UNDUE DELAY IN IRCC RESPONSE FOR PR CARD RENEWAL

[jakklondon]

I am in breach of RO.

Why did you leave Canada while your PR application was in process? If you were in compliance when you last time spoke with them, and now you are in breach, what do you think will happen when you cross the border? For the past several years Canadian authorities tracked entry and exit of PRs. What will you tell at the border when they flag you? Do you have compelling H & C grounds to overcome report?
I always criticize Canadian government for what I believe is a silly RO enforcement, I find it unreasonable to punish people who are forced to leave Canada for lack of opportunities. But, reading your post and some posts similar to yours, I think abuse of law by immigrants is another reason why so many Canadians get upset, and then they create policies that affect all and blanketly (for fear of being accused of discrimination).
The pattern you describe (and I have seen a lot of it) seems to be common for immigrants who stay abroad for sheer comfort and ease, and not out of true necessity. Like, going back to country of origin and staying there for 3 years and then coming back to Canada and staying in Canada for 1 year and then again going back to home village, where there is a lot of socializing, boasting of "successful landing in Canada" and maintaining of all the family ties.
It doesn't seem like this category of immigrants go back out of necessity to survive and/or work in skilled field. And it is an abusive pattern, indeed, to have it both ways and return to Canada at will to get whatever benefits are needed from her.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying that you personally fall into above category. You may have H&C grounds I am not aware of. But you haven't described any H&C grounds applicable to you (and you don't have to), you just said IRCC ruled in your favor despite RO and taking into consideration whatever you presented to them with PR application, and I have written above based largely on my assumptions and associating the pattern you describe with the one I am familiar with, after reading some other posts about individuals in breach of RO.

 

[jakklondon]

I think that when a huge article appears in the CIC.ca newspaper and other large newspapers in Canada about how IRCC scoffs at new immigrants, does not respond to requests, and forces them to leave the country, IRCC will themselves look for whoever wrote it.

Your daughter's case is different. She could benefit from publicity and if I were you I would try to bring some attention to her cause. You mentioned earlier that she is Israeli. You have some very large Jewish settlement organizations in Canada. If I were you, I would contact at least some of them and see if they would be interested in highlighting her story. I would also contact local and national news organizations. It's not all that difficult in our age. Make a Linkedin contact with journalists in major newspapers and let them know what's going on. One or other may be interested in pursuing the story, and next thing you know the entire process will be changed and everyone (not just your daughter) will benefit from it. It's not that difficult to show a little bit of common decency and to respond to applicant's inquiry two after they submitted their PR application. There is absolutely no justification to treat PR they way your daughter was treated.

 

[armoured]

He was in Canada at fourth year of initial PR (from 18 years and on month of his age) and therefore completed around 14 months of residency when his renewal date arrived. So we applied for renewal. However, after that he never moved out of Canada till today and completed the 3 years of citizenship requirement and therefore we applied also for his citizenship.

It is somewhat more clear, thank you.

First, there is another thread here where a somewhat similar case came up - I cannot recall unfortunately which of them. (I think it was this: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/what-is-the-chance-of-being-denied-a-prtd.748303/page-2#post-9786114 )

Short form: this does appear to be not rare - applying before one is in compliance with the residency obligation causes significant delays. [Too late in this case but best guidance is - don't do that, mostly.] (And I'm guessing a bit but I think there will be no movement on the citizenship app until the residency obligation compliance for the PR card renewal is resolved).

Good news: if the applicant has not been formally reported (and applicant should have been notified) and the process of revoking PR status not started, this delay (or possibly even forbearance by an officer) most likely means that the applicant's residency oblgation has 'aged into' being back in compliance. And seemingly sufficient for the citizenship app.

Neutral (?): from the timing probably part of this delay has been covid-related.

Bad news: Possibility of a more serious issue is non-zero (although I think those with experience would say unlikely). But probably the annoying part is what would need to be done to 'dislodge' the app from whatever shelf or bureaucratic loop it is lodged in is not at all obvious.

