Visa refusal

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

Hello,

I have applied for a temporary resident visa to Canada, and I received a negative answer.
Knowing that I am a 26 years old Female Egyptian Dentist working in Saudi Arabia for a year and a half now and applying from Saudi Arabia, not my home country. I am going for a 1-month visit in Montreal and Alberta. My purpose is to take my American National Dental Boards Exam and the rest of the month is to visit some cool places.

They refused my application on the following grounds:
I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on:

• Your travel history. (I have traveled once to the USA and stayed there for 4 months and still have my multiple entries valid visa - and also to Saudi Arabia by work visa and still working - I think this is good enough)

• Your Immigration status. (I already have a valid US visa if I don't want to live in my home country or I don't want to work in Saudi Arabia then why I am spending my money on the application now? rather than going to the US and completing my exams and life together.
I just want to spend one week taking my test and 3 weeks visiting many provinces and enjoying the tourist attractions there with my friends)

• The purpose of your visit. (I am going to take the National Board of Dental Examinations which is some test relative to the USA, not Canada, So How come they charge me on that??)

• The limited employment prospects in your country of residence. (I didn't understand this one!!)

• Your current employment situation. (I haven't provided a copy of my contract to show them that I still have a year left on my contract and also to show them that this contract is renewable! Could that be a reason they didn't understand my whole situation?)

Knowing that I gave them these documents:

1. Exit - Rentry visa from saudi Arabia
2. Bank Statement with 10000 CAD
3. Round trip Paid and Confirmed Ticket to Canada
4. 2 weeks Hotel booking in Montreal and 2 in Alberta (not paid but confirmed)
5. Employee Verification letter (but not including my contract period)
6. Commited and Paid Test Registeration in a test center located in QC

My question is:
* If I want to apply again, What documents exactly I must Improve??
* Also can I write a letter and attach it to the documents provided, to explain my situation??


Thank you for the help.

 

[bellaluna]

• Your travel history. (I have traveled once to the USA and stayed there for 4 months and still have my multiple entries valid visa - and also to Saudi Arabia by work visa and still working - I think this is good enough)

Contrary to how you interpreted this, IMO, your sole 4-month stay in the US instead worked against you. What reason did you give for spending 4 months in the US? Your work in Saudi Arabia does not count as travel history and is explained in the next reason:

• Your Immigration status. (I already have a valid US visa if I don't want to live in my home country or I don't want to work in Saudi Arabia then why I am spending my money on the application now? rather than going to US and completing my exams and life together.
I just want to spend one week taking my test and 3 weeks visiting many provinces and enjoying the tourist attractions there with my friends)

Just my personal observations, based on the cases on this forum, getting a Canadian TRV is generally harder for applicants who work away from their home countries. I think, in Canada's perspective, you're more likely to want to settle in Canada.

• The purpose of your visit. (I am going to take the National Board of Dental Examinations which is some test relative to the USA, not Canada, So How come they charge me on that??)

This is a generic reason for refusal. Anyway, you've since established that you intend to settle in North America by taking this test.

• The limited employment prospects in your country of residence. (I didn't understand this one!!)

They think dentistry is not a lucrative profession for you in Saudi Arabia.

• Your current employment situation. (I haven't provided a copy of my contract to show them that I still have a year left on my contract and also to show them that this contract is renewable! Could that be a reason they didn't understand my whole situation?)

Possibly, but they probably are also aware that your profession is contract-based.

Knowing that I gave them these documents:

1. Exit - Rentry visa from saudi Arabia
2. Bank Statement with 10000 CAD
3. Round trip Paid and Confirmed Ticket
4. 2 weeks Hotel booking in Montreal and 2 in Alberta (not paid but confirmed)
5. Employee Verification letter (but not including my contract period)

My question is:
* If I want to apply again, What documents exactly I must Improve??
* Also can I write a letter and attach it to the documents provided, to explain my situation??


Thank you for the help.

I don't mean to rub salt in the wounds, but this was a poorly prepared application. For a Canada TRV application, paid round-trip tickets and hotel bookings mean nothing.
Was that a round-trip paid and confirmed ticket to the US, or to Canada?
Did you show any proof that you're registered for this exam? I'm confused, are you taking this exam in the US, or in Canada? I'm not sure, but if you try to establish perhaps that you have a legitimate and clear plan to practice in the US, and not in Canada, that might help prove you intend to leave Canada.

