Totally lost and overwhelmed with application

[pricklypunter]

Hello all, this is my first post, although I have done some reading here over the last week or so.

Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules, but if this post is in the wrong place, mods please feel free to move it to somewhere more appropriate.

My story goes like this:

I arrived in Canada as a visa exempt visitor, i.e, just filled out the little card on the plane and handed it in to the CBSA in Toronto upon arrival from the UK at the end of July. I married my fiancee at the beginning of August. We had been together for around 4 years prior to getting married and became engaged August 2013. We do have evidence, phone records, photos and the like from that period, as well as travel itineraries from when we visited each other. Likewise, we also have evidence of our marriage and subsequent honeymoon.

We are both well behind the curve, as far as I can tell anyway from reading here, for applying for permanent residency for me. Hopefully we are not too late to fix this. My wife will be sponsoring me and I see no real reason why she should not be able to, she earns enough money that we will not need any help from welfare etc. The problem we have is that my visitor status (6 months I believe) runs out at the beginning of January and we have yet to file any permanent residency application. In fact, we have really only got started on the forms over the last couple of days due to time simply slipping away from us coupled with our ignorance of how this whole process works. We have a few dates yet to confirm, but otherwise I think we have our forms pretty much filled out. I just downloaded them and printed them off, the intention being to fill them in and then go online and transpose to the online forms. I did create a CIC account a few days ago in my name for the purpose of making the application.

To complicate matters further for us, we are also both in the middle of a guardianship process for my wife's grand daughter. This has just been dragging on and on and on and although it was supposed to have been all dealt with by now, has been pushed back yet again until early next year. No doubt to allow yet more bureaucracy to creep in and waste everyone's time and money. This is also frustrating me beyond belief, and I'm finding it really hard to maintain focus, however I digress.

The point I'm making is that it is vitally important to us that I stay here in Canada, despite my own stupidity for not looking into matters or taking action on this sooner.

To this end, I have some questions that I'm really hoping can be answered by the more experienced members here:

I have read here that an outland application would be best for time and possible appeal reasons, however, as I don't really have any plans to return to the UK, nor would I particularly want to now that we have begun our new life together, would an inland application be better suited to our circumstances?

I have an elderly Mother back in the UK, should the worst happen, will I be allowed to travel back to the UK for a couple of weeks to attend to things without affecting my application if I apply inland?

I can't imagine myself sitting on my hands for 2 years while this whole debacle plays out, is there some way I can apply to have some sort of temporary work permit granted while awaiting my permanent status so that I can at least contribute to the household?

Do I need to apply for that at the same time as I apply for my permanent residency?

If an outland application would still be the better way for us to approach this, does this mean that I would then need to leave Canada?

Likewise, if we do apply taking the outland route, would I still be able to apply to work here in the interim period while the case is decided?

Given my last minute dash to try and sort this mess, in order to continue to live here with my wife, do I now need to apply for an extension to my visitor status?

Do I need to make this application at the same time as I apply for permanent residency?

Can someone explain how this works, point me in the direction of what forms I need to fill out and submit etc? I have downloaded the IMM5708E and a guide, is this all I need or am I really losing it?

I think that I am misunderstanding what the "Right of Permanent Residency" thing is all about. Is the other process just a sponsorship thing and then I have to also apply for this in order to become a permanent resident?

Do I apply for this at the same time as the sponsorship application?

Can someone explain? Which form do I need? I only remember seeing a fee note thing, not an application form per se.

On the subject of fees, I believe that I have several application processing fees to pay, as follows:

General application $75
My specific application $475
My Wife's application $550
My right of permanent residency $490
Permanent resident card $50

Are these correct?


I guess I'm trying to buy some time for us so that we can get our application for permanent residency sorted and also find a way for me to stay here while we do that.

I apologise for all the obvious newbie questions, but my head is really spinning over this now and I feel like I have lost control of it all. I need some hand holding...

Thank you, I appreciate any and all responses

 

[Ponga]

Welcome!

I only have a few minutes right now, but I'll `get the party started' for you:

1. Definitely submit an OUTLAND application! A recent UK applicant made it through the entire process in about 3 months time...total!

2. An Inland application could be a problem, because if you were to leave and then be denied re-entry into Canada, your application is basically trashed. With an Outland application, your application would continue to be processed if (heaven forbid) you were denied re-entry.

3. There is no way to get a `temporary' work permit with either application, unless you find an employer that is willing to go through the LMIA process, which is doubtful. If you were to apply Inland (but please don't) you wouldn't be eligible for an Open Work Permit for ~ 15 months (based on the current processing times).

4. Yes, if you were to submit an Inland application, you would include the OWP, but again...don't file an Inland application!

