Visiting spouse/ going outside country during outland spousal application process

[The Robust]

Hi,

My spousal application is outland. I am planning to visit my spouse in home country but due to covid there is a possibility that I might not be able to come back soon maybe it might be more than 2 to 3 months to return depending on flights bringing people back. If someone is outside Canada for three to four months while the spousal application is in process does it affect the application? I have not yet received the AOR1 so the file processing hasnt started I believe.

Hi, did you travel and for how long was your trip?

 

[raj_tan]

Hi Folks,
Just to clarify all your doubts, As long as you are employed in Canada and paying tax here, travelling on vacation/business purpose is allowed.
My colleague who applied for spouse sponsorship last year got the application approved.
Below are his timelines :

Submitted - Feb, 2020 (I dont remember the exact date)
AOR/SA/Biometrics/Medical done - OCT,2020
Dec 15th, 2020 - Sponsor traveled to India for year end vacation and continued to remotely work from India until Feb 6th,2021 (due to pandemic, we are WFH )
DM - Dec,2020
PPR - first week of January,2021
Feb 07th, 2021 - They Both landed together in Canada.

Hope this is helpful for people who are confused about visiting outside Canada for some duration.

 

[canuck78]

Hi Folks,
Just to clarify all your doubts, As long as you are employed in Canada and paying tax here, travelling on vacation/business purpose is allowed.
My colleague who applied for spouse sponsorship last year got the application approved.
Below are his timelines :

Submitted - Feb, 2020 (I dont remember the exact date)
AOR/SA/Biometrics/Medical done - OCT,2020
Dec 15th, 2020 - Sponsor traveled to India for year end vacation and continued to remotely work from India until Feb 6th,2021 (due to pandemic, we are WFH )
DM - Dec,2020
PPR - first week of January,2021
Feb 07th, 2021 - They Both landed together in Canada.

Hope this is helpful for people who are confused about visiting outside Canada for some duration.

If you are a PR that is incorrect. Either /IRCC did not realize that he was outside Canada or it was overlooked due to covid (just realized it was around 8 weeks but you can certainly be denied for 8 weeks). You can certainly be denied for much less time out of Canada and it has nothing to do with where you pay taxes. Requirements actually specify that a PR sponsoring family must be in Canada.

 

[SKRPrince09]

If you are a PR that is incorrect. Either /IRCC did not realize that he was outside Canada or it was overlooked due to covid. You can certainly be denied for much less time out of Canada and it has nothing to do with where you pay taxes. Requirements actually specify that a PR sponsoring family must be in Canada.

I don't think this is true. I have verified this with at least 5 different IRCC agents and 2 CBSA officers at the airport. All of them imply that spousal application has nothing to do with PR travelling in & out and as long as PR satisfies the residential obligations (2 out of 5 years).

If there is such a rule in their rule book, then every sponsor who stepped out of the country during the process must receive a reject on the application. It cant be that they missed to check the status. In the past, may be people were being rejected because they were outside for a significant period or may the officer didn't think the sponsor had intentions to return to Canada.

Applications take longer than 1 year these days due to covid-19 and there could be more than reasons why sponsor may travel outside Canada. Infact, sponsor has more reasons to travel outside to meet his/her family just because the application is not being processed within SLA. This doesn't mean the application should get rejected. Even the officers handling the files are humans like us.

 

[SKRPrince09]

Did anybody visit their spouse outside of Canada for 1-2 months without application being affected?My application has been in progress for 14 months now but is delayed due to Covid.

I visited my family for just over 1 month back in September 2020 (Due to family emergency). My application is still in process. Almost 16 months now.
Am planning for another visit this month end if still no progress.

Let me know if you stepped out of Canada yet and for how long ?

 

[canuck78]

I don't think this is true. I have verified this with at least 5 different IRCC agents and 2 CBSA officers at the airport. All of them imply that spousal application has nothing to do with PR travelling in & out and as long as PR satisfies the residential obligations (2 out of 5 years).