 

[shannon388]

You can order the GCSM notes to know more about why you were given a negative decision

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

Dear bellaluna thank you so much for your response,

Contrary to how you interpreted this, IMO, your sole 4-month stay in the US instead worked against you. What reason did you give for spending 4 months in the US? Your work in Saudi Arabia does not count as travel history and is explained in the next reason:

My four months stay in the US was because I wanted to give the 2 parts of my test in one shot, but unfortunately, I passed part 1 and failed the part 2 test.
Also, I have Volunteered in a dental office and I have the dentist's letter of recommendation including the whole period of my stay.
If I provided my pass and fail result and the LOR, Would that help them to understand???

This is a generic reason for refusal. Anyway, you've since established that you intend to settle in North America by taking this test.

I don't do anything Illegal. If I want to stay in Canada I would have taken the Canadian Board in the first place.I am still confused about this point.
and I have no idea how to make them believe me!.

Possibly, but they probably are also aware that your profession is contract-based.

Do you think providing a copy of a renewable contract will not add anything???

Was that a round-trip paid and confirmed ticket to the US, or to Canada?

to Canada

Did you show any proof that you're registered for this exam? I'm confused, are you taking this exam in the US, or in Canada?

Yes, I have provided a committed registration document, paid and confirmed document, in a test center in QC, Canada.
(but I made a huge mistake here, I was in a rush so I didn't change the home address provided by the American Dental Association;
Which was in the US -because I have taken this test before during my first 4 months visit to the US and the association saves our information as it is-.
So here comes another conflict for them; they found on my test booking a home address that is in US and not in Saudi Arabia.
Do you think this is a big deal???
Do you think if I changed and corrected it to my home address in Saudi Arabia, This will help me???)


Also, Do you think I can write a letter and attach it to the documents provided, to explain myself and my situation?

Thanks again for the help

 

[Bryanna]

• The purpose of your visit. (I am going to take the National Board of Dental Examinations which is some test relative to the USA, not Canada, So How come they charge me on that??)

Three points in addition to the ones detailed by bellaluna:
Point 1:
Why did you not register to take the exam in the US? You already have a US B1/B2 visa which makes it easy for you to take the exam in the US. Generally, students look to Canada only after their US visas are rejected.

Your valid US B1/B2 visa is probably why the IRCC visa officer is not convinced that you are a genuine, short-term visitor to Canada.


Point 2:
As you stayed for four months in the US to take both parts of the exam, you could stay in Canada for a similar duration = Your itinerary and holiday plans in Montreal/Alberta are irrelevant


Point 3:
Did your employer approve your leave? If yes, did you include any document for this? A vacation of 1-months indicates a weak employment situation or someone else can manage your work responsibilities + your finances may not cover the cost of a 1-month holiday as well as airfare

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

Dear Bryanna thank you so much for your replies

Point 1:
Why did you not register to take the exam in the US? You already have a US B1/B2 visa which makes it easy for you to take the exam in the US. Generally, students look to Canada only after their US visas are rejected.

Your valid US B1/B2 visa is probably why the IRCC visa officer is not convinced that you are a genuine, short-term visitor to Canada.

Honestly, my family doesn't give me the option of settling in a place that's far away from home.
So if I have a test and that test includes 3 parts and they allow me to take it in 3 different countries, I will choose to take one part in the US, one in Canada and One in Japan.
Yeah as long as I am traveling for fun and exploring new places so Why not?!

Point 2:
As you stayed for four months in the US to take both parts of the exam, you could stay in Canada for a similar duration = Your itinerary and holiday plans in Montreal/Alberta are irrelevant

No, I can't, I have a stable job in Saudi Arabia and If I break my contract, I will be blocked from entering Saudi Arabia forever. And moreover, I will lose all my dues at work including the LOR, Annual reward and end contract reward.

Point 3:
Did your employer approve your leave? If yes, did you include any document for this? A vacation of 1-months indicates a weak employment situation or someone else can manage your work responsibilities + your finances may not cover the cost of a 1-month holiday as well as airfare

providing that I have worked for 18 months, 6 days a week 8 hrs a day.
So eventually, I will deserve a vacation and it's written on my contract; 21 days vacation annually.
my employer allowed me to take extra 7 days to the weekend so it became 30.


I am abit desperate here Bryanne because all of the three points I have no control on and I can't change them,

So Do you know if I can write a letter and explain myself and attach it to my presented documents???

Thanks for the help

 

[bellaluna]

Hi Omnia, you are right, you are not doing anything illegal, but to visa officers, it's generally frowned upon. Your movement isn't typical of a profile that gets approved for a Canadian TRV...there's nothing wrong in wanting "fun", but try to look at your case from an officer's perspective. Their goal is to make sure that whomever they grant a TRV to doesn't try to settle in Canada.

