OCI application with second citizenship anticipated

[Wacky1.nash]

I am a naturalised Canadian citizen, living in USA, expecting to obtain US citizenship in the coming months.

I was an Indian citizen before becoming Canadian, and have already completed the surrender/ renunciation process in 2022. I would like to apply for OCI now, and after that apply for OCI for my foreign-origin spouse.

My questions are:

1. If I were to apply for OCI now before becoming US citizen, my citizenship on OCI will be recorded as Canadian. If I later use a US passport to travel to India will I have any issues using my OCI to enter? (US citizens are required to use their US passport when leaving and entering the US, so travelling on the Canadian passport is not an option).
2. Is there a requirement to update OCI after acquiring US citizenship.
3. If I do update it, would two citizenships (US and Canada) be printed on my OCI information page?

I have tried to ask these questions through Pramit of Consulate of India (NY) website, but ofcourse, they do not answer (despite a promise of answering within 1 working day).

 

[forw.jane]

I am a naturalised Canadian citizen, living in USA, expecting to obtain US citizenship in the coming months.

I was an Indian citizen before becoming Canadian, and have already completed the surrender/ renunciation process in 2022. I would like to apply for OCI now, and after that apply for OCI for my foreign-origin spouse.

My questions are:

1. If I were to apply for OCI now before becoming US citizen, my citizenship on OCI will be recorded as Canadian. If I later use a US passport to travel to India will I have any issues using my OCI to enter? (US citizens are required to use their US passport when leaving and entering the US, so travelling on the Canadian passport is not an option).
2. Is there a requirement to update OCI after acquiring US citizenship.
3. If I do update it, would two citizenships (US and Canada) be printed on my OCI information page?

I have tried to ask these questions through Pramit of Consulate of India (NY) website, but ofcourse, they do not answer (despite a promise of answering within 1 working day).

1. Can't you use your Canadian passport and OCI to enter India?
2. No
3. It can be attached to only one passport. You can use the OCI miscellaneous service and switch from Canadian to USA. This would lead to a new OCI card.

 

[armoured]

1. Can't you use your Canadian passport and OCI to enter India?

If I understood this was about this question:
"If I later use a US passport to travel to India will I have any issues using my OCI to enter? (US citizens are required to use their US passport when leaving and entering the US, so travelling on the Canadian passport is not an option)."

On most airlines etc the case of having more than one passport is not rare and the airlines don't really care if the same individual uses one passport in one direction and/or one to exit one country, board plane, and another to enter the destination country.

So yes: one must use your US passport to enter the USA. The airline will want to see it before you board going from X to USA. But they don't much care if you use another passport (and I presume same holds for that passport plus OCI) to exit country X. Or US passport to exit USA* and OCI+Cdn to board the plane and enter India. Etc.

Main thing the airlines care about is that you will be allowed to enter the country they are taking you to.

Your mileage may vary and you should check with the airlines for each specific case. I don't know about what the OCI requires.

*FWIW I don't think USA actually cares if you use the US passport to exit the USA - they certainly don't at land borders. But not certain about that.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

1. Can't you use your Canadian passport and OCI to enter India?
2. No
3. It can be attached to only one passport. You can use the OCI miscellaneous service and switch from Canadian to USA. This would lead to a new OCI card.

Thanks for your answers to 2 and 3. I am clarifying my dilemma about 1 below:

By Law, US citizens are required to enter and exit USA using only US passport. Since I live in the US I would be flying from here to India directly. So after I become US citizen, I have to book my ticket using my future US passport details and show that at the check-in counter, security etc. The check-in counter would want to see my visa to India, to which I would show my OCI. I will carry my Canadian passport ofcourse, but will the airline care that the OCI is associated to my Canadian passport and not the passport I am flying with. Furthermore when entering India, would I need to show the passport that I flew with and my airline ticket is associated with (US passport). Would it be a problem that the OCI is associated with a different passport. Then when returning to US, I would again have to fly using US passport, and I think Indian immigration requires you to enter and exit using same passport....

I have been hassled by immigration in India before and really worried about getting harassed because of this....

 

[Wacky1.nash]

*FWIW I don't think USA actually cares if you use the US passport to exit the USA - they certainly don't at land borders. But not certain about that.

They don't?
State department website says, "U.S. nationals, including U.S. dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...quishing-US-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

Furthermore, I understand India also requires you to enter and exit using the SAME passport. So as far as I know I cannot enter using Canadian Passport and leave using US passport.