If there is such a rule in their rule book, then every sponsor who stepped out of the country during the process must receive a reject on the application. It cant be that they missed to check the status. In the past, may be people were being rejected because they were outside for a significant period or may the officer didn't think the sponsor had intentions to return to Canada.

Applications take longer than 1 year these days due to covid-19 and there could be more than reasons why sponsor may travel outside Canada. Infact, sponsor has more reasons to travel outside to meet his/her family just because the application is not being processed within SLA. This doesn't mean the application should get rejected. Even the officers handling the files are humans like us.

I am sure it is true. As a PR you must remain in Canada as your spousal sponsorship is processed. I have also seen people be denied for much less time than you spent abroad. A short vacation of 2-3 weeks seem to be overlooked but if IRCC had realized you were living in India during the sponsorship you would have been denied unless there is a special exemption due to covid. Many application take longer than 1 year even before covid and some closer to 2 years. Yes you can travel outside Canada when sponsoring but not for long periods of time. I am not sure who you were speaking to but this is a well known rule and it specifies that you must be in Canada as a PR applying for family sponsorship. It is done to ensure people have established current ties to Canada before approving PR for the spouse. It is a sacrifice for most PRs but is a requirement. Citizens do not need to remain in Canada.

Unfortunately IRCC agents are often wrong and CBSA wouldn't be familiar with all the sponsorship requirements because it is not part of their job.

 

[SKRPrince09]

I am sure it is true. As a PR you must remain in Canada as your spousal sponsorship is processed. I have also seen people be denied for much less time than you spent abroad. A short vacation of 2-3 weeks seem to be overlooked but if IRCC had realized you were living in India during the sponsorship you would have been denied unless there is a special exemption due to covid. Many application take longer than 1 year even before covid and some closer to 2 years. Yes you can travel outside Canada when sponsoring but not for long periods of time. I am not sure who you were speaking to but this is a well known rule and it specifies that you must be in Canada as a PR applying for family sponsorship. It is done to ensure people have established current ties to Canada before approving PR for the spouse. It is a sacrifice for most PRs but is a requirement. Citizens do not need to remain in Canada.

Thanks for your response. I actually agree to most of your points. Someone stepping outside for a significant amount of time may create doubts for the officers. But short trips should be allowed. 2-3 weeks is just inhumane during covid times considering most countries have a 2 week quarantine. Something around 1 month should be a generous number.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks for your response. I actually agree to most of your points. Someone stepping outside for a significant amount of time may create doubts for the officers. But short trips should be allowed. 2-3 weeks is just inhumane during covid times considering most countries have a 2 week quarantine. Something around 1 month should be a generous number.

There is no clear amount of time abroad that is ever allowed. Based on anecdotal tales 2-3 weeks seem to be overlooked. How many of these 2-3 weeks visiting a spouse is very unclear. You already spent 1.5 months abroad. Nobody can tell you what will be acceptable.

 

[armoured]

Hi Folks,
Just to clarify all your doubts, As long as you are employed in Canada and paying tax here, travelling on vacation/business purpose is allowed.
My colleague who applied for spouse sponsorship last year got the application approved.
Below are his timelines :

Submitted - Feb, 2020 (I dont remember the exact date)
AOR/SA/Biometrics/Medical done - OCT,2020
Dec 15th, 2020 - Sponsor traveled to India for year end vacation and continued to remotely work from India until Feb 6th,2021 (due to pandemic, we are WFH )
DM - Dec,2020
PPR - first week of January,2021
Feb 07th, 2021 - They Both landed together in Canada.

Hope this is helpful for people who are confused about visiting outside Canada for some duration.

I would caution strongly against taking this as any kind of dispositive proof that visits of any kind/duration are acceptable, even of a month and a half. I bolded specific timing in the case here: sponsor here seems to have been in Canada throughout most of the process and (coincidentally it seems) travelled at about the same time DM and PPR occurred. In other words, he was only outside Canada for about three weeks when the PPR came.