My four months stay in the US was because I wanted to give the 2 parts of my test in one shot, but unfortunately, I passed part 1 and failed the part 2 test.
Also, I have Volunteered in a dental office and I have the dentist's letter of recommendation including the whole period of my stay.
If I provided my pass and fail result and the LOR, Would that help them to understand???

I am not sure about this, to be honest.... Maybe it will give some context, but I am not sure, because your case isn't typical, like I said. I am just careful about that volunteer experience, if it was allowed on the type of visa you had in the US.

Do you think providing a copy of a renewable contract will not add anything???

They already said that they're not convinced that you would continue to work in Saudi Arabia as a dentist, and you are obviously making moves to practice in the US...that's why I don't think it would help. It's just my opinion, but you can try if you feel it will.

Do you think if I changed and corrected it to my home address in Saudi Arabia, This will help me???

)

You can try, but I think it matters little.

Also, Do you think I can write a letter and attach it to the documents provided, to explain myself and my situation?

Again, you can try, but no guarantees.

No, I can't, I have a stable job in Saudi Arabia and If I break my contract, I will be blocked from entering Saudi Arabia forever. And moreover, I will lose all my dues at work including the LOR, Annual reward and end contract reward.

You can try explaining this.

Very difficult case, to be honest. It might help to order the officer's case notes, as suggested earlier, but it will take 30 days.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/transparency/access-information-privacy/requests-information-act.html

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

If I got an invitation letter from one of my family friends who happens to be a retired university professor... will that help or make things complicated???

 

[bellaluna]

If I got an invitation letter from one of my family friends who happens to be a retired university professor... will that help or make things complicated???

Invitation letters are only supplementary. It's less about your reasons for being in Canada than it actually is about your reasons to leave Canada at the end of your stay.

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

Invitation letters are only supplementary. It's less about your reasons for being in Canada than it actually is about your reasons to leave Canada at the end of your stay.

so I can understand that you mean It'll be more supportive in my situation???

 

[Wonderland_1010]

so I can understand that you mean It'll be more supportive in my situation???

No it means it won't help to persuade to CIC that you will leave Canada. Invitation letter is more for the purpose of why you want to visit Canada but in the end of it all, you still have to prove that you will return home.

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

I will post now the personal letter I am writing to the embassy so you guys put your comments and help me on it

Dear Visa Officer,


I can understand your concerns about my application and I want to thank you for showing me the reasons why my TRV got refused.


I am attaching this Personal letter to respond to these concerns and explain my situation since I cannot change a lot in it by the current time.


According to your first concern about my Travel History;

I can understand that 3 months and 15 days in the US was a big duration for a visit, but by this time I was a fresh graduate, without a stable job, and without any postgraduate study. I only got weak job offers then.

So I decided to take the NBDE to improve my employment situation in my home country since it's a decent certificate in my country and fun way to start traveling and see a new culture.

I decided also to do the 2 parts of that test beside the TOEFL test all in one visit; to save myself the time and my family the cost of two consecutive trips.

By explaining this, I confirm that I will leave Canada by the end of my visit because:

1. I have now a stable job which I am very satisfied with its specifications.

2.Unlike the first time in the US; there's only one part left of my boards and that's what I am going to take, so I will have no reason to stay more than the period of my visit after finishing my test.

(I attached a copy of my test results.)


According to your second concern about my Immigration status;

It's true I am not resident in my home country but that doesn't mean I have no ties.

My sponsor has provided me with an Exit Reentry Visa and I am fully aware of the risk of being blocked from Saudi Arabia if a resident broke his Exit Reentry Visa.

Also the main purpose of my work in Saudi Arabia is to finance my dental office which I am establishing in Egypt right now.

But beside that I am taking the advantage that Saudi Arabia is only 2 hrs. away from Egypt and my family can always visit me anytime because I am not planning to lose my home ties also.

By explaining this I confirm that I will leave Canada at the end of my visit because:

I am not planning to expose myself to legal issues in Saudi Arabia by breaking my Exit Reentry Visa.



According to your third concern about the purpose of my visit;

Taking the NBDE means nothing to the Canadian Dental Association, if I want to settle in Canada, I would have taken the Canadian Dental Board's tests in the first place. This is something more beneficial for a dentist who doesn't want to leave Canada or wants to get admitted to any Canadian University for a licensing purpose.



Also, I know there is a conflict shown on my Prometric committed registration paper because they set my home address and phone number to the US, but when I contacted them for modifying this address to my actual home address now in Saudi Arabia, they refused and said that ADA is not sending candidates' information anymore to the Prometric test centers and that was the genuine reason why the Prometric used my old address, the one I set in first time I was taking these tests in US.