5. You can certainly submit an Outland application while you are `visiting' your wife in Canada. You just need to apply (online) to extend your visitor status prior to it expiring, which is easy to do.


The total fees equal $1040

$75 (for your wife to be evaluated as your sponsor)

$475 (your fee)

$490 (RPRF)

The only other fees would be for your medical examination (which can be done in Canada, as long as you use an approved physician, listed on CIC's website) and the cost of your police check (for any country where you have lived for 6 months or longer, since age 18).


Good luck!

 

[andrew-brit]

Wow. I will try and answer all of your questions/concerns.

I have read here that an outland application would be best for time and possible appeal reasons, however, as I don't really have any plans to return to the UK, nor would I particularly want to now that we have begun our new life together, would an inland application be better suited to our circumstances?

You can apply outland even though you are in Canada. All outland means is that your application will (most likely) go to a visa office abroad for stage 2 processing. I say most likely because recently CIC has been processing complete applications in Canada, but that is another story.

I have an elderly Mother back in the UK, should the worst happen, will I be allowed to travel back to the UK for a couple of weeks to attend to things without affecting my application if I apply inland?

If you apply inland and you leave to visit the UK you run the risk of not being allowed in and subsequently your inland application would be denied. If you apply outland you can leave Canada with no fear that your application will be refused/denied.

I can't imagine myself sitting on my hands for 2 years while this whole debacle plays out, is there some way I can apply to have some sort of temporary work permit granted while awaiting my permanent status so that I can at least contribute to the household?

How old are you? There are ways to get a work permit for Canada, some rely on you being under 30 (for UK citizens), some require a LMIA from a Canadian employer. LMIA's are hard to get. However, if you apply outland your application could be approved in no time at all (6-8 months is the average right now).

Do I need to apply for that at the same time as I apply for my permanent residency?

This depends on the type of visa/scheme you go for. CIC does not care if you are on a work permit in Canada, or just visiting. I myself am "visiting" and will continue to do so until I get PR.

If an outland application would still be the better way for us to approach this, does this mean that I would then need to leave Canada?

No. You can stay as a visitor until you get PR. Just keep your visitor status (extend it if necessary, costs $100).

Likewise, if we do apply taking the outland route, would I still be able to apply to work here in the interim period while the case is decided?

Again this depends on if you are successful in applying for a visa/scheme, but as I said if you did work it would not impact your application.

Given my last minute dash to try and sort this mess, in order to continue to live here with my wife, do I now need to apply for an extension to my visitor status?

Yes. Apply before it runs out. While you wait for a decision you are on implied status (if a decision has not been made before they issue you a new visitor record). It takes about a month for them to reach a decision. Being a UK citizen it should be fairly easy to extend.

Do I need to make this application at the same time as I apply for permanent residency?

No. For a visa extension you can apply online. For PR you cannot. They go to different offices. I notice you mentioned creating an online account but be aware that for a PR application you must submit the application by mail.

Can someone explain how this works, point me in the direction of what forms I need to fill out and submit etc? I have downloaded the IMM5708E and a guide, is this all I need or am I really losing it?

See my post here for a recent explanation.

I think that I am misunderstanding what the "Right of Permanent Residency" thing is all about. Is the other process just a sponsorship thing and then I have to also apply for this in order to become a permanent resident?

No, all forms are sent together at the same time. My link above explains this but in a nutshell your spouse completes the sponsor forms and you complete the applicant forms, and then all of it gets sent to Mississauga together.

Fees

The total you need to pay is $1040.

 

[sam_1985]

I would second what Ponga said; IMHO, I wonder what the benefit of an inland Application would be if you can apply Outland while still being in Canada; Outland is so much faster and has appeal rights just in case your application was denied. Inland does not have any appeal rights and you cannot leave Canada while the Stage-1 (Sponsor Approval) is being processed and if you do you run a high risk of being denied entry back into Canada should you have to leave for emergencies etc... and if you were denied then the whole inland application (no matter how long you are into the Stage-1 - current processing time is 15 months) is down the drain and you are back to square one.

Given that you might need to return to the U.K at some point if god forbid the need arises then you can with an Outland application. Therefore you should definitely go Outland. Couple of suggestions:
1. Try and apply for the Sponsorship before applying for the extension and include proof (fees payment) with the extension application that you have launched your Sponsorship process.
2. If you don't think you will be ready to apply by the time your visitor status expires then still apply for the extension but make sure you mention that you are applying for Sponsorship very shortly (my opinion... other people, plz advise if you think otherwise)
3. Make sure you apply for the extension 30 days before the expiry of your current visitor status and do it online as it is quicker; however, for any reason, if you choose to do it on paper, then you will on Implied status until the decision is made even if it is past the expiry of your current visitor status.

