What have you noticed is different in Canada?

[The Littlest Hobo]

Very, very similar. I know neither Americans nor Canadians like to hear this, but honestly, you're extremely similar.

That is so funny to hear you say this Karlshammar! I lived in Sweden briefly and worked in lots of Scandinavian groups and the Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians admitted they were very similar... a good conversation for us to have over a Carlsberg one night in the Market, eh? ;D

LOL, you're right that we hate to hear this, but I also noted that you lived in big cities in the blue states... so very liberal places. And even there you still find people with guns in their glove-boxes and protests against government environment/health intiatives as Orwellian or Communist attempts to create a totalitarian state. In general I believe that in the US you have more extremes (rich/poor, educated/illiteracy, left/right), and Canadian (Southern Ontario/Montreal/Ottawa, and Vancouver areas at least) politics are very notably SECULAR, and may be comparable to the political left/blue states and big university cities like Boston or Seattle. Whereas my brief time living in Alberta, Kansas, and New Mexico tells me that these are whole other ball games... My overall impression of these places was: super-warm and friendly on the outside (polite and chatty, respectful drivers and grocery shoppers, never in a hurry, "please, after you!", etc.), but with an ultra-conservative core that terrified me!!! I never before knew what true racism and homophobia really looked like, nor that they could really still exist in this day and age... seemingly ordinary, friendly, smart people, but with such right-wing politics that make Michael Moore movies look like an understatement. I have had some eye-opening experiences as well involving Albertans, and I know that it's considered the "Texas" of Canada but I don't believe it's anywhere near the extreme of the American bible-belt.

Each time I go to the US (even the blue states) I feel there are more and more differences. And I'm profoundly frightened by what I see there. More than once I've seen, or rather found myself in the midst of police with guns drawn in the process of arresting/throwing someone to the ground on crowded sidewalks - never saw that in 8-10 years living downtown Toronto! One day waiting in the lounge at an airport with my American colleagues the shocking news of a school shooting rampage was shown on TV. One of them commented that "the other children should have had guns too, so they could have fought back". He wasn't joking. About 1998 or so, I heard an announcement one morning on the hotel room clock-radio in sweet ol' family-values Kansas City: "come on down folks, the KKK is having a recruitment drive today!" And on my last visit: Walking down the green-belt along a river in a major Ohio city and wanted a rest, so sat down on a park bench at a playground, enjoying the entertaining action of the kids. There were some young mothers chatting while their children played, (obviously not wealthy, the accents/slang/grammar gave it away). A little girl, maybe 3 or 4 was playing with her sister and I didn't see what happened but she started crying loudly and ran to say something to her mother. The mother responded by shouting "Well, hit the b*tch back!" I guess I feel the US is a society of extremes that does itself harm by pretending that everyone has an equal chance, so there is no need to cooperate as a society to look after everyone, not even just to properly educate everyone so they could look after themselves. I guess if schools are not allowed to educate teens about safe s*x and abortion is illegal and there's not really much support to help a single teen-mother raise a healthy baby and certainly if she had a job her employer won't give her more than a couple weeks off work (6-weeks unpaid leave, is it still true?).... and gee, I wonder whether that child-mom or her child will finish school or end up selling crack?


No matter how much great stuff is going on there, that doesn't compensate for the really, really bad stuff going on as well - it's not a valid excuse to say "that's not true of everyone" - of course it isn't but if it's true of anyone that's too much! And it's not an excuse to say "it's not the people, it's the politics/policies" because the values are ingrained in the people, we cannot help it - it's cultural! They are problems of the society, which creates and is created by the structure of the system and the values. And I believe there is nowhere in Canada that has these kinds of social problems at that scale (if we ignore the issues in Aboriginal communities, which we always do). I hope not to offend Americans, truly, I'm sure one could list many great things (depending on what one's priorities are, what one defines as 'great') about the US and depending on the measure you choose, Canada's 'greats' may not be as great, but I think on any measure you choose, our 'bads' are nowhere near as bad as those in the US. I think Canada tries to be 'good' all across the board, and if we achieve this, it is something to be really proud of. Even if we don't have a huge parade and baton-twirlers to congratulate ourselves about it (and yes, I get the hypocrisy of boasting about humility... sorry).

I think Canada has a ways to go to achieve the attitudes and politics of Sweden (if that is our goal? I think it should be, although it's not a Utopia, to me it seems "ahead" of most places in the world), but in my opinion we are fundamentally different from Americans and from the US as a country. And for me, no offense intended but purely as a socio-cultural observation based on my obvious bias, the fact that we are different is mainly a positive thing.

I guess this debate exists everywhere, a group only identifies itself when contrasted against another and there is always a defensiveness when the "little brother" group is not taken seriously as having his own identity or character; if you are from the outside, you see the similarities between groups, if you are from the inside you focus on the differences. I guess it would be the same for Ireland or Scotland compared to England, NZ to Australia, Portugal or the Basque to Spain, Pakistan or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to India, Hong Kong or Taiwan to China, French and Flemish Belgium, East Timor and West Timor, etc.

I found reading Geert Hofstede's work a fascinating way to look at/undertand cultural differences. Although it's about 30 years old now and many things changed in the world, it's still relevant at a general level and gives interesting insight into what different values mean in terms of policy/practice. It helped me a lot to understand conflicts I experienced living in Indonesia between the collectivist-individualist approaches. It takes a lot of work to understand and live in an entirely different culture, the most important thing I've learned though is that there is ALWAYS a reason, usually a logical one, to explain why people do things differently. If you understand why, then you won't be so frustrated. The exception might be tailgating in Toronto. Sorry about that!

 

[Karlshammar]

I was generalizing. You can generalize and find extreme pockets of America, but Compton or a part of Deep South countryside is not representative of America in general, any more than aboriginal reservations are representative of Canada in general.

It's also worth noting that rednecks are only parts of the U.S.A., whereas Canada is known to be rednecky in rural areas almost all over the country...

I certainly hope Canada never turns into anything like Sweden! I just got out of that cesspit, which I consider one of the worst of all western countries, and certainly don't want to see a my standard of life decrease to that low (by western standards) level again.

I find it strange that you've been in the middle of police raids multiple times. I lived in the U.S. for several years and it didn't happen even once. I think you may have had unfortunate, but not representative, experiences of America.

I don't think many people think the other kids should have had guns. Teachers, perhaps, with which I would have to agree. Israel used to have enormous problems with terrorists shooting in schools, but after arming teachers the problems largely stopped, so it's a proven solution and not just a political idae.

The KKK or similar idiotic groups exist all over. The U.S. has perhaps the strongest right to freedom of speech of any country in the world, so even the KKK is allowed to advertise. As much as I despise the KKK (being both atheist and completely anti-racist) I do support their right to free speech.

"That's not true of everyone" is certainly a valid explanation. There are people like that in EVERY country, so then every country is just as bad. But of course that's not the way it is. Overall the U.S.A. is a great country, just like Canada, and both of them far more so than Sweden, heh.

 

[The Littlest Hobo]

LOL, that's funny that we had such different experiences/impressions of the US and Sweden! Glad we both agree that Canada's a nice place to be ;D

Stay warm,
TLH

 

[Siawo]

Here is something that I came across:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Canada+same/2674130/story.html