Also, I want to explain that my visit to Canada is only because the ADA gave us the option to take that test in the US and Canada, if they gave us the options to take the tests in the US and Japan, I will make my second visit in Japan because there is no reason to miss the chance to visit a new country on the map while you are improving your education level in the same time.

By saying this I confirm that I will leave Canada at the end of my visit because:

- I am taking a test relative to the US not Canada and my purpose is only to take the advantage of visiting new tourist attractions while I am already paying the money for my test.

- I am not planning to settle in North America so as long as I am paying money for my tests I will make sure I can accompany that with a new place and a new adventure every time I take a test.




According to your forth concern about the limited employment prospects in my country of residence;

I can tell we have limited employment prospects, especially when talking about financial prospects and comparing it to North America. But to some people, family ties and feeling at home means the world.

And by considering that I have now a stable job with a very satisfying salary coming along with being geographically close to my home country and my family, I can consider that as the best option for the current time.

By saying this I confirm that I will leave Canada at the end of my visit because:

If I want to move to North America, I already had the chance when I was in the US before but I didn’t, I chose to go back to my home country.



According to your fifth concern about my current employment situation.


It was my fault that I didn't provide any information about my contract in Saudi Arabia and its conditions. But I attached this time a translated copy of it, so I can clear my situation here.

First, my contract will not be finished before February 2019 which means I will expose myself again to legal issues if I finished it by myself.

Second, my contract states that by working for 6 days a week and 8 hrs. a day for one year, I deserve a 21 days’ paid vacation annually and 12 days paid vacation as a reward after finishing my contract and that was the reason my employer allowed me to take one month off without replacing me.

Third, my contract is renewable.

Forth, by ending that contact before its time I am losing Letter of Recommendation provided by my employer stating that I spent 2 years of my life working in Saudi Arabia as a good dentist. Also I am losing all my financial dues which include a big amount of money that I am not planning to leave behind.

By saying this I confirm that I will leave Canada at the end of my visit because:

I am not planning to lose my reputation and financial dues.

 

[Bryanna]

I will post now the personal letter I am writing to the embassy so you guys put your comments and help me on it

You seem to be missing the key points:
1. As you have a valid US visa + you had previously taken the exams in the US, there's nothing stopping you from re-taking the exam in the US again.

2. Also, as you stayed for four months on your previous visit, I assume you have family/friends in the US, whereas you would be a tourist in Canada (no family/friends)

3. IMO, the funds you have indicated for a 1-month visit are inadequate if airfare is also factored in + you are completely on your own (Read: Tourist with no family/friends to offset some of the expenses/accommodation)


To have any chances of a TRV approval, you would need to prove why you are unable to/why you don't want to take the test in the US + you would need to prove that you will not stay for approx. four months like you did the previous time. All other documents would then follow based on these facts

 

[Bryanna]

I recommend you do not send this personal letter if you decide to reapply. IMO, there are a number of points which the visa officer will not buy. Here:

So I decided to take the NBDE to improve my employment situation in my home country since it's a decent certificate in my country [and fun way to start traveling and see a new culture.

Not true. NDBE is a licensing exam to practice in the US. It is not intended for dental practice in other countries.

I decided also to do the 2 parts of that test beside the TOEFL test all in one visit; to save myself the time and my family the cost of two consecutive trips.

Why TOEFL?

Also the main purpose of my work in Saudi Arabia is to finance my dental office which I am establishing in Egypt right now.

Future plans that are on the very distant horizon won't matter.

But beside that I am taking the advantage that Saudi Arabia is only 2 hrs. away from Egypt and my family can always visit me anytime because I am not planning to lose my home ties also.

Home ties are the ties that you have to Egypt. Your family wanting to visit you in KSA would not imply that you are maintaining your home ties. On the contrary, it implies that you do not want to return to Egypt even for short visits.

According to your third concern about the purpose of my visit;

Taking the NBDE means nothing to the Canadian Dental Association, if I want to settle in Canada, I would have taken the Canadian Dental Board's tests in the first place. This is something more beneficial for a dentist who doesn't want to leave Canada or wants to get admitted to any Canadian University for a licensing purpose.

Leave aside Canada, the NDBE exams indicate a clear intent to move to the US.

Also,

I want to explain that my visit to Canada is only because the ADA gave us the option to take that test in the US and Canada, if they gave us the options to take the tests in the US and Japan, I will make my second visit in Japan because there is no reason to miss the chance to visit a new country on the map while you are improving your education level in the same time.

