What are the set livingrequirements for my common-law based permanent residence?

[Rob_TO]

Cond 51 achieves it's goals by using "time spent together" as a method for determining sincerity. They have fallen for the modern ideal and thrown out the old ideals. There's a million ways to deal with fraudulent applicants, but the specific method they chose is very telling indeed.

It's the easiest possible way to deal with fraudulent relationships. Before this rule came into effect, it took tremendous time, cost and resources to track down all fraud claims after someone got PR, and only a tiny fraction of the fraudsters were actually caught and deported. This is nothing new, as other countries have had this similar rule in place for quite some time now.

Common-law may be harder to fake (debatable) but it can also be much more easily entered into by people who are no where near ready to "get married" and don't even like each other all that much.

It's not even debatable, it's simple fact. To fake a marriage, you can do it in 1 day by simply registering and getting married in a civic ceremony. To fake common-law, you actually need to prove you lived together 1 year first. There's a reason practically every single case of fraud you read about in the news is via marriage, not common-law.

but we have spent several generations drilling it into the heads of young people that marriage means nothing.

That is your own opinion, and you are welcome to it. However neither myself, nor my family, nor my friends, nor it seems most other people on this site... even remotely agree with you. Marriage means a lot, but I also understand that there are other legal ways to show your commitment and be together with someone forever. Luckily CIC is not so narrow minded that they will only accept certain traditional ways to do things, and not adapt as the world changes. So you are welcome to your old-time views but should realize you're in the vast minority on the subject.

 

[steerpike]

It's the easiest possible way to deal with fraudulent relationships. Before this rule came into effect, it took tremendous time, cost and resources to track down all fraud claims after someone got PR, and only a tiny fraction of the fraudsters were actually caught and deported. This is nothing new, as other countries have had this similar rule in place for quite some time now.

It also lumps genuine relationships which break up after 2 years (or even couples who are apart for more than 2 weeks like millions of couples do) as "fraudulent". For example, the shining example of commonlaw relationship this thread was started by. Turning innocent people into de-facto criminals is never the best solution to a legal problem.

It's not even debatable, it's simple fact. To fake a marriage, you can do it in 1 day by simply registering and getting married in a civic ceremony. To fake common-law, you actually need to prove you lived together 1 year first. There's a reason practically every single case of fraud you read about in the news is via marriage, not common-law.

You are just making things up now. You have no stats on that. And in fact, the most common type of immigration fraud does indeed involve people pretending to live in Canada while they are not.

That is your own opinion, and you are welcome to it.

I don't need you to tell me what opinions I am welcome to. I am welcome to my opinions regardless of whether or not you grant me that favour. Thank you.

However neither myself, nor my family, nor my friends, nor it seems most other people on this site... even remotely agree with you. Marriage means a lot

You just contradicted yourself. The majority on this site do not think marriage means "a lot".

, but I also understand that there are other legal ways to show your commitment and be together with someone forever.

Or you can go the common-law route and not commit at all.

Luckily CIC is not so narrow minded that they will only accept certain traditional ways to do things, and not adapt as the world changes. So you are welcome to your old-time views but should realize you're in the vast minority on the subject.

Whether my view is the minority or not is completely irrelevant to me. I am not a sheep following the flock, i am a free thinker. Apparently that makes people angry.

 

[Rob_TO]

It also lumps genuine relationships which break up after 2 years (or even couples who are apart for more than 2 weeks like millions of couples do) as "fraudulent". For example, the shining example of commonlaw relationship this thread was started by. Turning innocent people into de-facto criminals is never the best solution to a legal problem.

Yep and there will never be an easy solution to combating immigration fraud, without having some couples with genuine relationships or who's relationship breaks down due to natural reasons... caught in the crossfire.

You are just making things up now. You have no stats on that. And in fact, the most common type of immigration fraud does indeed involve people pretending to live in Canada while they are not.

Huh? People pretending to live in Canada? No clue what you're talking about.

You just contradicted yourself. The majority on this site do not think marriage means "a lot".

Sure they do. But that's the problem when you have such a narrow view on a topic.. just because people think common-law is a perfectly acceptable way to immigrate here, doesn't mean they don't understand what being married means or represents.

Or you can go the common-law route and not commit at all.

Saying being common-law involves no commitment at all, is just being ignorant.

