The reality of getting a job through LMIA?

[mf4361]

Again it totally depends. The jobs for which people get LMIA's approved easily and genuinely - just do not have QUALIFIED applicants.

It doesn't matter how many resumes (150) or more are submitted unless they contain the specialized experience they are looking for. It doesn't say that those people aren't capable or worth evaluating. Just that they are not looking for the particular experience.

P.S. I came to Canada on an LMIA based work permit some 2 years ago. I didn't even apply (recruitment team of my employer reached out). There are several people here from different parts of the world. My company's website to this date - on average has around 5-7 job postings - listed throughout the year, in the areas i mentioned earlier.
From the day i first saw openings - to date, i have never seem this count drop to zero. Just that roles keep getting filled and new ones with similar or different profiles open up.

And yes - not all of them (but few are definitely) open to international LMIA based hiring. If some is interested and qualified, here is the link
http://gonorthforge.com/careers/openings/

yes i meant 150 qualified resumes. those aren't qualified won't even get passed the screening filter of Saskjob site.

 

[fkl]

Then our definition of qualified varies greatly or may be it would vary substantially based upon profession.

I can only speak about mine. Any job site like filter (such as that of Saskjob) could barely check that for instance you at least have a bachelors degree in the relevant profession. May be at least one year of experience and that's it.

It's very hard to quantify experience and profile of some one at least in IT without actually interviewing / evaluating them. So with no disrespect and only positive intentions, i would call a job site filter bare minimum and not of much significance.

Bottom line still is, if you have a skill / experience that is needed and hard to find here (and hence cannot possibly have so many applicants) then you can get LMIA based job. Otherwise, it is a long shot. If we look at CIC's mandate of temp foreign worker program, it is exactly that.

 

[mrazzak]

Couple of things, an LMIA application including a work permit is $1000. the employer needs to pay this, you can't. LMIA applications are extremely detailed, need a lot of work to them, transition plans, proof of advertising for 4 weeks (adverts need to stay up for the entire process), who applied, who was interviewed, why they weren't suitable, why you are, where the job is, the pay needs to meet a certain level and how the employer plans to help the foreign worker integrate. The employer will be audited as part of this.
Keep in mind, LMIA applications have a very high refusal rate, its definitely over 50%, I've heard it is about 70% but that could be wrong. So it's a lot of work and money for something that in all likelihood will be declined and that's why a lot of employers don't particularly want to do them and will only do it if they genuinely can't find a Canadian.
The ones I've heard of being approved are for people in trades, Canada has a lack of tradespeople and needs foreigners to do that work. There are a lot of IT people, especially in cities. You'd need to have someone who's basically willing to write a job specification that describes you to a T; so no one else can match it or find a job in a more remote area (Canadians don't seem to like moving around for work).

All that being said, its not impossible and I would encourage you to come and meet employers and see what they say; I don't work in the IT industry, I'm just telling you what I know of the LMIA application process.

thoughts on the process: its weighted more towards professionals and workers that Canada needs. If you get an LMIA its because they've proven they can't get a Canadian and need you. Can't blame them for trying to close the gaps where unskilled people were getting in.
beyond the people they need, its weighted towards the people they feel will be able to contribute most to Canada and integrate best - age, language skills etc.
so they want first and foremost, the people with skills they need. secondly, young educated people who will contribute to the economy rather than (potentially) being a drain on social care/health systems in the near future. Which makes sense as far as an immigration policy goes

You are absolutely spot on about the LMIA process. I started working in a large MNC manufacturing industry as an mid level engineer back in 2014 on open work permit. As soon as my work experience hit 1 year , I went for CEC PR application. Unfortunately, my application was sent back due the cap being filed. Then I went for EE PR application and got the ITA in March and applied. Unfortunately my open work permit was about to expire while my EE application was being processed. My employer went for the LMIA application to keep me working. If my employer has to hire someone with LMIA application, they would have never go for that. First of all, the application is lengthy and expensive, my employer paid 20K $ to the lawyer just to start the whole proceeding apart from continuous support from the HR department. If I have to guess without putting much complication, I would guess no employer would risk that without confirmation of payback latter. Said that, even the lawyer suggested me to be prepared for negative results, as Service Canada is rejecting almost 80-90% of the LMIA application for mid level position. The main reason he described as the economy being in the down turn.

I am not discouraging anyone but just describing the reality. Lower level jobs have more chance of getting LMIA approved than the mid level one.

 

[number411]

Ruining some one's life by bringing them here first, spending several years not getting a job in their exact domain / of equivalent experience is a much bigger problem compared to just not being selected for PR while sitting in home country.

There are many good answers and advice in this thread, but this stands apart.

