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UNIQUE LANDING SITUATION - PLEASE ADVISE

dave1134

Newbie
Apr 1, 2015
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Hello,

My husband received his COPR and is planning on moving to Canada in August from the UK. However, he is coming to visit for a family event at the end of this month (May) for two weeks. After this event, he is returning home early June to live in the UK until he moves over completely in August.

My question is: Should he bring his documentation and land as a PR now? Or should he wait until August? While looking on posts on this forum about this question I came across someone stating "You will have to pretend at the airport that you're moving to Canada. I've heard of someone in this forum being cancelled their PR visa (I can't find you a link right now, but maybe you can have a look) when they told the officer they'd be returning to the country within the month."

How true is this comment? I would like to believe that being honest and explaining the situation would not make them take the PR away.

Thank you for any advice you can offer!
 

Ravcat

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Re: UNIQUE LANDING SITUATION

I had to look up what was being called COPR:
When an immigrant is approved for permanent residence in Canada, they receive a Confirmation of Permanent Residence document. An immigration officer at the port of entry or a CIC office signs and dates this document when permanent residence is finally granted. This document is used by permanent residents to show to provincial and territorial organizations in order to access services. There is an immigration category printed on this document.

So I dont see any issues visiting at the end of May. He would have a return ticket to UK, his 'case' can be looked up and they can see everything has been done proper...

I am not sure if they would make him do the landing process then or if you can wait, not sure on that, but either way I dont see any issues?

They cant just snag the PR away like a kid caught with hand in cookie jar...(at least I hope not!)
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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I assume that his CoPR is valid through the end of August...correct?

One option, is for him to simply complete the B4 Goods to Follow form [ASAP] and just land when he arrives in Canada later this month.
Why not get it over with...and celebrate when he sees you!
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/form-b4-goods-to-followaccompanying-list-how-to-t44793.0.html

I have heard of some people deferring landing, even after returning to Canada for a short visit, and being hassled...but haven't heard of anyone being stripped of their CoPR at the airport.
 

Alurra71

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There was a case of one gentleman that attempted to land at a land crossing. He explained that he was not yet moving to Canada and that his Canadian spouse also did not reside in Canada and was currently enrolled in a 2 year program at a school in the USA. He was told that the CORP document was going to be voided and that his wife should reapply to sponsor him when they are actually ready to live in Canada. The officer at the time refused his landing and voided his COPR returning it to CIC.

I am unsure what the outcome was as the sponsor was going to complain to try and change the situation, however, I suspect that CIC agreed with the CBSA officer since neither were prepared to move to Canada in the near future.

I don't think this would apply to the OP on this thread, however, since she is already residing in Canada and her spouse will be returning soon. I would say just have him defer his actual 'landing' until he is ready for his permanent move, so long as his COPR is valid until that point, and enter Canada as a visitor for this visit. Better safe than sorry and all that jazz ;)

Good luck!
 

wowsers

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Feb 6, 2013
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I would follow Ponga's advice. I had no difficulty when I landed at Vancouver airport (in April 2014) and told the immigration officer that I would be returning home to the UK the following week to sell my house. The only problem which arose was the goods to follow later form: the immigration officer told me, incorrectly, that I had a year in which to lodge that and that though he could deal with it on behalf of Customs there was no point in his dealing with it there and then. I have subsequently discovered (and have an email from Canadian Customs to prove it) that there is no such time limit: fortunately so, because 13 months after landing my house is still unsold and I am still in the UK unable to move permanently. Imagine that for some unforseen reason your husband is unable to travel in August and the validity of his COPR expires. Then he has to start the whole process again. Get it over and done with asap!
 

dave1134

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Apr 1, 2015
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Thank you so much everyone! His COPR doesn't expire until 2016, so that is not an issue.

He is going to land next week, but we are confused about the forms where you are asked to list all of your items you are bringing with you into Canada.

1) Do you need to write down everything in your suitcase? Even socks etc? How do you value this? How do you value things such as a homemade scrapbook?

2) Can you make changes to the Goods to Follow form? He is not 100% sure what he is bringing with him in August and we need to hand in this form next week when he lands as a PR.

3) How big of a deal is this step? He is not bringing anything other than clothes and a few simple things. No jewellery, food, plants, meats, endangered species etc. We are worried this part of the process could be an issue.

4) Since he is leaving Canada two weeks after landing as a PR, he will be bringing most of his clothing back to the UK with him. How does this work? Does he put them on the sheet listing the items he is bringing into Canada the day he lands? Or are they goods to follow?

5) Is there a specific form you need to fill out? Or do you just create this list on your own?

Thank you again for your advice!
 

wowsers

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I referred in my post dated 17 May to the email I received from CBSA concerning the B4 forms. I copy it below because it answers most of your questions:


A settler describes all who enter Canada with the intention of establishing a residence for the first time and for a period of not less than 12 months. Persons entering Canada to become Permanent Residents without the intention of residing immediately in Canada are not considered Settlers to Canada since they do not have any intention of remaining in Canada at that time, and will live outside Canada for an undetermined period of time. Therefore, under customs legislation, these persons are considered visitors to Canada, even if they are Permanent Residents for immigration purposes.
Before you settle in Canada, you must prepare two copies of a list, preferably typed, detailing all household and personal goods you are bringing into the country. Your list should describe the goods, giving such details as the value, make, model, and serial number of each item, particularly high-value items. Please note that we require the current value of goods, not the replacement value. The list should be divided into two parts, showing which items are accompanying the owner at the time of arrival and which items are to arrive at a later date as “goods to follow.”
For general household items such as books or clothing, a group listing and overall value is sufficient (e.g., kitchen utensils – $000). Since jewellery is difficult to describe accurately, it is best to use the wording from your insurance policy or jeweller's appraisal and to include photographs that have been dated and signed by the jeweller or a gemologist. This information makes it easier to identify the jewellery when you first enter Canada, and later if you return from a trip abroad with this jewellery.
When you arrive in Canada you will have to give your list of goods to the border services officer, even if you do not have the goods with you at the time. Based on the list of goods you submit the officer will complete Form B4 or BSF186, Personal Effects Accounting Document, for you, assign a file number to your B4 or BSF186 form, and give you a copy of the completed form as a receipt. You will need to present your copy of the form to claim free importation of your unaccompanied goods when they arrive.
Memorandum D2-2-1, Settlers' Effects - Tariff Item No. 9807.00.00, provides information about the B4 or BSF186 forms for people settling in Canada. It can be found at:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html


