This digusts me...

[angelbrat]

I have recently been approached by an Indian immigration consultant, user name bawaiis. As I work for a reputable company in Canada, who are currently sponsoring 2 employees through the PNP route, he requested that I apply for PNP nomination for his Indian clients and I would be paid for this. He got my contact details through this forum.

Firstly, I am NEVER going to employ someone I have never met or interviewed. There is no way, that any honest employer will offer sponsorship without a great deal of time invested in making sure the employee is perfect for the job vacancy.

I will be reporting this to CIC and the PNP offices. Making sure that they realize that some Indian applicants are paying for
the PNP nomination. I am disgusted and in disbelief, that despite all the information available, that Indian consultants can still try and scam their clients into Canada for money.

 

[letina]

I support honesty is the best policy! When i posted on a forum that I am interested in PNP, some agents contact me and offered "jobs for money" and guarantee that I will able to get the PR if I am willing to pay, this is digusting and horrible, many people are trying so hard to go in through the official door and yet some people are relying on cheating and lying to pave their way through Canada, they will damage Canada if they are allowed to get into this country

 

[bawaiis]

Gentleman, there's nothing like disgusting. I don't have to give you list of names of CSIC members in Canada who openly charge for the process. Pick up any Asian CSIC member from the CSIC site and call him introducing yourself as a freelance consultant in Canada who shall refer some clients from India in return of some "share" and see what they say.

As far as I am concerned, I DID NOT offer you any money. Please read the post properly. I wrote I shall pay you the expense (if any). Here I meant, any govt fees or documentation, revenue charge - courier or whatsoever - that you may have to pay to get the process done. I am very well aware that even $2 short amount is recovered in the next transaction by a Canadian CSIC member. Some even charge from $50-$150 to conduct consultation session for 30-60 mins. Taking these points into consideration, if I thought that you might ask for expenses, then where am I wrong?
Ofcourse, I would be charging some fee from the client post-PNP approval process which do you think I shouldn't?

 

[Leon]

All consultants charge for their services. The question is what is a "normal" fee for those services and when is an AEO "bought" and when isn't it?

If a consultant approaches your company and asks you if you need workers because he has some Indian clients who want to immigrate, a normal process would be that you interview his clients and then you apply for their AEO if you want them. I do not know if there is any law against the consultant to offer to pay you for the time it takes you to apply for the AEO so that you are not out any money. After all, the workers have no obligation to come and work for you when they arrive in Canada. You could be out the work and money and they will look for a better paying job when they come or decide to go move to a sexier city than where you live.

An abnormal process would be to agree with the consultant that you apply for an AEO for a person you have never talked to and do not really plan to hire and that you and the consultant then split the fee that he is charging the client. From what I have heard, AEO's can be sold for up to $10,000.

 

[bawaiis]

"AEOs are being sold for $$$$$$$$". That's what I have heard Leon. Let me be open. Here in India, the CSIC members who have their own branch or the representatives who are associated directly with a CSIC member, charge anywhere between $15000-$25000 for AEO/PNP process. Since not all applicants qualify under FSW 29 category program, majority of them opt for either AEO or PNP under employer stream program for which an offer letter and AEO/PNP approval is very much required. It is here the CSIC members charge high saying they have to "incur" money to get PNP/AEO. I was wondering what amount they should be "incurring" to get these two documents making them demand such a high amount. I approached few local agents here who quoted me the above price. I tried to have a direct tie-up with few CSIC members who quoted me their charges anywhere between $12000 - $20000. In both the cases, they said that for AEO process, the job will not be guaranteed. They literally sign a disclaimer from the clients wherein it is mentioned that the client will not insist on getting the same job which was offered to him by a Canadian employer.

In order to cut down the amount 'incurred' by the consultants in Canada and ultimately benefiting the applicants, I was looking for some recruiting companies/employers who are in need of people. I just wanted them to get the AEO/LMO/PNP approvals and the rest process to be carried on by myself as I have good processing knowledge by charging normal fee of $500-$1000. Ofcourse, I asked 'angelbrat' (he mentioned in one of the posts that he is an employer who has sponsored 2 persons) if he is in need of any other person for any other department and willing to employ from overseas. The action from his side would have been a "yes" or "no'. If yes, then resume forwarding, interview, offer letter, Nomination approval etc would have gone stage by stage. I have worked with Canadians and Australians and so I am aware how much particular they are in money matters. They would neither ask for more nor will they accept less than the amount finalized in advance. They would definitely demand a small amount of $2 - $5 if it excesses the actual amount and same is recovered in next transaction. Even a local courier bill of $10-$100 or for clients document transferring is charged separately. I appreciate such tactics and with point of view of such tactics, I told him that I am ready to pay him the expenses by adding ‘if any’ into bracket. This gentleman ‘angelbrat’ took my offer in wrong sense alleging me of offering him money.

