I have been questioned few times when I was absent from US as a PR for around 4 months. The border guys have asked me why I was absent for so long. Am I going to continue residing in US or some questions from that type.

This intend have been in place in US for a long time. But that doesn't matter because for the people who have never been there living for a long time US will continue to be just a unrealistic democratic and fair country.

 

[ZingyDNA]

US has very similar attitude toward the intend to reside as of when a person is still with a PR status there.
I have been questioned few times when I was absent from US as a PR for around 4 months. The border guys have asked me why I was absent for so long. Am I going to continue residing in US or some questions from that type.

If you are only a PR of the US but not a citizen, of course they are gonna question your intend to reside when you are absent for so long. 4 months absence is long for green card maintenance... You wouldn't have been questioned if you were a US citizen.

 

[MUFC]

If you are only a PR of the US but not a citizen, of course they are gonna question your intend to reside when you are absent for so long. 4 months absence is long for green card maintenance... You wouldn't have been questioned if you were a US citizen.

US has another stupidity specially made for US citizens is that you will be taxed over your international income if you live outside of US.
That was one of the main reasons why I voluntarily renounced my US citizenship.
At least Canada doesn't follow them on that.

And don't worry once you are Canadian nobody will question you when you come back here.

 

[keesio]

US has another stupidity specially made for US citizens is that you will be taxed over your international income if you live outside of US.
That was one of the main reasons why I voluntarily renounced my US citizenship.
At least Canada doesn't follow them on that.

And don't worry once you are Canadian nobody will question you when you come back here.

Not exactly. the requirement is that have to file taxes. And you may pay taxes if your income exceeds a certain amount AND you don't have enough tax credits (i.e. you didn't pay enough taxes in the country you reside in to offset the taxes you'd pay to the US). Basically if you live in a country that has a tax treaty with the US and has a higher tax rate than the US (like Canada or most of Europe), then you seldom pay anything if you do your taxes right.

However I 100% agree that it is a major pain in the butt to comply with all the tax filing responsibilities. I hate it and the US really needs to amend its laws on this. It's why I support US tea party candidates (Rand Paul specifically has called it an unwarranted burden on citizens abroad).

Also note that other countries have looked at the US tactic of taxation for citizens abroad as a way to increase revenue. The current government in France has looked into introducing it. There is also support among some NDP members on this as a way to show they are serious about nailing citizens who move abroad to avoid paying taxes on offshore assets (and to show how the Conservatives are soft on this)

 

[screech339]

Not exactly. the requirement is that have to file taxes. And you may pay taxes if your income exceeds a certain amount AND you don't have enough tax credits (i.e. you didn't pay enough taxes in the country you reside in to offset the taxes you'd pay to the US). Basically if you live in a country that has a tax treaty with the US and has a higher tax rate than the US (like Canada or most of Europe), then you seldom pay anything if you do your taxes right.

However I 100% agree that it is a major pain in the butt to comply with all the tax filing responsibilities. I hate it and the US really needs to amend its laws on this. It's why I support US tea party candidates (Rand Paul specifically has called it an unwarranted burden on citizens abroad).

Also note that other countries have looked at the US tactic of taxation for citizens abroad as a way to increase revenue. The current government in France has looked into introducing it. There is also support among some NDP members on this as a way to show they are serious about nailing citizens who move abroad to avoid paying taxes on offshore assets (and to show how the Conservatives are soft on this)

The biggest gripe a lot of Canadians have is that our health care system is funded by taxpayers living here. Once Canadians leave Canada, they no longer have to support Canada tax system that pays for health care. So the longer the Canadian stays outside Canada, the more "free" health care is for them when they come back to Canada.

So if NDP wants to implement a worldwide tax system like the US, then the issue of Canadians being Canadian of convenience becomes moot when it comes to accessing free health care.

But it is "surprising" that ever since Obamacare came along, more and more Americans are renouncing citizenship. After the Obamacare law, Obama strictly enforces the FATCA and forces other nations to follow through. When Obama noticed the "unusual" rates of renunciation, they implemented measures that made it almost impossible to renounce citizenship. Obama wants more of your money to pay for his project.

If NDP does implement worldwide income taxes based on citizenship, Canadian citizenship wouldn't be so attractive anymore.

 

[neutral]

Some people are simply opposed to the mere possibility of revoking citizenship

People can be opposed to what they want, it doesn't change nothing.

I may not agree with them but I can see where they are coming from. If a Canadian ever becomes a terrorist, send the special forces to kill him, but at least make him die a Canadian

If he's a terrorist in action is one thing but if he's captured he won't be killed (because this is Canada, not North Korea or Syria) so why we should pay for him until he dies maybe at 90 years old, paying for his food, clothes, medicines, etc when he has ANOTHER citizenship.

If you make it possible to revoke his Canadian citizenship, what's to stop the government from making up other reasons to revoke your citizenship?

You need another law to use other reasons. The reasons nowadays are very clear in this new law.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Let the stupidity rule through this Tory govt.

People can be opposed to what they want, it doesn't change nothing.

If he's a terrorist in action is one thing but if he's captured he won't be killed (because this is Canada, not North Korea or Syria) so why we should pay for him until he dies maybe at 90 years old, paying for his food, clothes, medicines, etc when he has ANOTHER citizenship.


You need another law to use other reasons. The reasons nowadays are very clear in this new law.

 

[screech339]

Let the stupidity rule through this Tory govt.

What's so stupid about neutral's post?

The terrorism was simply added to the list of reason to revoke citizenship. We had citizenship revoking due to treason as law the whole time (nobody complained about it) and the government simply added terrorism to the list, nothing more.

If there are any other reasons to revoke citizenship, a law has to be made and past to amend the citizenship law to add more reasons to revoke citizenship.

If you want to believe that CIC is going to strip someone of citizenship other than treason / terrorism, let's say jaywalking, the government need to introduce a bill that add jaywalking to the list. Once it passes parliament and senate and receives royal assent, only then can CIC strip citizenship from someone CONVICTED, after due process, of jaywalking.

That's how the system works. CIC cannot strip citizenship from any dual citizen convicted other than treason and terrorism and citizenship fraud. No other offense. Nothing else. If CIC does strip someone of citizenship other than treason / terrorism / citizenship fraud, than we have North Korea here (everyone likes to compare Canada to North Korea for some reason).

 

[CanadianCountry]

Its not the neutrals post, its the SCCA law. The law is a potpourri of stupidities with few high-lights.

What's so stupid about neutral's post?

The terrorism was simply added to the list of reason to revoke citizenship. We had citizenship revoking due to treason as law the whole time (nobody complained about it) and the government simply added terrorism to the list, nothing more.

If there are any other reasons to revoke citizenship, a law has to be made and past to amend the citizenship law to add more reasons to revoke citizenship.

If you want to believe that CIC is going to strip someone of citizenship other than treason / terrorism, let's say jaywalking, the government need to introduce a bill that add jaywalking to the list. Once it passes parliament and senate and receives royal assent, only then can CIC strip citizenship from someone CONVICTED, after due process, of jaywalking.

That's how the system works. CIC cannot strip citizenship from any dual citizen convicted other than treason and terrorism and citizenship fraud. No other offense. Nothing else. If CIC does strip someone of citizenship other than treason / terrorism / citizenship fraud, than we have North Korea here (everyone likes to compare Canada to North Korea for some reason).