Unable to get married and unable to be/prove common-law

[amikety]

Thanks for the advice so far folks.

First off: I did not mention conjugal because we do not qualify for it. I quit my job in Canada and moved here to be with her.

Secondly, we are not opposed to going to Argentina. In fact, I think it would be cool, because it's one of the few countries that we can both visit without visas. However, none of my family will be able to attend, and then I'd have CIC questioning why none of our family members or friends were at the wedding, and why we went so far away to do it. It truly seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

We do have a lot of proof of our relationship, including thousands of messages on Facebook, MSN, and e-mails while we were apart. We met in 2009 when I was there studying Russian. I went back to Canada for a year, had a good job, but after she was refused TRVs, I decided to move back, because the long-distance thing was not fun. So I've been here since August 2011, but only living together since July 2012. The relationship should not be in question, but the cohabitation might be. She has Skype chat logs from talking to my parents, some messages with my brother, and messages from my family members welcoming her to my family. I have letters from friends and co-workers here who know about us, stating that we are a couple, live together, etc. (The co-workers are also teachers, and "westerners" who are more open-minded.)

As for South Africa, I am getting conflicting information about whether non-residents are allowed to marry there. And she needs a visa, so that makes it complicated.

CIC officers are sensitive to the unique challenges we face. If your family cannot come, writing a statement to CIC will help. In fact, you can have a civil ceremony and tell CIC you plan to have a formal wedding in Canada after your wife lands. A lot of people do that. (Like me!)

I'm not going to say it will be easy and CIC will waive her through. I am saying many people have dealt with this issue and made it through to the other side.

My thoughts are go ahead and invite anyone you wish. Send written invitations by evite. People can respond to them and leave comments. Ask your parents, siblings, etc, to respond and write "I'm unable to travel/afford a trip to Argentina right now" or whatever reason they have for declining. This way you can show a) you did invite them; b) they are aware of the relationship; and c) they are aware you're marrying. This will require a little effort on the part of friends and family, but will also leave a written trail that you can screen shot and print out to include with your application. Then you can confidently say "My family was unable to attend, but they were invited and aware of the relationship."

 

[DGT]

I'm basing my opinion on the story of the user Erina. You can look her up and read about her story. OP isn't considering conjugal anyway Just in case you're curious.

Thanks!

 

[MilesAway]

I think my situation is also a bit different from Erina (but I agree it does set a precedent), in that they could go to any of the neighbouring countries to get married, but did not want to. We cannot go to any neighbouring country, because they either a)don't do same-sex marriage, b) won't allow foreigners to get married or c)take a long time for the paperwork, longer than my fiancee can get a visa for. So our options are either a)hope the TRV goes through, but given 3 previous refusals, I'm not optimistic or b) make a 44 hour trek (one way!) around the world to Argentina.

If it comes down to it, we'll go to Argentina. But one ticket is 2 months salary for my fiancee, and 1 month salary for me. I make roughly half of what I made in Canada. But I'd rather be here with her and poor, than rich and 8 time zones away.


The fact that I need to spend most of the summer in Canada means that it will be impossible for us to get married until next summer, because I can't just take off for a month, and it's expensive to sit around and twiddle your thumbs while waiting for marriage paperwork in a foreign country. I'm still hoping that Iceland is a possibility, although it isn't mentioned on CIC's site. It's legal there, so I can't see why it wouldn't be accepted. Just need to convince my boss that giving me even more time off is a good plan. Sigh.

 

[moz77]

I think my situation is also a bit different from Erina (but I agree it does set a precedent), in that they could go to any of the neighbouring countries to get married, but did not want to. We cannot go to any neighbouring country, because they either a)don't do same-sex marriage, b) won't allow foreigners to get married or c)take a long time for the paperwork, longer than my fiancee can get a visa for. So our options are either a)hope the TRV goes through, but given 3 previous refusals, I'm not optimistic or b) make a 44 hour trek around the world to Argentina.

If it comes down to it, we'll go to Argentina. But one ticket is 2 months salary for my fiancee, and 1 month salary for me. I make roughly half of what I made in Canada. But I'd rather be here with her and poor, than rich and 8 time zones away.


The fact that I need to spend most of the summer in Canada means that it will be impossible for us to get married until next summer, because I can't just take off for a month, and it's expensive to sit around and twiddle your thumbs while waiting for marriage paperwork in a foreign country. I'm still hoping that Iceland is a possibility, although it isn't mentioned on CIC's site. It's legal there, so I can't see why it wouldn't be accepted. Just need to convince my boss that giving me even more time off is a good plan. Sigh.

Same-sex marriage is also legal in Mexico City and the state of Quintana Roo, Mexico. A little closer than Argentina.

 

[DGT]

CIC officers are sensitive to the unique challenges we face. If your family cannot come, writing a statement to CIC will help. In fact, you can have a civil ceremony and tell CIC you plan to have a formal wedding in Canada after your wife lands. A lot of people do that. (Like me!)

I'm not going to say it will be easy and CIC will waive her through. I am saying many people have dealt with this issue and made it through to the other side.