The safest route would probably be to find a lawyer to both judge the risk and help strategize or find tactics that might dislodge the app (or pressure IRCC to deal with it). The other steps are eg to try through your MP and see if they can assist.

Regardless I'd suggest ordering gcms notes - you may not find there what the issue is but possibly you'd find something of use.

[Note, I've sometimes here just referred to 'the app' and read that as both the PR and citizenship applications where appropriate; note though that citizenship apps are seriously backlogged right now and even more so when there is soemthing out of the ordinary - in other words the citizenship app may not be that much out of normal processing timeframe if at all, and a guess is it won't get finalized soon either.]

 

[Aleks30]

jakklondon

You have some very large Jewish settlement organizations in Canada. If I were you, I would contact at least some of them and see if they would be interested in highlighting her story. I would also contact local and national news organizations. It's not all that difficult in our age.

Thank you ... Most likely I will.
Tomorrow my daughter is going to renew her Driver's license again ..( for 1 or 2 months.For a longer period, they do not agree))
And again she will beg to do it.
I'm already tired of this mockery.

Yesterday I again made an URGENT request via the WEb form.
Guess what answer I got?
That's right, - about Afghanistan.

 

[jakklondon]

jakklondon


Thank you ... Most likely I will.
Tomorrow my daughter is going to renew her Driver's license again ..( for 1 or 2 months.For a longer period, they do not agree))
And again she will beg to do it.
I'm already tired of this mockery.

Yesterday I again made an URGENT request via the WEb form.
Guess what answer I got?
That's right, - about Afghanistan.

It's utterly reprehensible that Canadian PR must beg to get 2 months extension on her driver's license. You are very patient person. I would raise Hell, march before embassies, walk into news channels, hire attorneys and (if all else failed) proceed pro se and sue the bureaucrats doing such injustice to my daughter.
Within legal framework there are always ways to stand tall and fight for your rights. And only when you do that will bureaucrats yield to you what you are entitled to by law. She is not a fugitive, she is not a criminal, she is not a lawbreaker, she is PR who is not even in breach of RO (not at this time anyway), and she should not be shy to demand that she be treated accordingly.

 

[Aleks30]

For more than 2 years, my daughter did not travel outside Canada at all.
She has the required number of days for a long time.
She can't even visit me and my wife. - parents. Because she is afraid that she will not receive PRTD!

 

[jakklondon]

For more than 2 years, my daughter did not travel outside Canada at all.
She has the required number of days for a long time.
She can't even visit me and my wife. - parents. Because she is afraid that she will not receive PRTD!

Yes, I hear you. That's why I suggest that she strongly fight for her rights and demand what she is entitled to.

 

[chella99]

Dear All,

On my talk with IRCC thru the distant call, the call center rep said that they have sent a note online to process my fine quickly. But nothing has happened so far. I even asked whether my file has been lost or misplaced, but they said all is intact and that there is no further requirement of any sort from me.
It is over 2.5 years (30 months) and still no news. However, the challenges of Covid 19, etc. are faced, by any standards, a 30-month processing time is simply atrocious and indigestible.

All the aspects of my situation and uniques features have been adequately shared by me earlier.

What else you think I can do to get some sort of outcome and communication from IRCC ? Why do they place themselves most of the times beyond a person's reach ? Then the very purpose of people wanting to follow up on their case is defeated and the whole follow-up efforts look a farce and ridicule.

Any views please ?

Thanks.

 

[armoured]

It is over 2.5 years (30 months) and still no news. However, the challenges of Covid 19, etc. are faced, by any standards, a 30-month processing time is simply atrocious and indigestible.
...
All the aspects of my situation and uniques features have been adequately shared by me earlier.
...
What else you think I can do to get some sort of outcome and communication from IRCC ?

I have only attempted to look at some of your many posts but not all of the unique details or aspects of your situation are clear. So I may have missed something, unintentionally.