Are you sure you can take the NDBE exam in Japan? I don't think you can.

And by considering that I have now a stable job with a very satisfying salary coming along with being geographically close to my home country and my family, I can consider that as the best option for the current time.

Unfortunately, the visa officer believes your employment/economic situation is not attractive/motivating for you to return to KSA. That's why the refusal reasons for these two grounds

 

[Omnia Abdelrahman]

I assume you have family/friends in the US, whereas you would be a tourist in Canada (no family/friends)

Hi Bryanna,
no family in the US only friends and not that close at all I haven't even stayed at their place for one day!
I have also that kind of friends in Canada

IMO, the funds you have indicated for a 1-month visit are inadequate if airfare is also factored in + you are completely on your own (Read: Tourist with no family/friends to offset some of the expenses/accommodation)

they didn't mention the funds in the rejection letter I have provided 10000 CAD, and my airfare is already paid

why you don't want to take the test in the US

As a person who now has the money to fund herself, I want to see a new place that's cheerful more than the US, honestly I didn't have so much fun in the US, I didn't feel like a tourist, American people are a bit dry and stressed out about work and money.
When I searched for Canada I only found kind people who are so cheerful and I have found out that nature and the sightseeing resemble paradise on earth so this is the only reason I want to visit Canada this time. Just for having the fun part I missed last time in US.
As I am always saying, I am an Arab young girl, our families don't let us go away easily, I have so many family restrictions regarding settling that away from my family.
I know I am now in Saudi Arabia but my family can always pass by unlike North America.
So I am not taking this boards seriously for settling in the US. If I got accepted into residency then it's fine, If not I will continue my work in Saudi Arabia as I am. I am not stressing myself for the license part.

you would need to prove that you will not stay for approx. four months like you did the previous time.

No more tests after the one I am taking and I have a job waiting for me!

Not true. NDBE is a licensing exam to practice in the US. It is not intended for dental practice in other countries.

you are right, but it gave my cv a huge boost that when I got back to Egypt that I got accepted in a decent job in Saudi Arabia.
Arab countries love and respect American certificates!
To be frank Yes, it started with the willingness to take the US license, but after visiting the US, it's not a big deal anymore.

Are you sure you can take the NDBE exam in Japan? I don't think you can.

I used that as a metaphor, Should I remove it?

I assume you have family/friends in the US, whereas you would be a tourist in Canada (no family/friends)

Hi Bryanna,
no family in the US only friends and not that close at all I haven't even stayed at their place for one day!
I have also that kind of friends in Canada

IMO, the funds you have indicated for a 1-month visit are inadequate if airfare is also factored in + you are completely on your own (Read: Tourist with no family/friends to offset some of the expenses/accommodation)

they didn't mention the funds in the rejection letter I have provided 10000 CAD, and my airfare is already paid

why you don't want to take the test in the US

As a person who now has the money to fund herself, I want to see a new place that's cheerful more than the US, honestly I didn't have so much fun in the US, I didn't feel like a tourist, American people are a bit dry and stressed out about work and money.
When I searched for Canada I only found kind people who are so cheerful and I have found out that nature and the sightseeing resemble paradise on earth so this is the only reason I want to visit Canada this time. Just for having the fun part I missed last time in US.
As I am always saying, I am an Arab young girl, our families don't let us go away easily, I have so many family restrictions regarding settling that away from my family.
I know I am now in Saudi Arabia but my family can always pass by unlike North America.
So I am not taking this boards seriously for settling in the US. If I got accepted into residency then it's fine, If not I will continue my work in Saudi Arabia as I am. I am not stressing myself for the license part.

you would need to prove that you will not stay for approx. four months like you did the previous time.

No more tests after the one I am taking and I have a job waiting for me!

Not true. NDBE is a licensing exam to practice in the US. It is not intended for dental practice in other countries.

you are right, but it gave my cv a huge boost that when I got back to Egypt that I got accepted in a decent job in Saudi Arabia.
Arab countries love and respect American certificates!
To be frank Yes, it started with the willingness to take the US license, but after visiting the US, it's not a big deal anymore.

Are you sure you can take the NDBE exam in Japan? I don't think you can.

I used that as a metaphor, Should I remove it?

I recommend you do not send this personal letter if you decide to reapply

Yes, I will reapply because I have paid my airplane ticket and it's also hard to change the test location to the US and find a test center in a suitable state in that time of the year, everyone is on vacation in July and test centers are crowded with test takers. =(

Do you mean here I should not present a personal letter at all or I can modify this one and reform it to be in my favor????????