Friends, I leave it on you all to decide whether I tried to “buy job” from ‘angelbret’ or it was mere a business proposal?

 

[Leon]

Another thing is that in many provinces, it is against the law to bill people to find them a job. When an employment agency places a TFW for example, they charge money to the employer for taking care of the paperwork but they are not actually allowed to charge the worker. These agencies will however charge TFWs for other thing like helping them write a Canadian style CV etc. but it should by no means be thousands of $. What agencies do in other countries though is a different matter. It is much harder for Canadian authorities to deal with that and people who are desperate to immigrate to Canada will often be thankful that they can buy an AEO and get their PR as opposed to not getting PR at all.

 

[Reddy Facts]

"AEOs are being sold for $$$$$$$$". That's what I have heard Leon. Let me be open. Here in India, the CSIC members who have their own branch or the representatives who are associated directly with a CSIC member, charge anywhere between $15000-$25000 for AEO/PNP process. Since not all applicants qualify under FSW 29 category program, majority of them opt for either AEO or PNP under employer stream program for which an offer letter and AEO/PNP approval is very much required. It is here the CSIC members charge high saying they have to "incur" money to get PNP/AEO. I was wondering what amount they should be "incurring" to get these two documents making them demand such a high amount. I approached few local agents here who quoted me the above price. I tried to have a direct tie-up with few CSIC members who quoted me their charges anywhere between $12000 - $20000. In both the cases, they said that for AEO process, the job will not be guaranteed. They literally sign a disclaimer from the clients wherein it is mentioned that the client will not insist on getting the same job which was offered to him by a Canadian employer.

In order to cut down the amount 'incurred' by the consultants in Canada and ultimately benefiting the applicants, I was looking for some recruiting companies/employers who are in need of people. I just wanted them to get the AEO/LMO/PNP approvals and the rest process to be carried on by myself as I have good processing knowledge by charging normal fee of $500-$1000. Ofcourse, I asked 'angelbrat' (he mentioned in one of the posts that he is an employer who has sponsored 2 persons) if he is in need of any other person for any other department and willing to employ from overseas. The action from his side would have been a "yes" or "no'. If yes, then resume forwarding, interview, offer letter, Nomination approval etc would have gone stage by stage. I have worked with Canadians and Australians and so I am aware how much particular they are in money matters. They would neither ask for more nor will they accept less than the amount finalized in advance. They would definitely demand a small amount of $2 - $5 if it excesses the actual amount and same is recovered in next transaction. Even a local courier bill of $10-$100 or for clients document transferring is charged separately. I appreciate such tactics and with point of view of such tactics, I told him that I am ready to pay him the expenses by adding ‘if any' into bracket. This gentleman ‘angelbrat' took my offer in wrong sense alleging me of offering him money.

Friends, I leave it on you all to decide whether I tried to “buy job” from ‘angelbret' or it was mere a business proposal?

In short what you are telling is that the agents facilitate malpractices. For those who are not qualified for FSW are asked to exploit loopholes. This is just a basic service.

The overseas counterpart will provide fake experience letters, fake diploma, fake degrees all for a fee.

Who are the ones who are affected? The genuine candidates those who are deserving are waiting in long immigration lines. The ones who are not qualified are bribing their employers and the deserving ones have to flip burgers and drive cabs.

I hope CIC Canada is reading this forum and cracks down on the crooks and puts a stop on the immigration loopholes.

If not Canada will be full of immigrant scumbags.

 

[Reddy Facts]

Another thing is that in many provinces, it is against the law to bill people to find them a job. When an employment agency places a TFW for example, they charge money to the employer for taking care of the paperwork but they are not actually allowed to charge the worker. These agencies will however charge TFWs for other thing like helping them write a Canadian style CV etc. but it should by no means be thousands of $. What agencies do in other countries though is a different matter. It is much harder for Canadian authorities to deal with that and people who are desperate to immigrate to Canada will often be thankful that they can buy an AEO and get their PR as opposed to not getting PR at all.

Well-said Leon. No deserving candidate will pay a recruiter for getting a job. Its not a universal norm, but its seen in most first world countries that the employer pays the recruiter for the employment expenses and search fees. Not the other way around.