 

[armoured]

They don't?
State department website says, "U.S. nationals, including U.S. dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...quishing-US-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

I hadn't seen that, thank you. Still doesn't make sense to me - US has no controls on departure at land borders, and I don't think there is passport control on departure, but if they say it, they say it- I just don't know what it means.

Furthermore, I understand India also requires you to enter and exit using the SAME passport. So as far as I know I cannot enter using Canadian Passport and leave using US passport.

Repeating what I said before: leaving a country is one thing, what you present at passport control is how they regulate this. But the airlines will - in my experience - happily look at and clock / register that you plan to enter the country you are travelling to on a different passport. They are aware that people often have more than one citizenship. (Note, they will have to show the US passport on your booked travel to USA for the pre-clearance/boarding permission).

So leaving for USA if you entered india on Canadian passport: airline has your US passport info. You show the Canadian passport at passport (exit) control in India.

This isn't a weird thing. USA allows their citizens to hold more than one citizenship.

In fact the page you linked to says the same thing, essentially: "U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law. "

 

[Wacky1.nash]

I hadn't seen that, thank you. Still doesn't make sense to me - US has no controls on departure at land borders, and I don't think there is passport control on departure, but if they say it, they say it- I just don't know what it means.

Repeating what I said before: leaving a country is one thing, what you present at passport control is how they regulate this. But the airlines will - in my experience - happily look at and clock / register that you plan to enter the country you are travelling to on a different passport. They are aware that people often have more than one citizenship. (Note, they will have to show the US passport on your booked travel to USA for the pre-clearance/boarding permission).

So leaving for USA if you entered india on Canadian passport: airline has your US passport info. You show the Canadian passport at passport (exit) control in India.

This isn't a weird thing. USA allows their citizens to hold more than one citizenship.

In fact the page you linked to says the same thing, essentially: "U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law. "

Thanks for the information on the general flexibility by airlines. I guess this is not set in stone thought, and there may be exceptions, that I have to watch out for?

That last sentence is you quoted from the department of state website is stating - so long as you are not travelling to or from the US you can use another country's passport. So basically if I travel from US to India directly, I would need to use US passport. However, if I travel to Canada using US passport and then choose to travel to India using Canadian passport, that would not be unlawful.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

1. Can't you use your Canadian passport and OCI to enter India?
2. No
3. It can be attached to only one passport. You can use the OCI miscellaneous service and switch from Canadian to USA. This would lead to a new OCI card.

Hi I wanted to ask the source for your answer to 3. How do you know that India will not print more than one citizenship on the OCI?

 

[armoured]

So after I become US citizen, I have to book my ticket using my future US passport details and show that at the check-in counter, security etc. The check-in counter would want to see my visa to India, to which I would show my OCI. I will carry my Canadian passport ofcourse, but will the airline care that the OCI is associated to my Canadian passport and not the passport I am flying with. Furthermore when entering India, would I need to show the passport that I flew with and my airline ticket is associated with (US passport). Would it be a problem that the OCI is associated with a different passport. Then when returning to US, I would again have to fly using US passport, and I think Indian immigration requires you to enter and exit using same passport....

I have been hassled by immigration in India before and really worried about getting harassed because of this....

As I've explained - this scenario is quite common. I cannot say for certain about the OCI/Cdn Passport angle but:
-airlines ask to see documents that show you will be admitted to the country you're travelling to. You then use that passport to enter the other country. I don't see why that would be different with OCI.
-repeat, when you exit Indian passport control, you show the docs you used to enter. (If they wanted to see the other passport eg if shown on your boarding pass - then you show that passport. But mostly passport officers don't care about you getting on the plane - that's the airline's problem.)

Thanks for the information on the general flexibility by airlines. I guess this is not set in stone thought, and there may be exceptions, that I have to watch out for?

I'm not aware of any. But as I said: don't know about OCI. You can check with the airlines - but my experience is, good luck getting a straight answer from the airlines. They'll still tell you they airline's agent makes final decision at gate.

That last sentence is you quoted from the department of state website is stating - so long as you are not travelling to or from the US you can use another country's passport. So basically if I travel from US to India directly, I would need to use US passport. However, if I travel to Canada using US passport and then choose to travel to India using Canadian passport, that would not be unlawful.

No, I think you're reading the state department text incorrectly. It does not say "as long as you are NOT travelling to or from the US." It says it IS okay.

It says: "U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law." It says use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the US" is 'not inconsistent with US law' (i.e. it is okay).

Repeat: you only have to use the US passport to ENTER the USA and to EXIT the USA. At borders and passport control.

