what is dual intent?

[canadianwoman]

I wouldn't bother saying anything about dual intent to the border officials. Bring proof you own a house in the UK.

 

[toby]

Re: what is dual indent?

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

Dual intent means you have 2 intentions. One intent to move to Canada as a PR. And two, the intent to visit temporarily. Dual intent means that just because you have a PR application in doesn't mean that you can't get a TRV. They allow you to do both things at once. If you try to get a TRV and they think you wont leave at the end of the visit they still will not give you a TRV.

The fact that you have a PR application in can be positive for you however...since they know that processing your PR visa requires you to be home for interviews and or to supply your passport they KNOW you have to return home so they might be more likely to approve a PR. That is how my wife came to visit this past Christmas while her PR is being processed.

I agree with frolic’s viewpoint on this matter, Leon, based on my personal experience.

My wife applied for PR in November 2009, and a temporary visa in June 2010, citing Dual intent in support of her TRV application. The VO refused her TRV application because he was not convinced she would leave Canada by the end of the TRV period. The VO ignored the argument that it would be silly to overstay her TRV period because that would presumably jeopardize her PR application.

I know our case was a bit different from the normal case on which you base your explanation of Dual Intent, in that I don't live in Canada, but living in China did not figure in the O's thinking (as per the CAIPS notes I got afterward).

Summary: All Dual Intent does is open the door for a TRV while PR is being considered, a door that would otherwise be closed on principle. But Dual Intent and a TRV application will be dismissed unless the applicant provides strong proof he/she will return to the motherland before the TRV period ends.

 

[mossee]

My husband came up to Canada with me, just a lil over 2 weeks ago, from the USA. We were prepared with all our documents. We went through the Peach Arch border and were sent inside. We just told the agent that he was coming up to stay with me while we waited for his PR application to go through. I showed her my letter from CIC-M, showing I had been approved on the sponsorship part, and she asked where all his worldly possessions were. We told him back at his parents house. And she left us and came back with a visitor record good for 6 months, told us that if we didn't get his visa before that time to either come back or phone in for an extension.

I stressed over this dual intent thing for weeks prior to his arrival! But it really wasn't as bad as I imagined it to be.

I did not mention anything about a visitor record or dual intent, I just let her do her thing and I got just what I was hoping for

 

[Canadagirl85]

With a passport from the UK, you will almost certainly be let in without having to say anything about dual intent. Still, it is best to have proof with you just in case they ask. Proof of enough money in your account for your stay is a good start. I would have a return ticket, which you will probably need to get on the plane anyway. Show any ties to the UK you still have - an apartment, property, bank accounts. Also bring proof of your PR application and the sponsorship approval letter.

For the people who need TRVs to get in, you will probably be denied with a PR application in process. Note Frolic's wife got a TRV by leaving her son behind. Leaving a child behind is very good proof you will be returning to your country, but is not an option for most.

For countries where people need a TRV to enter Canada, the visa officers are very suspicious and do not seem to pay much attention to the 'dual intent' rules. There is no harm in trying, but gather as much proof as possible that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay.

Canadianwoman you know so much! haha I feel like your always answering peoples questions lol .So now I have a quick one after reading your post. You said someone with a passport from the UK people will most likly be let in with out having to deal with duel intent. Me and my wife are debatng on crossing into the US and coming back into canada once her visitors visa expires to get her visitors visa renewed... any clue if this would work. She has a European passport.

 

[rosellyalung]

Does dual intent helps with the TRV application?

 

[canadianwoman]

Canadagirl85, if you are applying inland, it would be safer not to leave. Even with a passport from a country that does not require a visa to enter Canada, there is always a chance the border official will not let you in, and then your inland application is over. You can just apply to extend her stay.

 

[frolic]

Does dual intent helps with the TRV application?

Dual intent ALLOWS for you to apply for a TRV when you have a PR application already in process. It can help or hinder you depending on what they think of your TRV application.

If you have a PR in process...and apply for a TRV with no job and no reason to go back home, and say you are going for tourism they will probably say no.