My thoughts are go ahead and invite anyone you wish. Send written invitations by evite. People can respond to them and leave comments. Ask your parents, siblings, etc, to respond and write "I'm unable to travel/afford a trip to Argentina right now" or whatever reason they have for declining. This way you can show a) you did invite them; b) they are aware of the relationship; and c) they are aware you're marrying. This will require a little effort on the part of friends and family, but will also leave a written trail that you can screen shot and print out to include with your application. Then you can confidently say "My family was unable to attend, but they were invited and aware of the relationship."

Excellent advice. +1.

 

[MilesAway]

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

Mexico City is not possible for us, because almost every flight goes through the US, and my fiancee needs a transit visa. She was refused a US visa earlier this month, so I don't foresee them changing their tune.

 

[Steph C]

I think if you can stay until July you have a great chance at being common law. I know it's possible to get a temporary passport in Russia because I have enough friends and colleagues who have had their belongings stolen in Russia and had to get new ones! Can you get issued a temporary one at your embassy? There is no chance of renewal inside Russia? Then maybe it's time to lose your passport. If you can make it to one year cohabitation you will have a decent chance at common law.

 

[MilesAway]

In order to renew your passport in Russia, you cannot have a valid Russian visa in your passport (that makes sense right, you must be in Russia illegally to do that). If you have a valid visa, then you need to do the whole process of getting a guarantor (lawyer, doctor, dentist, etc) who lives and works in Russia. I don't know anyone who fits that bill.

If you declare your passport as lost or stolen, you are no longer eligible for simplified renewal. That's a bummer.

Theoretically, you can renew your passport here, but while you now have a valid passport, the question remains of "what do I do for 5 weeks in Russia without any documents?" And then once you have a valid passport, you don't have a valid visa, migration card, or registration. So then you cannot leave Russia without bribing someone, or jumping through a million hoops. In either case, I need to leave Russia at some point and get a new visa, because mine cannot be transfered. The only time I can leave work for that long is the summer, as I am a teacher and under contract from September to June.

I would love to be able to ask the embassy, but it took me 4 months to get an e-mail response from them. I've been trying to figure this passport/visa thing out since November. I asked my employer, they weren't sure, so they asked the migration authorities here. They told me to call the consulate. They do not answer the phone. I e-mailed them repeatedly in November, no response. So I had my parents contact Passport Canada on the off-chance they knew, they told them to call the Russian Embassy, who said to call the Russian consulate, who told me to call the Canadian Embassy in Moscow. And they don't answer the phone. Finally, I get a response by e-mail, which tells me to contact my employer to see if my visa can be transfered, and to contact the Russian authorities or the Russian consulate. ARGH!

The Embassy basically told me: You really shouldn't renew your passport in Russia, because you'll have no visa and a blank passport. Go to Helsinki instead. So that puts me in Helsinki for at least 2 and a half months, not exactly a cheap place to be. Given the choice between twiddling my thumbs in Helsinki for 2 months or twiddling my thumbs in Canada for 2 months, I'll take Canada. At least there I can stay at my parents' house and not pay rent or hotel fees. And I'll probably work for a few weeks, so it's not a total waste, and to help my fiancee pay the rent.


*Edit* I'm not even sure if I can start counting from July, because she moved in right before I left to work at summer camp, just outside of the city. I could only come home on week-ends. My residence was not at summer camp, but I was there from Sunday nights until Saturday afternoons, for the end of July and almost all of August.

 

[amikety]

I'm sorry the Embassy is giving you such a hard time. It sucks

You may want to consult with several qualified immigration lawyers - get the free 15 minute consultations. The common-law rules seem a little fuzzy to me - there's room for interpretation in many of them. For instance, it's perfectly legal to live together 12 months, then move back to Canada and sponsor the CL spouse while living apart after qualifying for CL. The key is to get to at least 12 months - 365 days no less. If you can do that, you can start the sponsorshiping while in Canada. You're also allowed to be apart for qualifying periods. My opinion is getting your passport renewed would qualify, but I'm not CIC or the Visa Office That's why I suggest contacting a lawyer. I would definitely check with more than 1 (I contacted one who was incompentent). Or see if someone who has more experience with common-law has an opinion.

 

[Rob_TO]

So I a) cannot prove that we are common-law, and b) there is a chance that we can't even be common-law. I need to return to Canada to renew my passport, and get a new visa because my current visa is cancelled when the passport is. The whole process will probably take 2 months. I cannot do it in country. The Canadian Embassy helpfully told me: We take your current passport and cancel it. This also cancels the visa. Then you must wait 5 weeks for a new passport. Um, and how does that work in a country where I need a passport to sneeze? Seriously, I don't understand how that was even an option. Since I can only get time off in the summer, I'll need to leave before we reach the 12 month mark. And since I'm gone for 2 months, that resets the counter to 0 right?

Yes, unfortunately a 2-month separation would break the "continuous" part of the cohabitation requirement. After you've reached the 12-month point of continuous, then you are allowed to take breaks in living together due to visa issues, family, school etc since you've already established common-law. But CIC is VERY strict on the initial 12-months, and i'm pretty confident they would reject a common-law application that had a 2-month break in the middle of it.

