US vs. Canada.... Green Card vs. Citizenship, a weird request from judge!

[Dreamlandvisa]

This staggered "coming into force" is a real pain.. Wish they'd just gone for broke and done it all immediately on passing the Bill into Law. It would save having to remember individual sections.

Here is what it reads on the Bill C-24:

(1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(c.1) and 11(1)(e), the person’s intention must be continuous from the date of his or her application until they have taken the oath of citizenship.

doesn't this clause exempt my friend the CJ's requirement you think?

 

[zardoz]

Here is what it reads on the Bill C-24:

(1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(c.1) and 11(1)(e), the person's intention must be continuous from the date of his or her application until they have taken the oath of citizenship.

doesn't this clause exempt my friend the CJ's requirement you think?

Personally, based on MY interpretation of the legislation, no. However, as that clause is not currently "in force", it shouldn't have been applied anyway.

 

[Mary2009]

(1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(c.1) and 11(1)(e), the person's intention must be continuous from the date of his or her application until they have taken the oath of citizenship.

I hope this is not off topic, but I have a question

If someone apply for citizenship BEFORE this clause become in force...
Can he travel for short trips AFTER the citizenship has been submitted?
(may be like 10-15 days per year until he's granted citizenship).

Thanks for your inputs,

Mary

 

[applicant314]

Yes. I even asked the officer conducting the interview and about 5 call-centre agents: They all said that travelling or even working(!) outside of Canada does not affect the outcome of the citizenship process. You just have to watch that you notify CIC in case you are unavailable to attend one of the meetings they schedule, and that you still meet the PR requirement (2/5 years)

 

[samay23]

I would hope that the CIC official (I've never heard of a judge being there for the test/interview unless it was a special process/accommodation) provided something in writing.

Have you seen it? The quote provided seems off. The "US government" cannot provide documents attesting to the applicant's intentions. Unless the CIC official/judge was asking for a copy of the green card application because they wanted to see if the applicant had declared an intention to live in the US?

As transcribed above though, this seems very muddled. We need more details. It would be important to know the exact wording in order to properly judge the way forward.

Also, your friend should probably speak to a lawyer.

Hi eileenf,
Something similar happened with me. I have a non cancelled Us visa in my passport. The visa was cancelled by employer after I left the states but was no cancel stamp in visa page in passport. I cam to Canada by car and never returned to the US.They requested me to bring a proof "letter" from the US government stating the date my visa was cancelled??? I don't know what to do about this!!!

Finally, where was this left? Does the applicant need to report back to the CIC with some documentation within a certain span of time?

 

[zardoz]

OK, I'm going to start my day with a small rant, as I'm getting frustrated with this whole "intent to reside" issue.
You can choose to ignore it, or not, as you wish.

The "intent to reside" clause is written in plain, simple, legal English. As a relatively old, native English speaker, I don't have any confusion regarding the meaning or purpose of the wording. It's not at all complex in my opinion. It was written by people who are skilled in writing legislation and almost certainly not by the minister.

It says, completely paraphrased, the following.

When you apply for citizenship you must intend to make Canada your future home. You must continue to intend to make Canada your future home all the time that your application is being processed.

You must not be planning to get your passport "just for convenience" and then abandon Canada as soon as you get it.

It doesn't say that you cannot, in good faith, change your mind after you are granted citizenship. It doesn't say that you cannot travel while waiting for your application to be approved. In fact, it doesn't say a lot of things.

It was included in the legislation as a direct backlash against those that came to Canada with the intention of using the Canadian citizenship and passport as a "safety net" while they carried on life as normal back in some other part of the world, having no intention of making Canada their home.

It provides a legal framework for the refusal to grant citizenship if CIC reasonably believes that the applicant intends to "cut and run". It also provides a legal framework for revocation on the basis of misrepresentation if CIC later discovers that while the application is in process, the applicant is actively seeking a foreign visa or permanent residency elsewhere, having lied on the application declaration. This framework is not currently available to CIC in the existing legislation.

It is for this reason that those applicants are being asked to cancel foreign visas and give up permanent residency of other countries before being granted Canadian citizenship. If they refuse, it's evidence to the CJ and CIC that they intend to abandon Canada as soon as they get the passport, and therefore do not "intend to reside".

Rant over. Have a good day.

PS. I have reposted this as a new thread at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/intent-to-reside-my-understanding-t257093.0.html Please make any responses there, not here.

 

[eileenf]

Hi eileenf,
Something similar happened with me. I have a non cancelled Us visa in my passport. The visa was cancelled by employer after I left the states but was no cancel stamp in visa page in passport. I cam to Canada by car and never returned to the US.They requested me to bring a proof "letter" from the US government stating the date my visa was cancelled??? I don't know what to do about this!!!