Ponga has broken the fees down nicely for you... otherwise, as he suggested, definitely go Outland because I have seen people get approved in three months (the whole process); applications are being kept in Mississauga for Stage-2 as well for many London - U.K applicants and things are moving fast... I am myself being sponsored by my husband and I am a U.K citizen on a visit here... he was approved as a Sponsor and application was sent to London (U.K) - I wasn't lucky enough to be kept in Mississauga... haha... but in any case, it seems London (U.K) is finalizing within 6-8 months even though the posted time is 11 months.... I will be applying for a Visitor Extension myself...Unfortunately, with Outland, you can't get an Open Work Permit; the only way is to have a job lined up and the employer willing to go through the whole process otherwise it's indeed a bummer that you essentially can't work while waiting for the process to be completed.... but hopefully you do get processed within three months like many

Please relax... we are all in it together and stick to this forum but don't become paranoid either ...lol Everything will be just fine... there is a London Outland Spreadhseet (search this forum) or look at Britishexpats.com to get an idea on the timeline!!

All the best Hope this helps!

 

[Ponga]

I would second what Ponga said; IMHO, I wonder what the benefit of an inland Application would be if you can apply Outland while still being in Canada;

IMHO, the only person that should file an Inland application is someone that:

Does not have legal status (and is beyond the 90 day Restoration of Status period).

Or

Their foreign visa office has a processing time far longer than the Inland processing.

 

[pricklypunter]

Thanks folks, I really appreciate the help and support. I'm almost at my wits end with it all to be honest. Your advice basically confirms then that an outbound application is the way for us to go, I'm pretty sure those were the forms that I already downloaded. In the meantime I have filled out the IMM5708E form to hopefully have my visit extended. I will apply online tomorrow. However, before I submit this, I have a question regarding it, if someone could help clarify my thoughts. What period should/ can I ask for? Another 6 Months, 1 Year or is there an actual time limit? There's no mention of a limit on the form that I remember, but I'm thinking as a visitor, the normal period of 6 Months from date of entry will apply in any case.

@ Andrew, I'm 46, my wife is 41, so no chance of the young'uns pass, however, I could knit jumpers and stuff for 6 Months in order to get ready for the winter here next year, it's brrrr already

I was mistakenly under the impression from the CIC site that I could apply for the PR online, at least that's what I thought they meant, hence creating the account. Oh well, I'll need it anyway to make the extension application, so I guess it will be useful after all.

@ ponga, I got the fees from here: cic.gc.ca/english/information/fees/fees.asp#permanent

In section 3, under Spouse or Common-Law Partner in Canada, I assumed that as it listed the Principal Applicant which I took to mean me and Spouse which I took to mean my wife, that these were separate fees that we had to pay. So if that $550 is not payable for our application, what does it relate to exactly?

Anyway, thanks folks, I'm beginning to relax a little more about it all


Oh, I forgot to add that for reasons that are unfathomable to me, I practically had to beg to get a police records check done by the RCMP a couple of weeks ago. I had to get this done previously anyway, as part of the guardianship process, and had it done in the UK last year, but it took a while. Unfortunately, the powers that be have messed around for so long, that it will now be out of the date range required when things do finally make it to court early next year. Therefore, I needed a new one in a timely fashion, hence going to the RCMP this time. However, after a long conversation and much ado about nothing, I happened to mention my immigration application to them. To my complete surprise they instantly said, oh that's different, we can do that for you and it doesn't cost you anything. Even though it was supposed to cost me $60 or something like that if they had done as I asked to begin with. The upshot was that even after much begging, they could not do the records check for me because I had no official Canadian issued photo ID or some other excuse, but they were happy to take my fingerprints and my photo for immigration purposes, free of charge. Now this may be a Provincial service, provided out of courtesy by the RCMP here, I'm not sure, but it does beg raise the question in my mind, of how long it would have taken them, if I had stood in front of a shop window swinging a brick. I'm betting 20 minutes

 

[andrew-brit]

However, before I submit this, I have a question regarding it, if someone could help clarify my thoughts. What period should/ can I ask for? Another 6 Months, 1 Year or is there an actual time limit? There's no mention of a limit on the form that I remember, but I'm thinking as a visitor, the normal period of 6 Months from date of entry will apply in any case.

You can ask for as much time as you like. As I said before because you are a UK citizen CIC is very likely to extend your visitor record. You should ask for enough time to cover the whole application process. Ask for a year (assuming you send in your PR application close to the beginning of the new validity).

Personally I have renewed my visitor record twice this year, perhaps mistakenly twice for 6 months each. I could have asked for a year but did not.

Oh, I forgot to add that for reasons that are unfathomable to me, I practically had to beg to get a police records check done by the RCMP a couple of weeks ago.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but police clearance certificates are not required. The below text is from applicant guide - the Police certificates section.

