that was harsh, I need your support

[Hussain Junejo]

@Fdk your reply really boosted me, Else I was thinking to better not to Study and live in Canada.
@Fsw as david also said you are being emotional for your country but it would be great if you would Have faced the truth and agree upon it. It is true Pakistan and India is facing a very very high rate of corruption thru out in everything Employment, Business Contracts(Roads etc) etc. I totally agreed whatever David said it is truth.. Btw you also know how many are employed in Government Jobs thru Bribes..
@David I totally agreed whatever you said for Developing Countries (Specially Pakistan and India.)..


As for FDK, $15000 would be max that my parents can support with me. Hence, I will have to go with Odd jobs during studies.. And I will try to go after A'levels, As after getting degree there is low ratio of getting acceptance and Who knows that untill I have degree weather Immigration would be allowed or not..
What I was really tensed about is Not getting a job after studying for 9-10 years.

 

[scylla]

As for FDK, $15000 would be max that my parents can support with me. Hence, I will have to go with Odd jobs during studies..

If $15K total is the most your parents can support you and you haven't saved up significant funds on your own, I would not recommend taking an MBA in Canada since the tuition is very high and you won't be able to make up the difference working in Canada. Note that in order to be approved for a study permit, you will have to show CIC that you have sufficient funds to cover first year tuition and expenses. So for an MBA, this means you'll need to show a bank balance (and/or approved loan) of $30K or more (depending on how expensive the MBA program is). The balance you show must cover first year tuition + $10K in living expenses + $2-3K in travel expenses.

 

[fdk511]

I will second Scylla's comments - Canadian Universities are expensive, and the cost of living can be higher than the US. I will also add another perspective:

1. Unlike Pakistan, you cannot enroll in an MBA program straight out of high school/A-levels. You are expected to complete an undergrad degree first, which doesn't have to be in the business field, and then work in the industry for a few years before you can be considered to be eligible for an MBA application. This applies to either US or Canadian universities.

2. The Canadian immigration system has changed starting from Jan 2015. I won't go into a summary of all the changes, but I will point out that you would still need to demonstrate job experience before applying for an MBA even if your undergrad degree was from Canada/USA.

3. If accounting is your focus, then you should research now on what qualifications have reciprocity agreements with Canada (I am thinking ACCA, but can't be certain). The cost of completing these programs in Pakistan and then applying for a Masters in accounting or an MBA in Canada will be a more pocket-friendly process.

4. Finances alone shouldn't prevent you from applying though, since some universities offer scholarships for eligible international students (typically your grades in O and A levels along with extra-curricular activities would help you qualify) - you won't find out if you qualify unless you apply. If your application is successful and a financial aid package meaningful, these scholarships can provide significant financial advantage. I don't have specific Canadian experience to share, but a long time ago, the University of Texas at Austin offered tuition waivers to some undergrad students who landed an on-campus job as a computer lab assistant after their first year. Georgia Tech would offer housing fee waivers to those who became on-campus housing advisers after the first year. This information only became available after one enrolled - and of course must not be used for financial planning purposes. You should get in touch with other students who are studying abroad to get a firmer handle on financial options available. Anything except for a formal financial aid package cannot be used for visa application purposes, but the information you glean from feedback can provide you better insight and help you prepare for expectations.

5. Unless your PR application is already pending and you are waiting for an approval for a PR visa relatively soon, you will be just like any other international student - pay your fees, graduate (hopefully obtain some internship/co-op experience), look for a job, and if/when you find one then apply for a PR after a while based on provincial nomination.

These are just my opinions - others may disagree or add their own experiences/perspectives.

All the best

 

[david1697]

@ Fdk your reply really boosted me, Else I was thinking to better not to Study and live in Canada.
@ Fsw as david also said you are being emotional for your country but it would be great if you would Have faced the truth and agree upon it. It is true Pakistan and India is facing a very very high rate of corruption thru out in everything Employment, Business Contracts(Roads etc) etc. I totally agreed whatever David said it is truth.. Btw you also know how many are employed in Government Jobs thru Bribes..
@ David I totally agreed whatever you said for Developing Countries (Specially Pakistan and India.)..