In practice, the airline will require you to provide info on the US passport [or visa or other approval if not a US citizen] in order to board a flight to USA. But nothing says you cannot use your other passport to enter/exit other countries.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

As I've explained - this scenario is quite common. I cannot say for certain about the OCI/Cdn Passport angle but:
-airlines ask to see documents that show you will be admitted to the country you're travelling to. You then use that passport to enter the other country. I don't see why that would be different with OCI.
-repeat, when you exit Indian passport control, you show the docs you used to enter. (If they wanted to see the other passport eg if shown on your boarding pass - then you show that passport. But mostly passport officers don't care about you getting on the plane - that's the airline's problem.)


I'm not aware of any. But as I said: don't know about OCI. You can check with the airlines - but my experience is, good luck getting a straight answer from the airlines. They'll still tell you they airline's agent makes final decision at gate.

No, I think you're reading the state department text incorrectly. It does not say "as long as you are NOT travelling to or from the US." It says it IS okay.

It says: "U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law." It says use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the US" is 'not inconsistent with US law' (i.e. it is okay).

Repeat: you only have to use the US passport to ENTER the USA and to EXIT the USA. At borders and passport control.

In practice, the airline will require you to provide info on the US passport [or visa or other approval if not a US citizen] in order to board a flight to USA. But nothing says you cannot use your other passport to enter/exit other countries.

Thank you for all your patience in replying to me. I find it very stressful dealing with VFS and Indian consulate, so I wanted to limit the number of times I have to make applications with them. So I was thinking to wait for US citizenship and then apply for OCI after. But I also want to get the process over with, especially because my husband's OCI process can start only after mine is issued.

With the information you have provided, I understand there is some gap of information on the OCI front, but in general there is a good deal of flexibility with airlines and switching passports during the course of travel. So I am gathering the risk of facing any issues travelling to India on US passport with OCI issued on Canadian passport is fairly low (but not zero).

 

[armoured]

So I am gathering the risk of facing any issues travelling to India on US passport with OCI issued on Canadian passport is fairly low (but not zero).

That would be my educated guess, yes.

I suppose you always have the option of going on indirect flights.

But after those points, no-one can really decide for you. Good luck.

 

[forw.jane]

Hi I wanted to ask the source for your answer to 3. How do you know that India will not print more than one citizenship on the OCI?

https://www.mha.gov.in/PDF_Other/6OCIcardholder_Miscservices_Introduction_15112019.pdf

Pt 2.2

 

[Wacky1.nash]

https://www.mha.gov.in/PDF_Other/6OCIcardholder_Miscservices_Introduction_15112019.pdf

Pt 2.2

Thanks. I have actually seen that document before. I think it is still ambiguous. The document simply says one can apply for reissuance incase of CHANGE of nationality. Change suggests the situation where a person was one nationality before, gave that up and took up another nationality. Eg: A Japanese citizen with OCI acquiring US citizenship and losing the Japanese citizenship in the process. It doesn't specifically address the situation where a person gains an additional citizenship.

I see your interpretation though. I think you are reading it as follows - "since they do not have the option to ADD citizenship, and only have the option of change of citizenship, they do not allow addition of new citizenship. Your OCI can be associated with only one citizenship at a time."

I see your interpretation as valid, but not convinced if it is a case of India just not addressing all the scenarios.

I am going to try to make more efforts to get an answer directly from the consulate of India or MEA. I don't have much hope of getting a response, but will try and will report back here, if I hear something.

 

[forw.jane]

Thanks. I have actually seen that document before. I think it is still ambiguous. The document simply says one can apply for reissuance incase of CHANGE of nationality. Change suggests the situation where a person was one nationality before, gave that up and took up another nationality. Eg: A Japanese citizen with OCI acquiring US citizenship and losing the Japanese citizenship in the process. It doesn't specifically address the situation where a person gains an additional citizenship.

I see your interpretation though. I think you are reading it as follows - "since they do not have the option to ADD citizenship, and only have the option of change of citizenship, they do not allow addition of new citizenship. Your OCI can be associated with only one citizenship at a time."

I see your interpretation as valid, but not convinced if it is a case of India just not addressing all the scenarios.

I am going to try to make more efforts to get an answer directly from the consulate of India or MEA. I don't have much hope of getting a response, but will try and will report back here, if I hear something.

I doubt they will do that in Nationality field - CAN, USA

They always try to make money and rolling out a new booklet is a good way to do it.

Good luck with your search for answer.