Short visits and business trips are clearly allowed - but no information available on how long is acceptable (many here suggest keeping below a month). It has always been a question how strictly this policy is enforced, and (perhaps related) it may also depend when officers check. In the case above it could simply be that any checks were done before the sponsor left Canada (or had only been abroad for a short period).

 

[bishcan]

There is no clear amount of time abroad that is ever allowed. Based on anecdotal tales 2-3 weeks seem to be overlooked. How many of these 2-3 weeks visiting a spouse is very unclear. You already spent 1.5 months abroad. Nobody can tell you what will be acceptable.

Please stop pressurizing people with info you don't have proof of. There are atleast 4 - 5 exapmle of ppl traveled out after process started but 0 of those whose application got rejected for this reason. Due to this Pandemic I couldn't visit while my child was born or even for the first birthday. IRCC is not a bunch of Robots, If you are visiting for genuine reasons, even if they figure out, they can't reject for just sake of an unclear rule. I am waiting for my Sponsor approval and if possible other PA requests, and I am surely going to visit my family after that for atleast 2 months. If my app is rejected, I will challenge the decision for sure. I am a Tax Payer in Canada even when I am out for 2 months or even 3. As long as I don't lose my own PR due to expiry of the status, I am an PR.

I would like to see the posts and reasons for which ppl here are quoting the reaon not to travel.

 

[armoured]

I would like to see the posts and reasons for which ppl here are quoting the reaon not to travel.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-assessing-sponsor.html

As you can see this is the operational bulletin/manual for assessing family class sponsorship and specifically the sponsor.

The relevant text is:
"A permanent resident residing abroad is not eligible to submit a family class sponsorship.

A sponsor must be residing in Canada, unless they are a Canadian citizen residing abroad sponsoring a spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child (provided that the dependent child does not have dependent children of their own) [R130(2)].

Sponsors who maintain a principal residence in Canada are not considered to be in violation of residency requirements if they:

• take short holidays or business trips outside Canada on a temporary basis
• have work arrangements that require them to be outside Canada for temporary finite periods of time, but return to live in Canada in between assignments (such as ship crew or seasonal workers)

Persons who do not maintain a principal residence in Canada and who live and work abroad and only return to Canada for short visits are not considered to meet residency requirements."

You can read and interpret that as you wish. There is no specific definition here of short holidays nor of how precisely they will define "residency." (There are basically two implied hard definitions - "not considered to be in violation of residency requirements" and "not considered to meet residency requirements" - with grey area between them, which is where officers may make an assessment.)

If you're willing to take the risk and/or assess the risk to be low, that's your decision.

If you are visiting for genuine reasons, even if they figure out, they can't reject for just sake of an unclear rule. I am waiting for my Sponsor approval and if possible other PA requests, and I am surely going to visit my family after that for atleast 2 months. If my app is rejected, I will challenge the decision for sure. I am a Tax Payer in Canada even when I am out for 2 months or even 3. As long as I don't lose my own PR due to expiry of the status, I am an PR.

They must make an assessment according to the same regs and decide; they certainly can decide to reject on the basis of that assessment. I'm not even clear that they are required to provide a procedural fairness letter (I dont' believe so but not certain), i.e. a sponsor may not have the ability to 'explain' or justify.

Tax payer status or PR status alone are clearly not sufficient - as the regs clearly state, a PR residing abroad is not eligible. (And I'll repeat: there is no clear definition of how 'residing abroad' will be defined or treated, apart from those who maintain principal residence are allowed 'short trips' - which clearly implies that 'long trips' may be treated as not within the intended scope.).

I'd note: you seem confident that you can 'challenge the decision.' Perhaps. Even if an appeal process is allowed (not clear to me), if that is the only reason for refusal, an appeal would likely be far more time consuming and costly than simply re-applying (once back in Canada). (Anyone who has looked at the spouse appeal threads would know the process is long and unpleasant - especially long).