As for FDK, $15000 would be max that my parents can support with me. Hence, I will have to go with Odd jobs during studies.. And I will try to go after A'levels, As after getting degree there is low ratio of getting acceptance and Who knows that untill I have degree weather Immigration would be allowed or not..
What I was really tensed about is Not getting a job after studying for 9-10 years.

Hussain Junejo, I am aware of the issue (rampant corruption in developing world), or else I wouldn't state it exists. The most straightforward inquiry would be: is it true or is it a malicious lie? If true, then logical question is: what is the real problem? The one who raises the subject or the practice itself?
Unfortunately, when people take emotional approach, their response goes somewhat like this: "Even if this is true, you are Evil because you said it. Those who practice it are all good (or I won't tolerate you criticizing them), because I have emotional attachment to them" etc.
Really childish and impulsive response, besides if things are so rosy over there why so many ordinary people are migrating from there?
Anyway, I have decided to end it so that this thread would stay focused on the subject.

Regarding funding of your education,is $15K one time lump sum they can give you, or could they provide you with additional $15K on a yearly basis?
I don't know if you are allowed to work while studying, but assuming you are then you have to carefully calculate the total cost of living in CA vs how much money you will have. Also, even if allowed and you think you can afford it by working full time on menial/minimum pay jobs , try to avoid doing it. Because MBA study is like a full time job, you will have to work on a lot of projects, many with your classmates, you will have to spend a lot of time in library and some with your friends (discussing team projects), and you have to write a lot. It's likely that you will fail your MBA if you can't dedicate to it enough hours of study, unless you test yourself first (take heavy load course study and work full time in Pakistan for one semester, see how it works for you, see if it's something you can do).

As I said earlier, if your purpose is to come and study (and you can afford to pay for it), then by all means you can come and study. Canada has very good living environment, people are nice and friendly and there is no reason why you shouldn't study in a country, just because the job market is bad there (at this moment you are not moving there with expectation of professional employment, you don't have PR or Work Permit, but you are going there to study).

As to future (after you graduate), it's totally unpredictable. Who knows what economy will be like in CA by the time you graduate? Also, you may network quite naturally while at school .It's not like we are told,given an ultimatum, "Network, or starve to death!". In your case , you go to school and networking just happens, and you never know , may be by the time you graduate one of your friends will know someone who will need you to fill a position requiring an MBA. If yes, and you like it, then you accept it (provided you qualify under imm. law), if not then you return home or go somewhere else, do whatever you wish to do. I myself , if I was 15 years younger, would go to Canada to study , may be do my JD or something else, and (as other poster mentioned) if you are in your 20's, doing part time menial/minimum pay job to partially finance your living is acceptable, it's not going to screw up your mind and make you feel like the world has turned upside down.


Good luck

 

[Hussain Junejo]

If $15K total is the most your parents can support you and you haven't saved up significant funds on your own, I would not recommend taking an MBA in Canada since the tuition is very high and you won't be able to make up the difference working in Canada. Note that in order to be approved for a study permit, you will have to show CIC that you have sufficient funds to cover first year tuition and expenses. So for an MBA, this means you'll need to show a bank balance (and/or approved loan) of $30K or more (depending on how expensive the MBA program is). The balance you show must cover first year tuition + $10K in living expenses + $2-3K in travel expenses.

Yeah I agree.. it gonna be easy for my parents to Show $60000 in bank + Property of 1000K.
What I said above meant that My parents will afford my Tuition fee as for Living I will have to work for that. I have estimated for an Acca/MBA 15K-20K Tuition fee.

 

[Hussain Junejo]

I will second Scylla's comments - Canadian Universities are expensive, and the cost of living can be higher than the US. I will also add another perspective:

1. Unlike Pakistan, you cannot enroll in an MBA program straight out of high school/A-levels. You are expected to complete an undergrad degree first, which doesn't have to be in the business field, and then work in the industry for a few years before you can be considered to be eligible for an MBA application. This applies to either US or Canadian universities.

