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Travelling to Canada by car with expired pr card

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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This is all very helpful!

Would you all be able to confirm that this thread applies to me as well?

US citizen / Canadian PR
Land crossing in my own vehicle at Niagara
Expired PR card - already applied for renewal

Just planning to go to the states for a few days and want to make sure I won't run into trouble at the border returning to Canada.

Any extra documents I should carry to prove my PR status?

Thanks!
Expired PR card will be sufficient. If you have other Canadian docs (driver's license, health card, whatever) will help to show that you are a factual resident (and more likely in compliance with the residency obligation). I assume your vehicle is Canadian plated, so that'll also help make the case.

Note, as a US passport holder, much of the discussion above does not apply in that you could also board a flight without a PR card, but tangential to your question.
 

weilkevin

Member
Mar 28, 2017
11
0
Expired PR card will be sufficient. If you have other Canadian docs (driver's license, health card, whatever) will help to show that you are a factual resident (and more likely in compliance with the residency obligation). I assume your vehicle is Canadian plated, so that'll also help make the case.

Note, as a US passport holder, much of the discussion above does not apply in that you could also board a flight without a PR card, but tangential to your question.
Thank you!
And I appreciate the additional note about traveling by air.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
16,679
8,507
Thank you!
And I appreciate the additional note about traveling by air.
Good luck, let others know how it goes.

Just to be clear, if you're in compliance with the residency obligation, the main 'risk' is that you might get sent to secondary, i.e. it would just take somewhat longer. That's why it's helpful to demonstrate you're actually/factually resident. Can't hurt to mention you've already applied for the PR card renewal - depending on how long ago you applied, the renewal app might already be in the system.
 

weilkevin

Member
Mar 28, 2017
11
0
My crossing was a breeze. I had prepared to show all of my proof of residence but needed nothing more than my expired PR card. The officer asked if my card was reported lost or stolen recently. I told them, "no, it is expired. I've applied for a new card but it hasn't arrived yet." That was sufficient for them.

Thanks all for the advice!
 

deadinside

Full Member
Mar 2, 2024
23
4
My crossing was a breeze. I had prepared to show all of my proof of residence but needed nothing more than my expired PR card. The officer asked if my card was reported lost or stolen recently. I told them, "no, it is expired. I've applied for a new card but it hasn't arrived yet." That was sufficient for them.

Thanks all for the advice!
Glad to know that it went smoothly for you. However, I can't help but wonder if you had a passport of a country that requires a visa to travel to Canada. Also, not to be racist or anything, but I think the probability of being sent to secondary increases exponentially if you're not the right ethnicity, gender or nationality.

It's more like how car insurance works. Males aged 18-25 pay more than males aged 35-45, all other things being equal.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
16,679
8,507
Glad to know that it went smoothly for you. However, I can't help but wonder if you had a passport of a country that requires a visa to travel to Canada. Also, not to be racist or anything, but I think the probability of being sent to secondary increases exponentially if you're not the right ethnicity, gender or nationality.

It's more like how car insurance works. Males aged 18-25 pay more than males aged 35-45, all other things being equal.
If by this analogy with car insurance - where young males RIGHTFULLY AND LAWFULLY pay more than other groups based on the fact that they are demonstrably less safe drivers - you mean to imply that other ethnicities, genders and nationalities actually do present some higher risk (of something or other, I suppose?) - than yep, you are pretty much being racist, sexist and probably other things.

Or just very bad at analogies.
 

deadinside

Full Member
Mar 2, 2024
23
4
If by this analogy with car insurance - where young males RIGHTFULLY AND LAWFULLY pay more than other groups based on the fact that they are demonstrably less safe drivers - you mean to imply that other ethnicities, genders and nationalities actually do present some higher risk (of something or other, I suppose?) - than yep, you are pretty much being racist, sexist and probably other things.

Or just very bad at analogies.
I really hate for this to be true. But I have lived on this planet for more than 3 decades and I think I have a general idea of how biased humans can be. I speak this as a brown immigrant living in America. On paper - racism is outlawed. On paper. That's the keyword. Hell, I've experienced more racism FIRST HAND in Canada that in Red states in the US. Now ofcourse, we're getting better as a society on the whole but we're not quite there yet fully. We humans are tribal species and so there will always be a general distrust of the "other".
 

cindyu

Full Member
Mar 21, 2016
28
4
Glad to know that it went smoothly for you. However, I can't help but wonder if you had a passport of a country that requires a visa to travel to Canada. Also, not to be racist or anything, but I think the probability of being sent to secondary increases exponentially if you're not the right ethnicity, gender or nationality.