 

[elAleman]

very good topic! I got many information's from this thread. Thanks to all.


Do I understand right: it seems that with an existing job offer it is better to apply to the PNP instead of the LMIA?

 

[fkl]

very good topic! I got many information's from this thread. Thanks to all.


Do I understand right: it seems that with an existing job offer it is better to apply to the PNP instead of the LMIA?

It totally depends upon the actual job offer.

LMIA is for jobs for which they really couldn't find Canadians. I don't follow the logic of lower vs mid level jobs (how would you even set the boundary).

Simply put if you have skills / profile for a role in which the employer couldn't find Canadians, the employer would for LMIA, else not. It might be harder to get LMIA approved for a non skilled job since that is abused often and much easier for a senior / specialized skilled position.

 

[ValCanada]

Hi Marcus,

I could shed some light on this being an LMIA based software job holder who was recruited from overseas. I work for a company which regularly hires people from all over the world. We have around 30% people recruited this way.

However, IT IS ONLY tied to very specialized IT experience. e.g. i work in multicore network processors - a specific family whose experience is important in my employer's business. For most other common IT roles, my employer hires locally.

Every thing mentioned about LMIA process by others is true. You have to advertise and prove that No qualified Canadians were available for the role. Plus more recently fee was increased as well as the requirements.

One important thing missed among other posts is that LMIA requirements, needs and processing times vary by province some what. In my case, the province is Quebec (although we have office in Ottawa as well).

Toronto in general is a bad place to look for any kind of job as a prospective / current immigrant. Opportunities in IT might be slightly better but there are scores of existing people on PR status looking for jobs with degrees and experience in IT.

So you must have

a) a special skill in IT which practically wont have issues proving to government that no suitable Canadians are available when it really is the truth
b) that is badly needed by an established employer

in order to consider the LMIA route.

The core of IT industry in Canada is around Vancouver, Ottawa or Kitchener / Waterloo region.

It is worth mentioning that LMIA is the biggest hurdle EVEN when you are in Canada already working - for switching jobs. It is a painful process which very few employers are willing to undergo. So the factor is elevated if you are remote.

Lastly, if you are skilled and have proven experience / expertise in either of Network function virtualization, Open stack or broad-com switch programming, ping me.


UPDATE:

Oh, and to the general audience ranting about EE preferring those with jobs and that being unfair, i don't have time for a long debate - but here is a quick key point.

Canada has more skilled people at the moment compared to jobs. On top of this, Canadian experience outweighs most other elements unless you really have a skill for which there are no Canadians. Reality is that it is easier to get immigration than to get a first decent job in your own profession.

There are too many horror stories - so CIC is attempting to prevent that from happening which i believe they should have done much earlier. Though it is true that having a Canadian education and being fresh out of university here makes it easier to find a job.

Ruining some one's life by bringing them here first, spending several years not getting a job in their exact domain / of equivalent experience is a much bigger problem compared to just not being selected for PR while sitting in home country.

And remember this is coming from some one who didn't have to face this at all luckily. But i am in no illusion about the ground realities around me otherwise.

What a great explanation!

I just opened my EE profile and as happened to Marcus, I don't reach at least 400 points, even when the tool said I reached the selection criteria. And if you try to get a PNP, they say you need to have at least 400 points to apply for it. So, nothing seems to help me.

So, having read Marcus first post and the subsequented replies, I really want to know what was his decision. Marcus, did you move to Canada? did you manage to find a solution to get a work permission?

I just want to know to make a decision, either to keep trying or to move on and forget this.

 

[_Aspirant]

Anybody who is working in the field of Automation and Robotics? What are the chances of getting LMIA backed Job Offer in this domain?

Thanks

 

[dsr]

I have done some research among my friends and over internet and sadly found very few instances where people actually got PR because some employer in canada filed LMIA for them. One of my colleague has applied EOI in March 2015 and it has been over a year since and yet he is not able to convince a single employer in Canada to get LMIA approval for him. Btw, he works in IT industry and precisely works in a very niche technology so ideally he hoped to grab at least a couple of offers over this duration. Sadly reality seems to be different. The only people who are getting through EE are the ones who already are working in Canada on jobs with LMIA approval OR their spouses are working in Canada OR they have relatives in Canada etc. Situation looks pretty grim for people sitting outside Canada and searching job online. I feel Job Bank is not very effective.