2. The Canadian immigration system has changed starting from Jan 2015. I won't go into a summary of all the changes, but I will point out that you would still need to demonstrate job experience before applying for an MBA even if your undergrad degree was from Canada/USA.

3. If accounting is your focus, then you should research now on what qualifications have reciprocity agreements with Canada (I am thinking ACCA, but can't be certain). The cost of completing these programs in Pakistan and then applying for a Masters in accounting or an MBA in Canada will be a more pocket-friendly process.

4. Finances alone shouldn't prevent you from applying though, since some universities offer scholarships for eligible international students (typically your grades in O and A levels along with extra-curricular activities would help you qualify) - you won't find out if you qualify unless you apply. If your application is successful and a financial aid package meaningful, these scholarships can provide significant financial advantage. I don't have specific Canadian experience to share, but a long time ago, the University of Texas at Austin offered tuition waivers to some undergrad students who landed an on-campus job as a computer lab assistant after their first year. Georgia Tech would offer housing fee waivers to those who became on-campus housing advisers after the first year. This information only became available after one enrolled - and of course must not be used for financial planning purposes. You should get in touch with other students who are studying abroad to get a firmer handle on financial options available. Anything except for a formal financial aid package cannot be used for visa application purposes, but the information you glean from feedback can provide you better insight and help you prepare for expectations.

5. Unless your PR application is already pending and you are waiting for an approval for a PR visa relatively soon, you will be just like any other international student - pay your fees, graduate (hopefully obtain some internship/co-op experience), look for a job, and if/when you find one then apply for a PR after a while based on provincial nomination.

These are just my opinions - others may disagree or add their own experiences/perspectives.

All the best

Fdk as you are also Pakistani you might understand me Better..
As for Financial Insha Allah Tuition Fee whatever it is 15K or 20k it gonna be covered by my Parents all I have to work is for Living..
Moreover, I have searched alot For CPA requirement it just says 150Hours degree. But I didn't understand it 100%. It like 4 Years degree = 120 Hours and Have a masters too then you are 100% qualify for CPA.
My main Aim is CPA, Hence, I wish to do ACCA and Then CPA(If acca is 150 Credit hours)..
It will be great FDK if you will help regard my Study process after A'Levels What to do first what to do next. Keeping in Mind Final aim is for CPA. And I also Prefer ACCA then MBA.
I hope you understand

 

[Hussain Junejo]

Hussain Junejo, I am aware of the issue (rampant corruption in developing world), or else I wouldn't state it exists. The most straightforward inquiry would be: is it true or is it a malicious lie? If true, then logical question is: what is the real problem? The one who raises the subject or the practice itself?
Unfortunately, when people take emotional approach, their response goes somewhat like this: "Even if this is true, you are Evil because you said it. Those who practice it are all good (or I won't tolerate you criticizing them), because I have emotional attachment to them" etc.
Really childish and impulsive response, besides if things are so rosy over there why so many ordinary people are migrating from there?
Anyway, I have decided to end it so that this thread would stay focused on the subject.

Regarding funding of your education,is $15K one time lump sum they can give you, or could they provide you with additional $15K on a yearly basis?
I don't know if you are allowed to work while studying, but assuming you are then you have to carefully calculate the total cost of living in CA vs how much money you will have. Also, even if allowed and you think you can afford it by working full time on menial/minimum pay jobs , try to avoid doing it. Because MBA study is like a full time job, you will have to work on a lot of projects, many with your classmates, you will have to spend a lot of time in library and some with your friends (discussing team projects), and you have to write a lot. It's likely that you will fail your MBA if you can't dedicate to it enough hours of study, unless you test yourself first (take heavy load course study and work full time in Pakistan for one semester, see how it works for you, see if it's something you can do).