Samay, your situation seems clear. You should provide the CIC what they clearly asked for: proof that the visa is cancelled. The CIC has no way of knowing when and if the visa was cancelled from your passport or the other information you gave them in your application.

So, contact whichever agency you contacted to get the visa (the State Dept or the Embassy) and ask for a letter stating that 1. it has been cancelled and 2. what date it was cancelled on.

 

[samay23]

Thanks eileenf, Absolutely I want to give them what ever they need to facilitate the process and make it easy. I have nothing to hid as I live in Canada and never went back to the US. I was not able to get them such a letter. The government will not issue these kind of letters. Instead I've submitted the US boarder crossing report issued by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection do you think that will work. The thing is that I will not know until months goes by for them to see and read the report. I am afraid after 7-10 months they come back and ask for the letter again.

 

[ingegarcia]

You should probably call CIC and ask them if that document is enough so you do not have to wait months to know that

Thanks eileenf, Absolutely I want to give them what ever they need to facilitate the process and make it easy. I have nothing to hid as I live in Canada and never went back to the US. I was not able to get them such a letter. The government will not issue these kind of letters. Instead I've submitted the US boarder crossing report issued by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection do you think that will work. The thing is that I will not know until months goes by for them to see and read the report. I am afraid after 7-10 months they come back and ask for the letter again.

 

[eileenf]

If such a letter is impossible to get, you should send proof to CIC that 1. the requested document does not exist and 2. who you've contacted and how you've learned that it does not exist. And explain what proof you're sending instead in your cover letter.

It's a good idea to show that you've done your due diligence. I know that it's hard and frustrating to have to navigate bureaucracies, but you have an advantage from many because you know specifically what information CIC wants from you in order to approve your application.

While an i-94 might help, they're not foolproof records. Ideally you could find something more conclusive regarding the cancelled visa. Don't wait until you hear back from CIC regarding the i94 report. Now is your chance to send the relevant info and documentation and in order to avoid future problems and further delays. (In my experience, the further along you get with CIC still saying "not enough proof", the longer the delays and more onerous the requests.)

Off the top of my head, the US embassy, USCIS customer service or a FOIA request might be options for the documentation you are seeking.

But probably the best place to start is your memory and your former employer. You say that your work cancelled the visa, but how do you know? How did you learn that? Does your work have any documentation of the cancelled visa? You need to follow that back and find the proof somewhere in there.

When you contact former employers or USCIS, etc. keep notes: Who did you talk to? What date did you call? What time? What did they say? Cite these details if you can't find the appropriate documentation and can only find the i94.

 

[us2yow]

samay23,

I was wondering if they are explicitly looking for the "Cancelled Without Prejudice" stamp on the visa. But again, I am guessing (not 100% sure) that the CWP stamp would be affixed on a cancelled visa ONLY IF you submitted a new application for a visa renewal of some sort.

So are they in fact looking for a CWP stamp when they shouldn't be ?

Logically, if your US visa expired at the time they reviewed your passport (and it did not have a CWP stamp) then it means VISUALLY and LEGALLY that it has expired based on the expiration date on the visa. Also, it DOES NOT have a CWP stamp because you never again applied for any US visa.

HOWEVER, If your US visa was valid when they reviewed your passport, it could still be used at that moment in time (and until it expired) to enter the US and since it had no CWP stamp (since I am assuming did not get a new visa) the only proof could be (?) from your old US work place saying something on the lines of you ..."so and so obtained that visa when they were working with them and they stopped working with them on xx date and so it follows that ALTHOUGH it was not formally cancelled (which would ONLY have happened had you produced your PP with a new visa applcn), there would not have been a chance to put a CWP stamp on it given the scenario and only a letter from your old work place would confirm that you stopped working for them on xx date etc...

Hope I am making some sense...

 

[RussCan]

OK, I'm going to start my day with a small rant, as I'm getting frustrated with this whole "intent to reside" issue.
You can choose to ignore it, or not, as you wish.

The "intent to reside" clause is written in plain, simple, legal English. As a relatively old, native English speaker, I don't have any confusion regarding the meaning or purpose of the wording. It's not at all complex in my opinion. It was written by people who are skilled in writing legislation and almost certainly not by the minister.

It says, completely paraphrased, the following.

When you apply for citizenship you must intend to make Canada your future home. You must continue to intend to make Canada your future home all the time that your application is being processed.

You must not be planning to get your passport "just for convenience" and then abandon Canada as soon as you get it.

It doesn't say that you cannot, in good faith, change your mind after you are granted citizenship. It doesn't say that you cannot travel while waiting for your application to be approved. In fact, it doesn't say a lot of things.

It was included in the legislation as a direct backlash against those that came to Canada with the intention of using the Canadian citizenship and passport as a "safety net" while they carried on life as normal back in some other part of the world, having no intention of making Canada their home.