Hi All,

Does anybody know what the reality is of getting a job in the Toronto IT market for a UK citizen requiring a LMIA?
I am an IT Solutions Architect (NOC 2173). I have just lead several cloud migration projects for the 2nd largest retailer in the UK.
I am towards the top of my field on a good salary.
I have 394 points for EE.
I am 37. I have a degree in Maths. I have full points on IELTS. I cannot improve my score.
I am not the sort of person that will sit around and hope that the draw goes down.
This process is obviously heavily weighted towards people who get offered work in Canada.
The very fact that you get 600 points for a LMIA approved job shows that all other educational, age, and experience factors are actually irrelevant in comparison to this.
If you get a LMIA approved job you get 600 points and you get PR. That is clearly the design.
So the CIC obviously wants the onus to be on the employers to grant LMIAs, but what is the reality of this actually happening?
In the brief few weeks that I have been contacting Toronto recruiters and employers regarding the LMIA process I have not got very far.
I am planning on just going to Toronto next month to start looking for work.
Does anyone have any first-hand experience of trying to secure a job and needing the employer to go through the LMIA process?

Thanks

Marcus

P.S: (My views on the process)...
From the outside it seems that the CIC wants the onus to be on employers to offer jobs via LMIAs, so they may keep the points needed to be drawn for EE artificially high by drawing less people, which then forces people like me to try and get a job via LMIA.
But it also seems that employers are not really geared up to go through the LMIA process for foreign candidates. (I hope I am wrong)
Also age weighs heavily on qualifying for EE. If I was 29 I would have 438 points and would stand a much better chance of getting drawn.
But this then means that people with less experience are more likely to get drawn.
It just seems like the whole process might be a bit catch 22 and actually end up weakening the employment market in the long run.
What are people’s thoughts on this?

 

[fkl]

Anybody who is working in the field of Automation and Robotics? What are the chances of getting LMIA backed Job Offer in this domain?

Thanks

Not very high. Although i do not work in the precise domain, i have a rough idea of the industry being in IT and i don't think there are many employers hiring internationally for this.

What you need to understand is that mere academic qualification isn't some thing short in Canada. Canada has some of the best universities after US in the world.

So for every major STEM program, you would find more qualified local graduates than you can from most other places in the world. Unless you are in post doc with a university in a specialized area, it wont be easy to find such employers.

 

[_Aspirant]

Not very high. Although i do not work in the precise domain, i have a rough idea of the industry being in IT and i don't think there are many employers hiring internationally for this.

What you need to understand is that mere academic qualification isn't some thing short in Canada. Canada has some of the best universities after US in the world.

So for every major STEM program, you would find more qualified local graduates than you can from most other places in the world. Unless you are in post doc with a university in a specialized area, it wont be easy to find such employers.

Well, I agree with almost all your statements. I am working in the field of Robotics and Automation and looking forward to a valid job offer to substantiate my application. I know the situation with getting LMIA backed job offer very well, therefore, I am not banking on this option too much. It just that I may get lucky and someone may point to a link, contact or employer who may be looking for someone like me.

Thanks

 

[Svetlanka]

This is another example of Express Entry weakness, it counts on age more than experience, hence they end up overlooking experienced / talented individuals. :

It is not a weakness at all. It is the Canadian immigration program purpose - to renew their senescent population with younger skilled one. Therefore the age is so important and therefore the experience requirement is only 1 year. Although we don't like it

 

[mooncef]

I'm software engineer specialized in Meteor ! and i started a project with my current client in toronto from scratsh ! a year ago , i know this product inside out and it is a bit specialized , since interracts with a telephony system ! in reality they won't find anyone who can manage this product like me ! my client wants to hire me as i'm a crucial asset for the team! do you think this situation is LMIA friendly ?

 

[fkl]

I'm software engineer specialized in Meteor ! and i started a project with my current client in toronto from scratsh ! a year ago , i know this product inside out and it is a bit specialized , since interracts with a telephony system ! in reality they won't find anyone who can manage this product like me ! my client wants to hire me as i'm a crucial asset for the team! do you think this situation is LMIA friendly ?

Sounds positive. Although a specific javascript framework e.g. meteor won't be considered a big deal by some one in IT, but having worked already for a client on it remotely and having knowing of the specific product built would make a good enough case.

Though i would say that your (the applicant's) over all profile should show that you worked and acquired this experience over a length of time. Ideally it would be great if your past experience also corresponds with it.

All in all this should make a good case. Good luck

 

[chinmoong]

Hi Senior,

I had two canada certifications but no PR and currently stay outside Canada.

1. Alberta child care worker license (certificate qualification issued by Alberta goverment)
2. Ontario college of trades. (Certificate of Qualification - journey person - IT Network technician - Non compulsory trade)

FYI, my trade currently not eligible for Federal Skilled Trades Program .

In this case, do I still need to get LMIA from canada employer and with my both certificate, what is my chance to get LMIA ?