As I said earlier, if your purpose is to come and study (and you can afford to pay for it), then by all means you can come and study. Canada has very good living environment, people are nice and friendly and there is no reason why you shouldn't study in a country, just because the job market is bad there (at this moment you are not moving there with expectation of professional employment, you don't have PR or Work Permit, but you are going there to study).

As to future (after you graduate), it's totally unpredictable. Who knows what economy will be like in CA by the time you graduate? Also, you may network quite naturally while at school .It's not like we are told,given an ultimatum, "Network, or starve to death!". In your case , you go to school and networking just happens, and you never know , may be by the time you graduate one of your friends will know someone who will need you to fill a position requiring an MBA. If yes, and you like it, then you accept it (provided you qualify under imm. law), if not then you return home or go somewhere else, do whatever you wish to do. I myself , if I was 15 years younger, would go to Canada to study , may be do my JD or something else, and (as other poster mentioned) if you are in your 20's, doing part time menial/minimum pay job to partially finance your living is acceptable, it's not going to screw up your mind and make you feel like the world has turned upside down.


Good luck

David, It is great to read your reply and I highly Appreciate your Suggestions and Help..
Tho, About Bribe I will share you an example Why am I doing A'Levels in Pakistan rather then Pakistan Board (Examination System of Pakistan for 9th 10th 11th 12th), It is because I have studied awaking whole Nights worked very very hard and the Exam paper also Went too awesome. When the Result day Comes I am getting 72% while I deserve 85+% on the other side My friend who didnt studies getting 85+%.. It makes many people Pain in *** .. Hence, Because of this condition People are forced to bribe to get Grades else they wont even get what they deserve and Same goes with Employment, People didnt get a Job untill they Know a High Official in that Department or they dont bribe.

As for my Working Conditions this was all taught to me by my consultant .. I dont trust him because he is making money..
Hence I will explain my purpose of visit
1: Better education ( 15-20K Tuition fee can be paid my Parents I just have to work for Living)
2: Worst condition in my Country like Kidnapping, Snatching of Mobiles, Murders etc
3: (My dream) To settle abroad with my Parents.


David, One more thing how about ACCA then CPA? I personally don't like doing MBA because here in Pakistan One who cant do anything do MBA, And I dont want to be one of them nor my mother.

 

[jazibkg]

If you get the OBU BSc Degree when you do your ACCA, you'll meet the requirements for CPA, get some advanced placement on their examinations. Possibly 7-8 exemptions. Speaking from personal experience. Also, you're looking at like 3 years down the line, it is too early for you to worry about these things if you'd be studying in Pakistan for the next 4-5 years possibly. A lot will change by then.

You mention settling abroad with parents, are your parents already abroad?

 

[david1697]

David, It is great to read your reply and I highly Appreciate your Suggestions and Help..
Tho, About Bribe I will share you an example Why am I doing A'Levels in Pakistan rather then Pakistan Board (Examination System of Pakistan for 9th 10th 11th 12th), It is because I have studied awaking whole Nights worked very very hard and the Exam paper also Went too awesome. When the Result day Comes I am getting 72% while I deserve 85+% on the other side My friend who didnt studies getting 85+%.. It makes many people Pain in *** .. Hence, Because of this condition People are forced to bribe to get Grades else they wont even get what they deserve and Same goes with Employment, People didnt get a Job untill they Know a High Official in that Department or they dont bribe.

As for my Working Conditions this was all taught to me by my consultant .. I dont trust him because he is making money..
Hence I will explain my purpose of visit
1: Better education ( 15-20K Tuition fee can be paid my Parents I just have to work for Living)
2: Worst condition in my Country like Kidnapping, Snatching of Mobiles, Murders etc
3: (My dream) To settle abroad with my Parents.


David, One more thing how about ACCA then CPA? I personally don't like doing MBA because here in Pakistan One who cant do anything do MBA, And I dont want to be one of them nor my mother.