But leaving those parts aside, here are the salient details as far as I can tell them, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

-You applied in May 2019 and were not in compliance with the residency obligation then. You said you had some 'reasons' and hoped they'd approve, I presume that was some kind of H&C reasons.
-Important to note here: I have no info on your H&C case or other mitigating factors, other than some family n Canada (incl spouse) and a dwelling of some kind.
-It's not at all clear whether you were in Canada when you applied, nor indeed if you've been in Canada at all during that time period. (I'm kind-of going to assume that you haven't been in Canada any of that time period - but if you wish to correct, please be precise). Specifically: when were you last in Canada?
-Also not clear when your previous PR card expired. Probably before May 2019?
-Nonetheless you started getting some communication about the card possibly being ready, possibly for pick-up, possibly a decision made beginning in May 2020.
-Almost all of that time period and certainly since March 2020 you've been out of Canada, seemingly with no PR card to travel back to Canada with, and presumably not accruing more days towards the residency obligation (ie. more and more out of compliance). You are not just a little bit out of compliance, in other words, but by now, likely very much out of compliance.
-For at least a year you've been asking about how to apply for a PRTD and saying you would apply shortly. I presume you have not done so.
-Likewise, presume you cannot get to the USA to present yourself at a Canadian port of entry as a PR (i.e. you do not have and / or cannot get a visa to the USA).

Based on all of the above, my guess is that IRCC is not going to do anything with your file until you either apply for a PRTD, present at a Canadian port of entry, or somehow demonstrate you are in Canada. (Or additional option: file some legal action, with assistance of lawyer, that somehow makes IRCC respond - I have no idea whether there are actually any viable means to do so apart from the above). I have no guess what will happen in any of those circumstances. Before you undertake any of the above, you really should consider speaking to a lawyer; in one of those, you would need a lawyer to assist anyway.

I believe or understand that your spouse is either a PR or citizen, possibly still resident in Canada. If that is the case, your easiest route of action may be to apply for a PRTD - if approved, return to Canada, and if not, renounce your status and apply for family sponsorship anew.

But again, my point is simple: my guess is that IRCC isn't going to do anything until you do. So do something, and something concrete (as above), not just asking on forums or writing webmails to IRCC.

And to be explicit: my guess is that any further delays before your next step - like applying for PRTD - are not going to help and probably will hurt your chances of a positive decision.

[My wild speculation is that at some point they had a tentative approval/opinion that your H&C reasons might pass muster, but if and only if you actually attempted to return to Canada to settle (and hence left the card for pick-up). And that since you haven't done so (that is, even returned to Canada a single time) in any timeframes they might have had in mind in March 2020, those previous (tentative) opinions are probably null and void. Now it's possible they might still consider H&C reasons, like covid etc., but basically, if you're not in Canada, not attempting to return to Canada, not showing up at a border, they will let the file age, quite possibly to a point where it's clear that you do not have any intention of actually returning or your application can be easily denied. Again, waiting longer is probably not going to help your file.]

All of this just my opinion, not an expert, you should probably get proper legal advice.

 

[dpenabill]

It is over 2.5 years (30 months) and still no news. However, the challenges of Covid 19, etc. are faced, by any standards, a 30-month processing time is simply atrocious and indigestible.

@armoured has covered things rather well . . . covered them AGAIN it warrants noting, as your situation has been covered multiple times by multiple forum participants. There have been numerous posts in this thread alone which explain things from various angles, subject to this and that variable. What is happening is NOT about how long IRCC takes to process PR card applications. This is about YOUR situation in particular, about your particular facts, your particular status . . . and, frankly, it looks problematic UNLESS you are IN Canada now OR you are at least in compliance with the Residency Obligation as of now (as of today, counting days IN Canada within the last five years, as of today).