Whether my view is the minority or not is completely irrelevant to me. I am not a sheep following the flock, i am a free thinker. Apparently that makes people angry.

As I said, nobody is questioning your right to have an opinion. The rest of us are just glad that CIC is not as narrow minded or stuck in ways from over 40 years ago, and actually adapts to change and the reality of relationships today.

 

[steerpike]

Huh? People pretending to live in Canada? No clue what you're talking about.

Jason Kenney announces 3,100 people being stripped of citizenship for fraud:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/09/jason-kenney-expected-to-announce-2900-being-stripped-of-citizenship-for-fraud/

 

[Rob_TO]

Jason Kenney announces 3,100 people being stripped of citizenship for fraud:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/09/jason-kenney-expected-to-announce-2900-being-stripped-of-citizenship-for-fraud/

This is citizenship fraud.

It has absolutely nothing to do with people getting PR through fraudulent spousal sponsorship, and is irrelevant here.

 

[Ponga]

This is like coming upon a bad accident. You don't want to look [read], but you just can't help it.

 

[steerpike]

This is citizenship fraud.

It has absolutely nothing to do with people getting PR through fraudulent spousal sponsorship, and is irrelevant here.

Your only argument is that you think it is unlikely people will pretend to live together to get immigration status (you have no stats whatsoever). My link proves you wrong.

 

[Rob_TO]

Your only argument is that you think it is unlikely people will pretend to live together to get immigration status (you have no stats whatsoever). My link proves you wrong.

Your link proves nothing. We are talking about getting PR, not getting citizenship. The 2 are completely different processes, with completely different burdens of proof required.

There is NO COHABITATION REQUIREMENT required for citizenship, only that one is in Canada.

People faking that they are in Canada when they are really not in order to meet the residency obligation to get citizenship, is not applicable or relevant to PERMANENT RESIDENT spousal applications. The evidence one submits for citizenship apps is much less and completely different than for PR apps so the 2 are not even comparable. In case you don't know, meeting X number of days of residency in Canada is completely meaningless to a PR app.

I have also told you, EVERY SINGLE CASE I HAVE EVER READ about immigration fraud, has involved a fraudulent marriage. I can point you to dozens of cases. I welcome you to find just 1 or 2 cases where people have fraudulently gotten PR to Canada by faking common-law.

 

[steerpike]

Your link proves nothing. We are talking about getting PR, not getting citizenship. The 2 are completely different processes, with completely different burdens of proof required.

There is NO COHABITATION REQUIREMENT required for citizenship, only that one is in Canada.

People faking that they are in Canada when they are really not in order to meet the residency obligation to get citizenship, is not applicable or relevant to PERMANENT RESIDENT spousal applications. The evidence one submits for citizenship apps is much less and completely different than for PR apps so the 2 are not even comparable. In case you don't know, meeting X number of days of residency in Canada is completely meaningless to a PR app.

I have also told you, EVERY SINGLE CASE I HAVE EVER READ about immigration fraud, has involved a fraudulent marriage. I can point you to dozens of cases. I welcome you to find just 1 or 2 cases where people have fraudulently gotten PR to Canada by faking common-law.

lol. You are the one making the claim that one type of fraud is more common than another. So it is your responsibility to prove that claim, or at least show some evidence. You haven't done that. Don't make claims you can't back up.

Also, keep in mind, i'm not claiming the people who live together for 1 year are lying about that or committing fraud. They are playing by the current rules. I'm just saying that since they havent made a committment to each other, we should not be making a committment to them by giving them PR.


We see constant posts from people who want to sponsor their bf or gf and they openly state they are in no way ready to get married, but they still want PR status for their partner anyway. And Canada is crazy enough to give it to them.

 

[swedenTOcanada]

This thread truly escalated.

We realized the situation was not ideal and as mentioned several times in here, these things happen.

We ended up just waiting it out. Staying friends, sharing address and helping each other out to file taxes and so forth. After all, we where not trying to scam the system, just trying to do the best with the situation that unfolded. I am a truly independent PR now and can finally apply for Citizenship as of December 2017.

I hope others will find this thread useful in terms of finding their own way of dealing with this, it was an uncomfortable period in both of lives but it ended up well in the end.

Thanks everyone that chimed in on this controversial topic.