Regarding the bribes, it's the same or similar story all over the so called developing world. If I just met someone and said "Look, you guys have lots of bribes there [name of developing country]", some could get angry, even assault me I guess.
But, after I knew someone well enough, I would jokingly bring a subject, saying "hey, btw, where I come from there is so much corruption and bribery.....", and they would start laughing, open up and say "hey, we have the similar culture where I come from, haha".
So, I know the subject from my reading of the material online as well as from individuals I have met in person and spoke to.

Now, I am reading what you wrote:

People didnt get a Job untill they Know a High Official in that Department or they dont bribe.


Now, do you realize that first portion of your statement (which I have selected in bold font) is true for Canada now, for one of the worlds most developed country? That, no matter what your qualification is, you "must network to get a job" concept is basically the same as what you described in Pakistan (you have to know someone who knows someone who calls shots, or else you won't get a job or will have to spend enormous amount of effort and time to get any).

There is no outright bribe yet, but people in the West don't realize that it's one form of corrupted social order if "networking" (or "knowing someone") is the ONLY way to land a job, something that you and I are well familiar with from our own country of origin.
For Westerners there is an element of excitement to it, they almost sparkle and bubble when they talk about "networking", they think about it like a 7 years old kid who just started to smoke cigarettes thinks about smoking. It's cool of course! Who cares it leads to cancer and death eventually.
They don;t have long enough exposure, experience and knowledge of the consequences yet, and whoever tells them that it's not healthy is of course "uncool", is someone who is just "nagging" like an old grand-ma.
They don;t understand what a Pandora's Box these corrupted practices are and have no clue where they will be 100 years from now if they keep on going the path they are on now.... Sigh.....


As to ACCA or CPA, I will let others answer, as it's not something I am well familiar with.

Good luck with your education and plans for future life in Canada.

 

[rahul20978]

Regarding the bribes, it's the same or similar story all over the so called developing world. If I just met someone and said "Look, you guys have lots of bribes there [name of developing country]", some could get angry, even assault me I guess.
But, after I knew someone well enough, I would jokingly bring a subject, saying "hey, btw, where I come from there is so much corruption and bribery.....", and they would start laughing, open up and say "hey, we have the similar culture where I come from, haha".
So, I know the subject from my reading of the material online as well as from individuals I have met in person and spoke to.

Now, I am reading what you wrote:

People didnt get a Job untill they Know a High Official in that Department or they dont bribe.


Now, do you realize that first portion of your statement (which I have selected in bold font) is true for Canada now, for one of the worlds most developed country? That, no matter what your qualification is, you "must network to get a job" concept is basically the same as what you described in Pakistan (you have to know someone who knows someone who calls shots, or else you won't get a job or will have to spend enormous amount of effort and time to get any).

There is no outright bribe yet, but people in the West don't realize that it's one form of corrupted social order if "networking" (or "knowing someone") is the ONLY way to land a job, something that you and I are well familiar with from our own country of origin.
For Westerners there is an element of excitement to it, they almost sparkle and bubble when they talk about "networking", they think about it like a 7 years old kid who just started to smoke cigarettes thinks about smoking. It's cool of course! Who cares it leads to cancer and death eventually.
They don;t have long enough exposure, experience and knowledge of the consequences yet, and whoever tells them that it's not healthy is of course "uncool", is someone who is just "nagging" like an old grand-ma.
They don;t understand what a Pandora's Box these corrupted practices are and have no clue where they will be 100 years from now if they keep on going the path they are on now.... Sigh.....


As to ACCA or CPA, I will let others answer, as it's not something I am well familiar with.

Good luck with your education and plans for future life in Canada.

David, no offence, but you said a few replies earlier that you were going to end talking about corruption and stick to the thread because it seems to be an irrationally emotional issue for some. And here I see yet another reply of yours, where you begin with the same topic. Just a suggestion, friend; why don't you stick to what you say you will.