It provides a legal framework for the refusal to grant citizenship if CIC reasonably believes that the applicant intends to "cut and run". It also provides a legal framework for revocation on the basis of misrepresentation if CIC later discovers that while the application is in process, the applicant is actively seeking a foreign visa or permanent residency elsewhere, having lied on the application declaration. This framework is not currently available to CIC in the existing legislation.

It is for this reason that those applicants are being asked to cancel foreign visas and give up permanent residency of other countries before being granted Canadian citizenship. If they refuse, it's evidence to the CJ and CIC that they intend to abandon Canada as soon as they get the passport, and therefore do not "intend to reside".

Rant over. Have a good day.

PS. I have reposted this as a new thread at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/intent-to-reside-my-understanding-t257093.0.html Please make any responses there, not here.

The clause states: "if granted citizenship, the applicant intends to reside in Canada...." You have to conceed that the only plainness and clearness it bears pertaines to the obvious and tacit intention of the CIC to bind the requirement to live in Canada upon the applicant. If the CIC only intention was, as was stated at various hearings by the Minister, to insure the applicant was to confirm his/her intention to reside in Canada until the moment the citizenship has been granted, then what was the point of the future tense in the clause?

 

[CanadianCountry]

The same was asked in Senate hearings from the Minister, why the future tense.

But the minister replied as he reads it means only till the oath, as the charter rights applies to all.

Now I don't understand, is lying ok in these Senate hearings?

OK, I'm going to start my day with a small rant, as I'm getting frustrated with this whole "intent to reside" issue.
You can choose to ignore it, or not, as you wish.

The "intent to reside" clause is written in plain, simple, legal English. As a relatively old, native English speaker, I don't have any confusion regarding the meaning or purpose of the wording. It's not at all complex in my opinion. It was written by people who are skilled in writing legislation and almost certainly not by the minister.

It says, completely paraphrased, the following.

When you apply for citizenship you must intend to make Canada your future home. You must continue to intend to make Canada your future home all the time that your application is being processed.

You must not be planning to get your passport "just for convenience" and then abandon Canada as soon as you get it.

It doesn't say that you cannot, in good faith, change your mind after you are granted citizenship. It doesn't say that you cannot travel while waiting for your application to be approved. In fact, it doesn't say a lot of things.

It was included in the legislation as a direct backlash against those that came to Canada with the intention of using the Canadian citizenship and passport as a "safety net" while they carried on life as normal back in some other part of the world, having no intention of making Canada their home.

It provides a legal framework for the refusal to grant citizenship if CIC reasonably believes that the applicant intends to "cut and run". It also provides a legal framework for revocation on the basis of misrepresentation if CIC later discovers that while the application is in process, the applicant is actively seeking a foreign visa or permanent residency elsewhere, having lied on the application declaration. This framework is not currently available to CIC in the existing legislation.

It is for this reason that those applicants are being asked to cancel foreign visas and give up permanent residency of other countries before being granted Canadian citizenship. If they refuse, it's evidence to the CJ and CIC that they intend to abandon Canada as soon as they get the passport, and therefore do not "intend to reside".

Rant over. Have a good day.

PS. I have reposted this as a new thread at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/intent-to-reside-my-understanding-t257093.0.html Please make any responses there, not here.

The clause states: "if granted citizenship, the applicant intends to reside in Canada...." You have to conceed that the only plainness and clearness it bears pertaines to the obvious and tacit intention of the CIC to bind the requirement to live in Canada upon the applicant. If the CIC only intention was, as was stated at various hearings by the Minister, to insure the applicant was to confirm his/her intention to reside in Canada until the moment the citizenship has been granted, then what was the point of the future tense in the clause?

 

[keesio]

I hope this is not off topic, but I have a question

If someone apply for citizenship BEFORE this clause become in force...
Can he travel for short trips AFTER the citizenship has been submitted?
(may be like 10-15 days per year until he's granted citizenship).

Thanks for your inputs,

Mary

That is no problem at all.

 

[henrymoore]

This RQ request post application doesn't seem to mean much. It is like enforcement of intent to reside without any law backing the action on the part of CIC. Since as per current law there is nothing in law stating where the residency of an applicant must be post application.

But as per C -24, the residency upto the oath is in question.

I do respect the CJ approach to implement the spirit of law ,,,, however I believe that the spirit of law should be enforced in other aspects like processing the applications in an efficient timeline for instance!!!!! I have passed my citizenship test and provided ALL necessary docs at the end of July and still waiting for my oath invitation letter!!!!! I have spent more than 4 years in Canada, my kids are in canadian school and my wife is residing with me since 3 years... but still I have to painfully wait for my letter without even knowing the reason for this delay!!!!!!!!!!