It follows that when your husband 'lands' for immigration purposes in May (assuming he follows Ponga's advice) he will not be considered a settler for customs purposes, but simply as a visitor. He will become a settler for CBSA purposes in August when he arrives with the intention of staying for not less than 12 months. I found the immigration officer who handled my landing very easy going: I had typed out a B4(E) form but that is not essential. I had listed in it a few items of value I preferred to carry myself rather than place them in a container at a later date: items such as a few bits of silver and several watches. He was not the least bit interested in my form. Like you I had difficulty in preparing a goods to follow list: how was I to know whether I would eventually have room in a future Canadian house for (for example) the grand piano I own? The answer to that dilemma is that until one becomes a settler there is no need to complete a goods to follow list. There is incidentally so far as I am aware no official CBSA goods to follow list. I simply added sheets to the B4 form; but as I have explained that was unnecessary because at the time I was not a settler.
To answer your specific questions:
( 1) just list socks shirts etc as 'clothing' and give them a nominal value. I would have thought that a personal scrapbook would have no value: so simply enter Nil.
(2)Your question is based on a misunderstanding: your husband does not need a goods to follow form when he visits in May. He will need it in August. It cannot be subsequently amended because the concession is only available to persons who settle 'for the first time'. I quote from the declaration at the foot of the B4 form.
(3)The B4 form was not a big deal in my case: the immigration officer who dealt with the matter on behalf of CBSA was not at all interested in my valuables or my list.
(4) I suppose that strictly speaking your husband does not need to declare the goods he is bringing into Canada in May at all, because he will not be a settler in May. The time for declaring them will be August. There should be no problem in removing them from Canada at the end of his May visit.
(5) The completion of the B4 form is optional but if it is not completed and you hand in a long list of items you might find you have a disgruntled CBSA officer to deal with, because he will then need to copy it all out by hand onto a B4. But the issue will not arise in May: in your husband's case it will not arise until August.
I found on the internet a very helpful advice sheet entitled goods to follow - Canada'. It is on the British Expats.com website. You might find some reassurance by reading that.
 

realismsleeve

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Feb 6, 2015
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dave1134 said:
Hello,

My husband received his COPR and is planning on moving to Canada in August from the UK. However, he is coming to visit for a family event at the end of this month (May) for two weeks. After this event, he is returning home early June to live in the UK until he moves over completely in August.

My question is: Should he bring his documentation and land as a PR now? Or should he wait until August? While looking on posts on this forum about this question I came across someone stating "You will have to pretend at the airport that you're moving to Canada. I've heard of someone in this forum being cancelled their PR visa (I can't find you a link right now, but maybe you can have a look) when they told the officer they'd be returning to the country within the month."

How true is this comment? I would like to believe that being honest and explaining the situation would not make them take the PR away.

Thank you for any advice you can offer!
When I landed I stayed for 5 days then left again to resume work in another country. They did not question or interrogate me at all, it is more like an airport check in rather than an interview. As a PR you can stay outside of the country for 3 out of every 5 years and still keep your residency. He is absolutely allowed to enter and then leave whenever he wants, the only issue is his PR card will be mailed to an address in Canada. He will need someone to post it to him outside of Canada so that when he returns he has it to enter.

I do not believe whoever said the PR was cancelled when they told the officer they weren't settling at that time, once you have COPR the process is done, you simply have to enter Canada to confirm your residency before the expiry date on the COPR. You do not have to settle in Canada at that time.
 

Rob_TO

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realismsleeve said:
once you have COPR the process is done, you simply have to enter Canada to confirm your residency before the expiry date on the COPR. You do not have to settle in Canada at that time.
This is not true. Even after getting COPR, the CBSA officer can still cancel it at time of landing if any changes have occurred. This is clearly written right on the COPR document. i.e. we have seen a few cases here of a relationship ending after an applicant gets COPR, the sponsor reports it, and when they try to land the CBSA officer sees the note on their file and voids the COPR on the spot.

Also in cases where the sponsor is living abroad, they must prove in their PR application they intend to reside in Canada after applicant gets COPR. Not years later. So if they satisfy the visa officer in the PR app they intend to move to Canada, but then they tell the CBSA officer at landing they have no intention to move until years later, the COPR can indeed be cancelled on the spot. This is what most likely happened in that previously reported case.

Also there are the rules surrounding condition 51 which require cohabitation for 2 years, which the CBSA officer usually tells to the applicant upon landing. In cases where sponsor is living in Canada and applicant tells officer they will go back to home country for an extended time, again there is a chance something negative will occur from this such as a flag being put in their file to check up on condition 51 compliance later on or when they return back to Canada.

In short, once you become a PR you can usually then travel outside Canada up to 3 years without any impact. However in cases of spousal sponsorship, you should just not tell the CBSA officer upon landing that you intend to do this. There are too many potential negative things that could happen in case you get a super strict or jerk officer do your landing.