If you have a PR in process...and apply for a TRV with a job, son at home, give good reasons for your visit that are reasonable given your situation, they may say yes. In my case my wife was coming to visit me, investigate housing and meet my family for Christmas.

 

[rosellyalung]

@frolic0- i guess your wife was approved right? did she apply for single or multpile?

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

If you have a PR in process...and apply for a TRV with a job, son at home, give good reasons for your visit that are reasonable given your situation, they may say yes. In my case my wife was coming to visit me, investigate housing and meet my family for Christmas.

It also depends greatly on the country you're applying from... my wife was just turned down for TRV, we have two businesses still operating, own a home and car, and planned to leave our youngest with his grand parents to check out a house in BC, that includes her having been approved for TRV's on TWO previous attempts.. we were turned down this time and when we asked about dual intent, they said that is a quaint PC idea that seldom happens in the real world... go figure.

 

[rosellyalung]

@bangkok-really? btw, where country are you applying? what is the reason for the refusal?

 

[aerogurl87]

So can you get an extension for a work permit under dual intent if you apply outland? I'm confused about that myself.

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

@ bangkok-really? btw, where country are you applying? what is the reason for the refusal?

Applied in Bangkok, they were nice enough about it, we didn't press that hard on the actual specific reason for the refusal. But likely they simply aren't bright enough to figure out we aren't planning to leave a child and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of assets behind... it just speaks to the drone like mentality of the workers in the civil service for the most part.. we expected to be turned down so it was not really that big a deal. I will save my bitching and moaning to the brass for a trip that really matters to us. The house we thought we wanted turned out to not be in the catchment we were told it was so not that big a deal to lose it.

 

[toby]

It also depends greatly on the country you're applying from... my wife was just turned down for TRV, we have two businesses still operating, own a home and car, and planned to leave our youngest with his grand parents to check out a house in BC, that includes her having been approved for TRV's on TWO previous attempts.. we were turned down this time and when we asked about dual intent, they said that is a quaint PC idea that seldom happens in the real world... go figure.

What is a "PC" idea?

Their dismissing the concept of Dual Intent as "quaint" agrees with my assessment: it is a form of hypocrisy to say "we will allow you to visit Canada as long as you have strong ties to your home country -- ties which we realize you will be prepared to break if you are granted PR."

Really, how can ties be strong if you are willing to break them and move to Canada as a PR?

At the end of the day, it is the subjective judgment of the visa officer that matters, not official policy, and VOs are demonstrably inconsistent -- arriving at different decisions for similar cases.

 

[canadianwoman]

@ bangkok-really? btw, where country are you applying? what is the reason for the refusal?

Really, I want to know where frolic applied from. Because getting refused for a TRV when you have a PR application in process is normal, even though dual intent is a supposed policy of the Canadian government.
If Bangkokcanuck couldn't even get one for his wife when they were leaving a child behind, I think that clinches it - dual intent is something the VOs are supposed to be taking into account, but they aren't. At least in certain countries.

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

What is a "PC" idea?

Politically Correct

Their dismissing the concept of Dual Intent as "quaint" agrees with my assessment: it is a form of hypocrisy to say "we will allow you to visit Canada as long as you have strong ties to your home country -- ties which we realize you will be prepared to break if you are granted PR."

Really, how can ties be strong if you are willing to break them and move to Canada as a PR?

that is very much how we looked at it.. they are almost saying if you can prove you have strong enough ties to go back for the TRV maybe you aren't really ready to leave should your PR be granted.. not saying anyone ever verbalized that thought but it sure seems like Dual Intent is an idea or process the rarely comes to pass.

At the end of the day, it is the subjective judgment of the visa officer that matters, not official policy, and VOs are demonstrably inconsistent -- arriving at different decisions for similar cases.

It is tough that's for sure because if we say we want all PRs to be dealt with by this template to take away subjectivity someone is going to show up and say well I don't fit that mold exactly but should still be approved so we end up where we are now, getting in or not in large part due to what some person that has never met you or your family "feels" about your life and how real they perceive it to be.. quite a slippery slope