Again, not trying to scare you, just inform you: it's your decision. It's clear enforcement of this is uneven at best - no better info than that is available. If you think two months is fine, that's your call.

Good luck and sorry you've been apart from your spouse and child.

 

[bishcan]

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-assessing-sponsor.html

As you can see this is the operational bulletin/manual for assessing family class sponsorship and specifically the sponsor.

The relevant text is:
"A permanent resident residing abroad is not eligible to submit a family class sponsorship.

A sponsor must be residing in Canada, unless they are a Canadian citizen residing abroad sponsoring a spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child (provided that the dependent child does not have dependent children of their own) [R130(2)].

Sponsors who maintain a principal residence in Canada are not considered to be in violation of residency requirements if they:

• take short holidays or business trips outside Canada on a temporary basis
• have work arrangements that require them to be outside Canada for temporary finite periods of time, but return to live in Canada in between assignments (such as ship crew or seasonal workers)

Persons who do not maintain a principal residence in Canada and who live and work abroad and only return to Canada for short visits are not considered to meet residency requirements."

You can read and interpret that as you wish. There is no specific definition here of short holidays nor of how precisely they will define "residency." (There are basically two implied hard definitions - "not considered to be in violation of residency requirements" and "not considered to meet residency requirements" - with grey area between them, which is where officers may make an assessment.)

If you're willing to take the risk and/or assess the risk to be low, that's your decision.



They must make an assessment according to the same regs and decide; they certainly can decide to reject on the basis of that assessment. I'm not even clear that they are required to provide a procedural fairness letter (I dont' believe so but not certain), i.e. a sponsor may not have the ability to 'explain' or justify.

Tax payer status or PR status alone are clearly not sufficient - as the regs clearly state, a PR residing abroad is not eligible. (And I'll repeat: there is no clear definition of how 'residing abroad' will be defined or treated, apart from those who maintain principal residence are allowed 'short trips' - which clearly implies that 'long trips' may be treated as not within the intended scope.).

I'd note: you seem confident that you can 'challenge the decision.' Perhaps. Even if an appeal process is allowed (not clear to me), if that is the only reason for refusal, an appeal would likely be far more time consuming and costly than simply re-applying (once back in Canada). (Anyone who has looked at the spouse appeal threads would know the process is long and unpleasant - especially long).

Again, not trying to scare you, just inform you: it's your decision. It's clear enforcement of this is uneven at best - no better info than that is available. If you think two months is fine, that's your call.

Good luck and sorry you've been apart from your spouse and child.

I didn't want to challenge your point. Its just as I said, I have seen multiple examples on forums of positive than negative. Now If I get a confirmation on this as a response to a webform query on my application, People say that you can't rely on helpdesk response. But they are authorized to give out information that is approved by IRCC. Then what else you can rely on?

 

[canuck78]

I didn't want to challenge your point. Its just as I said, I have seen multiple examples on forums of positive than negative. Now If I get a confirmation on this as a response to a webform query on my application, People say that you can't rely on helpdesk response. But they are authorized to give out information that is approved by IRCC. Then what else you can rely on?

Many posts have said a short vacation of 2-3 weeks seem to be fine but many are planning on remaking abroad for longer.

 

[armoured]

I didn't want to challenge your point. Its just as I said, I have seen multiple examples on forums of positive than negative. Now If I get a confirmation on this as a response to a webform query on my application, People say that you can't rely on helpdesk response. But they are authorized to give out information that is approved by IRCC. Then what else you can rely on?

Why don't we discuss the webform response when you get it, in writing, rather than as hypothetical?

 

[bishcan]

Why don't we discuss the webform response when you get it, in writing, rather than as hypothetical?

Its not a hypothetical thing. People has got this info from support centers in past. But then they are always being warned by people on these forums to not take support staff seriously. Thats what I asked, What else can one rely on. Anyways I will try that when its time and let you guys know the response.