 

[goolti]

If you find some interesting company, good or bad, please start reporting it on

goolti.com

 

[rjessome]

"AEOs are being sold for $$$$$$$$". That's what I have heard Leon. Let me be open. Here in India, the CSIC members who have their own branch or the representatives who are associated directly with a CSIC member, charge anywhere between $15000-$25000 for AEO/PNP process. Since not all applicants qualify under FSW 29 category program, majority of them opt for either AEO or PNP under employer stream program for which an offer letter and AEO/PNP approval is very much required. It is here the CSIC members charge high saying they have to "incur" money to get PNP/AEO. I was wondering what amount they should be "incurring" to get these two documents making them demand such a high amount. I approached few local agents here who quoted me the above price. I tried to have a direct tie-up with few CSIC members who quoted me their charges anywhere between $12000 - $20000. In both the cases, they said that for AEO process, the job will not be guaranteed. They literally sign a disclaimer from the clients wherein it is mentioned that the client will not insist on getting the same job which was offered to him by a Canadian employer.

The practice of buying and selling AEOs is currently under investigation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/12/13/immigration-jobs-british-columbia-consultant.html

Leon is right, paying a recruiter or an employer for a job offer is illegal.

In order to cut down the amount 'incurred' by the consultants in Canada and ultimately benefiting the applicants, I was looking for some recruiting companies/employers who are in need of people. I just wanted them to get the AEO/LMO/PNP approvals and the rest process to be carried on by myself as I have good processing knowledge by charging normal fee of $500-$1000. Ofcourse, I asked 'angelbrat' (he mentioned in one of the posts that he is an employer who has sponsored 2 persons) if he is in need of any other person for any other department and willing to employ from overseas. The action from his side would have been a "yes" or "no'. If yes, then resume forwarding, interview, offer letter, Nomination approval etc would have gone stage by stage. I have worked with Canadians and Australians and so I am aware how much particular they are in money matters. They would neither ask for more nor will they accept less than the amount finalized in advance. They would definitely demand a small amount of $2 - $5 if it excesses the actual amount and same is recovered in next transaction. Even a local courier bill of $10-$100 or for clients document transferring is charged separately. I appreciate such tactics and with point of view of such tactics, I told him that I am ready to pay him the expenses by adding ‘if any' into bracket. This gentleman ‘angelbrat' took my offer in wrong sense alleging me of offering him money.

Friends, I leave it on you all to decide whether I tried to “buy job” from ‘angelbret' or it was mere a business proposal?

Unless you are a registered CSIC member or Canadian lawyer, YOU are not legally allowed to be a representative in the process. However, you could work as an agent who refers qualified individuals to representatives where you would get paid ONLY IF the applicants met the requirements of the immigration process/program for which they are applying. But you would be paid by the Consultant or Lawyer, not by the applicant. Recruiters do not charge money for the types of processes you are discussing. At least not ethical recruiters. Those costs would be absorbed by the recruiter as they would/should be getting paid by the employer to find them a candidate. Most recruitment firms work on a contingency basis and the fees paid by the employer can be significant depending upon the position and salary.

Sadly, this is an area where fraud and illegal/questionable practices are rampant. CIC is going to look over this process is more depth and once Bill C-35 comes into force, I expect that prosecutions will be more widespread in Canada. That's my hope anyway.

 

[Baloo]

Canada lays charges in massive immigration fraud.

I really like the penalties - "five years in prison and a fine of CAN$100,000 for each count, if convicted".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110302/wl_canada_afp/canadaimmigrationjustice_20110302233745


Has the government decided to change the industry regulator (by removing the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants from the role) ?

 

[rjessome]

Has the government decided to change the industry regulator (by removing the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants from the role) ?

The government has accepted and reviewed proposals to appoint a new regulator and an announcement is due any day. Fingers crossed!!!

 

[Baloo]

The government has accepted and reviewed proposals to appoint a new regulator and an announcement is due any day. Fingers crossed!!!

Let's hope so.


What we need now, are financial penalties for individual Canadians who are implicated in fraudulent immigration activity.
MOC's spring to mind as a place to start.

 

[rjessome]

Let's hope so.


What we need now, are financial penalties for individual Canadians who are implicated in fraudulent immigration activity.
MOC's spring to mind as a place to start.

That will be included in Bill C-35.

■on conviction on indictment, a maximum fine of $100,000 or a maximum term of imprisonment of two years, or both; or
■on summary conviction, a maximum fine of $20,000 or a maximum term of imprisonment of six months, or both.

See this link for what the Bill will do when implemented.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Sites/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/Bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c35&source=library_prb&Parl=40&Ses=3#a23

 

[Baloo]

I will take a look.

I was hoping for sponsors who commit fraud to be penalized.
I know, a difficult one to prove.