These documents are to be provided for each country other than Canada, in which you have lived for six (6) consecutive months or longer since reaching the age of 18.

CIC will do their own checks on you, so you do not need to include a PCC for Canada. You only need to include a PCC for any country in which you have lived in for six consecutive months or longer since reaching the age of 18.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

In section 3, under Spouse or Common-Law Partner in Canada, I assumed that as it listed the Principal Applicant which I took to mean me and Spouse which I took to mean my wife, that these were separate fees that we had to pay. So if that $550 is not payable for our application, what does it relate to exactly?

That fee only applies when a person sponsors a family member AND that family member's spouse, i.e. sponsoring one's parents.

 

[pricklypunter]

@ Andrew, thanks for clarifying that, I'll change my form and ask for 1 Year from the date my current status runs out.

Crap, I'll need to apply to the ACPO in the UK for the records check again?

@ canuck, thanks for the explanation, makes much more sense now.

It's obviously a legal langauge thing but I swear you need a secret squirrel decoder handbook to fathom out what they are asking for

 

[Kayaker]

Thanks folks, I really appreciate the help and support. I'm almost at my wits end with it all to be honest. Your advice basically confirms then that an outbound application is the way for us to go, I'm pretty sure those were the forms that I already downloaded. In the meantime I have filled out the IMM5708E form to hopefully have my visit extended. I will apply online tomorrow. However, before I submit this, I have a question regarding it, if someone could help clarify my thoughts. What period should/ can I ask for? Another 6 Months, 1 Year or is there an actual time limit? There's no mention of a limit on the form that I remember, but I'm thinking as a visitor, the normal period of 6 Months from date of entry will apply in any case.

Many people ask for extensions of 1 year (I did) and get it. You do need to show some bank statements or proof of funds. If your spouse is going to support you, a letter from her would be good as well. I have heard of cases where people got less time than they asked for (asked for 2 years, got only 1) and I have heard of people asking for over 1 year (such as 18 months or 2 years) so I guess you could ask for longer than you think you need.

 

[chris1302]

hey guys quick question.

My husband is here on a visitor visa which expires Dec 17, we did however send an visitor extension on November 16th, we are still waiting for a response. However in the meantime we would like to apply for spousal sponsorship, hopefully outland. I want him to remain in canada during the process. So question is can I apply outland even though he has not yet received his extension? or should i apply inland to be safe becuase from what I understand he then gets the implied status because I will send the OWP with the inland application.
It dosen't matter if he has to remain in canada while waiting for inland app to be approved.

Any suggestions out there??
thanks

 

[Kayaker]

hey guys quick question.

My husband is here on a visitor visa which expires Dec 17, we did however send an visitor extension on November 16th, we are still waiting for a response. However in the meantime we would like to apply for spousal sponsorship, hopefully outland. I want him to remain in canada during the process. So question is can I apply outland even though he has not yet received his extension? or should i apply inland to be safe becuase from what I understand he then gets the implied status because I will send the OWP with the inland application.
It dosen't matter if he has to remain in canada while waiting for inland app to be approved.

Any suggestions out there??
thanks

Yes, you can apply Outland even though you have not yet received the visitor extension. (It takes about 4 or 5 weeks.)

In the vast majority of cases (depends where your husband is from) your husband will get complete PR in less time than it takes him to get OWP, so only in extreme circumstances does it make sense for him to apply Inland.

 

[chris1302]

thanks for your quick reply.
So if i send outland application, he also gets the implied status in canada? What if they deny him his visa extension whats happens then?
He is from croatia, Vienna is the office. (I am a canadian citizen, we have been together for 10 yrs married for 2, so it shouldn't be a problem but I am paranoid) I was living in croatia for the past 10 yrs, and came back a couple of months ago.



Thanks again.

 

[Kayaker]

thanks for your quick reply.
So if i send outland application, he also gets the implied status in canada? What if they deny him his visa extension whats happens then?
He is from croatia, Vienna is the office. (I am a canadian citizen, we have been together for 10 yrs married for 2, so it shouldn't be a problem but I am paranoid) I was living in croatia for the past 10 yrs, and came back a couple of months ago.
Thanks again.

No, there is no implied status for Outland applications. Denial of a visa extension is very rare. (While an outright denial is rare (never heard of it) it can happen that an applicant gets less time than they asked for. For example, someone asked for 2 years but only got 1. But if that's the case, you can apply for another extension.) If an extension is denied and it is already past December 17, he can apply for a "restoration of status" within 90 days.

 

[chris1302]

ok well thank you for that, so I guess I should send the outland then, and if visa gets denied (should not though) we can re send for that restoration visa, just want to double check.

Should we sned the medical right away? Since my husband is in Canada he will be getting it done here, that is ok right?