It's more like how car insurance works. Males aged 18-25 pay more than males aged 35-45, all other things being equal.
This is true by my experience. I'm from a third world country that requires a visa to enter the US, Canada and other developed countries. I've gotten the "you've been selected for a random secondary examination" when I entered the US. That happened twice years ago. I haven't had that any more ever since. But you're right, there is bias indeed. I wouldn't be too worried if I was a US or British passport holder especially if I was white, but as a developing country passport holder I can't help being a bit paranoid at the border. I'm pretty sure border agents are trained to screen travelers based on their country of origin. Someone coming from a known terrorist nation may always get that "random" secondary.

Btw, this is tangential, but we are so worried about entering without valid papers/PR cards and doing everything , hence this whole forum. Meanwhile, millions of people without any papers/ID let alone visas (i.e., illegal immigrants) are being allowed to enter the US and Canada freely. I wonder what you all think about that. I just find it ironic that we are slavishly following all the immigration rules to the t while those people who have no regard for the law are given a lot of concessions... The double standard is mind-boggling...
 
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maxinnz

Member
Sep 9, 2024
11
0
They like to repeat that language but in this case, it is NOT actually at the officer's discretion - the laws and regs read PRs SHALL be admitted if the officer is satisfied they are a PR (that is, your identity). ('Shall' being legislative for 'must.')
...

They don't really seem to play with the being satisfied part.
I might be a bit pedantic here, but to me, that's all that 'satisfied' can possibly mean here – unless there are grounds otherwise, they have to be satisfied – because the matter on which they determine whether they are 'satisfied' (or on which they seem to have discretion) is, solely, whether you have a current PR status; so they are not allowed to say they are not satisfied if you have the current PR status.
 
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maxinnz

Member
Sep 9, 2024
11
0
Always comforting to know the CBSA still aren’t doing their jobs
I'm surprised you say that. As other people mentioned, the right to return is a legal right, not a privilege, on which a border officer does not have 'discretion', though they may do something else after your entry, such as initiating the cancellation process if you have not met the RO.
 

maxinnz

Member
Sep 9, 2024
11
0
A question similar to the OP with a bit of difference – how about if you have not met the RO, with an expired PR card, and a still valid landing paper (or even worse, an expired one)? I presume the answer is the same, and that the officer will have ready access to your current status at their fingertips. Would appreciate any thoughts or experience.

More specifically, would a VoS (verification of status) be required? I believe not, because your current status should be readily available to the border officer.
 

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A question similar to the OP with a bit of difference – how about if you have not met the RO, with an expired PR card, and a still valid landing paper (or even worse, an expired one)? I presume the answer is the same, and that the officer will have ready access to your current status at their fingertips. Would appreciate any thoughts or experience.

More specifically, would a VoS (verification of status) be required? I believe not, because your current status should be readily available to the border officer.
You don't need VoS. You can re-enter through a land border with an expired PR card / landing papers. If you do not meet RO, there is of course a chance you will be reported. However you will be allowed in regardless.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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... and a still valid landing paper (or even worse, an expired one)?
Someone who has an expired PR card and/or is not in compliance with the RO no longer has a 'valid' landing paper - but neither does it ever expire, once landed. After landing, the (signed, dated by CBSA) COPR is a record of landing. An historical document.

It does help establish that the individual was a PR, and therefore probably still one (not that many actually lose PR status), and provides the info necessary to look the person up in the CBSA/IRCC databases. (There are some much older records of individuals that may not be in the databases, but by now fairly rare).

So if the individual has that doc, and the databases don't show that the individual lost PR status (renounced/revoked), all that remains is for the individual to provide reasonable identification (that they are the person in the COPR/landing record). That basically meets any reasonable standard for demonstrating that one is a PR - and shall be admitted.

Granted, they might ask lots of questions of someone not in the databases (esp if PR file very old, since likely means very out of compliance) and spend some time confirming identity.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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I'm surprised you say that. As other people mentioned, the right to return is a legal right, not a privilege, on which a border officer does not have 'discretion', though they may do something else after your entry, such as initiating the cancellation process if you have not met the RO.
I believe the comment was precisely about not reporting the individual for non-compliance (in the specific case mentioned, almost no time in Canada); it was not about admitting the person.

The distinction you make about 'after' entry is meaningless, the interviewing and report happens at the port of entry.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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I might be a bit pedantic here, but to me, that's all that 'satisfied' can possibly mean here – unless there are grounds otherwise, they have to be satisfied – because the matter on which they determine whether they are 'satisfied' (or on which they seem to have discretion) is, solely, whether you have a current PR status; so they are not allowed to say they are not satisfied if you have the current PR status.
Yes, you're being pedantic, that's exactly what I meant.

My last sentence is simply addressing that some people worry that the 'satisfaction' test is subjective or arbitrary, but in this case, it most certainly is not; if someone is determined to be a PR (have been a PR) and not lost that PR status, they shall be admitted. They may be reported etc, but will still be admitted.
 
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