That is, here's the situation (most likely): it probably comes down to two things:

-- are you IN Canada or OUTSIDE Canada, and​

-- counting days IN Canada looking at the last five years, from TODAY, is the total number of days IN Canada more or less than 730​

It appears you are NOT in Canada and that you have NOT been in Canada at least 730 days within the last five years as of today. If this is the situation your case is very obviously NOT about how long IRCC takes to process a PR card application. If this is the situation, the PR card application itself is of little if any importance. Your case is about YOUR situation, your particular facts, and whether or not you are currently INADMISSIBLE.

And make no mistake, whether or not you have a valid PR card makes very little difference in regards to this, in regards to your status. If you are currently inadmissible, even if you were in possession of a valid PR card you would still be inadmissible.

Frankly, given the amount of information and explanation you have been offered here, already, based on this latest inquiry it appears you are not getting it, that you are not understanding what matters let alone what is most important in your situation.

So you probably need to go over the entire situation with a qualified professional, an experienced immigration lawyer, so the lawyer can do some important things:

-- review the details of your situation, and​

-- explain things based on those details, and​

-- offer some advice about what options you have, what choices you have, what you can do​

By the way . . . better to lawyer-up and go over options with the lawyer . . . but overall your options to resolve the situation likely come down to one of the following (which really have been covered before, multiple times), recognizing that the outcome will depend on your particular situation (including, especially, whether you are in Canada or not; in compliance with the RO or not):

-- if you are outside Canada, then you could --​

-- -- apply for a PR Travel Document and return to Canada, or​

-- -- come to Canada via the U.S. (if this is an available option for you)​

-- if you are currently in compliance with the RO, as of today, AND you are IN Canada, then --​

-- -- you could hire a lawyer to pursue a Writ of Mandamus, or​

-- -- you could travel outside Canada and return to Canada, either by​

-- -- -- applying for a PR Travel Document to obtain documentation that will enable you to board a flight to return to Canada, or​

-- -- -- come to Canada via the U.S. (if this is an available option for you)​

​

​

Any of those will very likely trigger a more definitive determination of your status. Prodding IRCC might trigger some action on the PR card application itself, but that seems unlikely UNLESS one of the following has happened:

-- you have hired a lawyer and the lawyer has initiated the process to obtain a Writ of Mandamus, or​

-- you have applied for a PR Travel Document, or​

-- you have arrived at a Port-of-Entry seeking entry into Canada​

 

[jakklondon]

Dear All,

On my talk with IRCC thru the distant call, the call center rep said that they have sent a note online to process my fine quickly. But nothing has happened so far. I even asked whether my file has been lost or misplaced, but they said all is intact and that there is no further requirement of any sort from me.
It is over 2.5 years (30 months) and still no news. However, the challenges of Covid 19, etc. are faced, by any standards, a 30-month processing time is simply atrocious and indigestible.

All the aspects of my situation and uniques features have been adequately shared by me earlier.

What else you think I can do to get some sort of outcome and communication from IRCC ? Why do they place themselves most of the times beyond a person's reach ? Then the very purpose of people wanting to follow up on their case is defeated and the whole follow-up efforts look a farce and ridicule.

Any views please ?

Thanks.

If you are outside of Canada and in continuous breach of RO (and you submitted your PR card while you were in breach and you continue to be in breach/out of Canada while your PR card app pending), then what you should expect is the decision by IRCC to strip you of your PR status.
Not knowing what your H & C grounds in PR app were, it's hard to say what exactly will happen, but unless you have some compelling evidence to get a waiver under H & C, the only thing they should be doing is denying your PR app and advising you that you are no longer a PR.

 

[Aleks30]

Question!
How can IRCC be compelled to finally start reviewing documents?(You can wait 5 and 10 years.)

 

[armoured]

Question!
How can IRCC be compelled to finally start reviewing documents?(You can wait 5 and 10 years.)

What steps have you taken since you got a number of suggestions here (in October, i think)?

 

[jakklondon]

Question!
How can IRCC be compelled to finally start reviewing documents?(You can wait 5 and 10 years.)