The last option is Argentina, but I fail to see why I need to fly across the globe, and eliminate the chance of any family members attending my wedding.

As others mentioned, this most likely disqualifies you for conjugal. There is an option to get married, and CIC will not care about the reasons you don't want to do it.

IMO this is the route you should be taking if there is no way to live together 12-months continuous. I would keep investigating marriage options in countries closer to you since Argentina is pretty far.

As for the wedding i also agree it shouldn't be a problem if your families can't attend. You can explain the situation of why they couldn't be there, and if they support your marriage you can get a whole bunch of testimonial letters from your friends/family saying how they wished they could attend but it is too expensive or far to travel. Just due to the time/expenses/troubles you and your partner will need to go through to get to a place like Argentina to get married, should be proof in itself it's a genuine relationship.

 

[Steph C]

It sounds like you have two options - Marry somewhere far away, or cohabitate the last 2 months somewhere else. Is Tallinn cheaper then Helsinki? Maybe you can look at staying elsewhere. If you traveled those months together it would also count.

 

[MilesAway]

Sigh. Thank you.


So, basically I need to save up for another year to fly to Argentina to get married. Then, given how Moscow is somewhere around 14 months, I need to wait about a year and a half, all in a country where my fiancee was almost murdered 3 weeks ago. Oooh, sounds like fun. I get to stay in a country where I can lose my job and be deported at any minute. (Just venting, because it's ridiculous.)

I find it unfair that people apply in the conjugal category, because they don't want to leave their jobs in Canada to go live with their spouse, stating they "can't get a visa there". For most countries, you certainly can get a long-term visa, it just takes some effort. The most common job would be teaching English, so if you really wanted to, you absolutely could be common-law. So they approve those people, but I need to jump through a hundred hoops, and spend the equivalent of a year's salary for my fiancee, for us to traipse around the globe to get married. Yay for equality!



One more question about the common-law thing. If she accompanies me somewhere for at least part of the time, would it count? It can't be all, because of the visa issues. She only gets visas for 1 month, and it'll take 2 to process.


Tallinn is slightly cheaper, but the visa issue arises again. She can only get visas for 30 days, and her job won't let her take longer than that. She could quit her job, but that would mean she would never get another visa (unemployed Russian women are pretty much a no-go for visas).

 

[Steph C]

Sigh. Thank you.


So, basically I need to save up for another year to fly to Argentina to get married. Then, given how Moscow is somewhere around 14 months, I need to wait about a year and a half, all in a country where my fiancee was almost murdered 3 weeks ago. Oooh, sounds like fun. I get to stay in a country where I can lose my job and be deported at any minute. (Just venting, because it's ridiculous.)

I find it unfair that people apply in the conjugal category, because they don't want to leave their jobs in Canada to go live with their spouse, stating they "can't get a visa there". For most countries, you certainly can get a long-term visa, it just takes some effort. The most common job would be teaching English, so if you really wanted to, you absolutely could be common-law. So they approve those people, but I need to jump through a hundred hoops, and spend the equivalent of a year's salary for my fiancee, for us to traipse around the globe to get married. Yay for equality!



One more question about the common-law thing. If she accompanies me somewhere for at least part of the time, would it count? It can't be all, because of the visa issues. She only gets visas for 1 month, and it'll take 2 to process.


Tallinn is slightly cheaper, but the visa issue arises again. She can only get visas for 30 days, and her job won't let her take longer than that. She could quit her job, but that would mean she would never get another visa (unemployed Russian women are pretty much a no-go for visas).

They don't just hand out Conjugal visas. It's really hard to get approved. There are some people, due to divorce laws in their country, who are absolutely not able to marry their partners and can't live together either. You could absolutely try for one - but you're able to marry, for that I think you're lucky - I can't marry my partner.

Yes, they will count the time you travel together. Also, you're allowed to take little breaks or trips apart - the clock doesn't reset. Maybe you can look into coming back to Russia after the two months and applying after another 6 months as Common Law.

 

[moz77]

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

Mexico City is not possible for us, because almost every flight goes through the US, and my fiancee needs a transit visa. She was refused a US visa earlier this month, so I don't foresee them changing their tune.

Actually Aeroflot has a direct flight from Moscow to Havana, and from there Aeromexico has direct flights to Cancun and Mexico City (both cities allow same-sex marriage). Maybe your best option is to wait and qualify as common law as others have suggested. Good luck!

 

[cdnmom]

*Edit* I'm not even sure if I can start counting from July, because she moved in right before I left to work at summer camp, just outside of the city. I could only come home on week-ends. My residence was not at summer camp, but I was there from Sunday nights until Saturday afternoons, for the end of July and almost all of August.

I am not 100% sure about this... but just because you were away during the week to work... doesn't mean that you still weren't common-law with your partner. There are plenty of situations here in Canada where one partner lives in one province and the other partner works on the other side of the country for 2-3 weeks at a time... does this mean they aren't common-law???