There is a legal process called Writ of mandamus (Latin for "We Command"), that exists in Canada. It is a way to force impudent bureaucrat to discharge a duty that he is refusing to discharge otherwise. You go to a higher authority (Federal Court in this case) and force the jerk to do his job.

Here is the quote from one of the immigration attorney's website:

Mandamus is a judicial remedy which is in the form of an order from a superior court to any government, subordinate court, corporation or public authority to do or forbear from doing some specific act which that body is obliged under law to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, and which is in the nature of public duty and in certain cases of a statutory duty. It cannot be issued to compel an authority to do something against statutory provision.

The applicant pleading for a writ of mandamus to be enforced must demonstrate that s/he has a legal right to compel the respondent to do or refrain from doing the specific act. The duty sought to be enforced must have two qualities:

1. It must be a duty of public nature; and
2. The duty must be imperative and should not be discretionary.

For the court to issue a writ a mandamus, a number of conditions must be satisfied.

1. There must be a public legal duty to act.
2. The duty must be owed to the applicant.
3. There is a clear right to the performance of that duty, in particular:
4. The applicant has satisfied all conditions precedent giving rise to the duty;
5. There was:
   1. a prior demand for performance of the duty; (ii) a reasonable time to comply with the demand unless refused outright; and
   2. a subsequent refusal which can be either expressed or implied, e.g. unreasonable delay.
6. No other adequate remedy is available to the applicant.
7. The order sought will be of some practical value or effect.
8. The Court in the exercise of discretion finds no equitable bar to the relief sought.
9. On a “balance of convenience” an order in the nature of mandamus should issue.

When contemplating whether to commence a mandamus application, counsel should make reference to the processing times listed on the CIC website. Unreasonable delay can only be determined in comparison to average processing times. In submissions, counsel should focus on the normal processing times and how much the processing time in question has exceeded the average, what the applicant has done to ensure that his/her application is complete and well documented, and reasons why the applicant feels that the officer’s explanation for the delay is unsatisfactory.

In this respect, the Courts in most cases have refused to accept departmental backlogs, or staff shortages as reasonable explanations, nor do they tend to look to the system as a whole. Rather, each case is assessed on its own facts. The question often arises as to whether a background or security check constitutes a justifiable explanation for the delay. As with the other prongs of the test, this is a determination which can only be made with reference to the specific facts of the case. Counsel must tailor the arguments to the facts of the case at hand, with particular attention paid to what the applicant has been doing to move his case along, and what the respondent has failed to do to perform their duty.

No Other Adequate Remedy is Available to the Applicant

In the immigration context, this prong of the test is easily satisfied – an officer is the only person in a position to grant the remedy that the applicant is requesting – namely, the issuance of a visa or other immigration document.

The Order Sought will be of Some Practical Value or Effect

Again, this is rarely an issue in a mandamus application in the immigration context. Generally speaking, given that the order will compel the officer to process the application in question within a given time frame, the practical effect of the order is obvious.

In the Exercise of Discretion there is No Equitable Bar to the Relief Sought.

Under this prong of the test, the Court is looking to determine if the applicant has been responsible for the delay and/or has compromised their cause in any other way. The applicant must come to the Court “with clean hands”, in order to satisfy the Court that there is no equitable bar to an order of mandamus. This however does not mean an applicant as in the case at bar with a criminal history cannot seek relief. To the contrary an applicant with a criminal history that has sought relief on the basis of section 24 of the IRPA for example has a right to have that application decided in a reasonable period of time.

Balance of Convenience

Mandamus requires the Applicant to show that the balance of convenience favours the Applicant. This last prong of the test is closely related to the “clean hands” question discussed above. This issue relates to the prejudice that the applicant suffers as a result of the delay. Mandamus remains a very powerful option for applicants.

If you have any questions about your case please contact us to discuss what may be involved in seeking a mandamus remedy.

 

[armoured]

Question!
How can IRCC be compelled to finally start reviewing documents?(You can wait 5 and 10 years.)

I'm going to post in your original/main thread about your daughter's case because all the background is there.