BTW, I read an earlier comment you made saying "If things were so rosy in their countries, why do they want to immigrate?" Now, I've been following your tirades (no other word for them) across a number of threads. You have re-iterated quite a few times that you are in a very good position in the US. You have also said you have sent thousands of applications to Canadian firms, seeking employment, and how the economy of Canada is messed up, how there are no jobs there etc.... etc.... etc. Why are you so desperate to immigrate to Canada? Obviously, continuing to send thousands of applications for jobs that are not there fairly reeks of desperation. Of course, you might have a perfectly rational reason. If so, share it with us, and give us the benefit of the doubt that we may want to immigrate for the same kind of reasons, not necessarily because our respective countries are too corrupt to have a decent life in.

Cheers, mate.

 

[david1697]

David, no offence, but you said a few replies earlier that you were going to end talking about corruption and stick to the thread because it seems to be an irrationally emotional issue for some. And here I see yet another reply of yours, where you begin with the same topic. Just a suggestion, friend; why don't you stick to what you say you will.

BTW, I read an earlier comment you made saying "If things were so rosy in their countries, why do they want to immigrate?" Now, I've been following your tirades (no other word for them) across a number of threads. You have re-iterated quite a few times that you are in a very good position in the US. You have also said you have sent thousands of applications to Canadian firms, seeking employment, and how the economy of Canada is messed up, how there are no jobs there etc.... etc.... etc. Why are you so desperate to immigrate to Canada? Obviously, continuing to send thousands of applications for jobs that are not there fairly reeks of desperation. Of course, you might have a perfectly rational reason. If so, share it with us, and give us the benefit of the doubt that we may want to immigrate for the same kind of reasons, not necessarily because our respective countries are too corrupt to have a decent life in.

Cheers, mate.

Some people are incapable of tolerating a critical opinion they disagree with, nor able to rationally argue their point to the contrary, without personal insults and attacks.

As a result, you will have to read my previous posts.

The one I posted in reply to this current post of yours got deleted, most likely due to massive reports to moderator about someone who dared to speak the truth about corruption and didn't agree to tell lies to please their sentiments.

Cheers

 

[Hussain Junejo]

If you get the OBU BSc Degree when you do your ACCA, you'll meet the requirements for CPA, get some advanced placement on their examinations. Possibly 7-8 exemptions. Speaking from personal experience. Also, you're looking at like 3 years down the line, it is too early for you to worry about these things if you'd be studying in Pakistan for the next 4-5 years possibly. A lot will change by then.

You mention settling abroad with parents, are your parents already abroad?

Jazib Can you please reply my Message?

 

[rahul20978]

Some people are incapable of tolerating a critical opinion they disagree with, nor able to rationally argue their point to the contrary, without personal insults and attacks.

As a result, you will have to read my previous posts.

The one I posted in reply to this current post of yours got deleted, most likely due to massive reports to moderator about someone who dared to speak the truth about corruption and didn't agree to tell lies to please their sentiments.

Cheers

True, true....and you strike me as one of those people. But, if there's one thing I've learned, there is no universal truth. There's your truth and my truth and every single person in the world has his own version of the truth. So, if I happen to disagree with your version of the truth, you label me irrational and blind to, guess what, THE TRUTH. Seems to me, if you weren't an atheist, you'd probably think you were God.

 

[trytry]

Some people are incapable of tolerating a critical opinion they disagree with, nor able to rationally argue their point to the contrary, without personal insults and attacks.

As a result, you will have to read my previous posts.

The one I posted in reply to this current post of yours got deleted, most likely due to massive reports to moderator about someone who dared to speak the truth about corruption and didn't agree to tell lies to please their sentiments.

Cheers

True mine also got deleted...

Okay now i will type which Moderator will like....here it is "Go to Canada, there are tons of jobs, the moment students will take admission in first year, they will start getting job offer.... ;D "

 

[jazibkg]

True mine also got deleted...

Okay now i will type which Moderator will like....here it is "Go to Canada, there are tons of jobs, the moment students will take admission in first year, they will start getting job offer.... ;D "

yeah one of my posts about such corruption and the gift culture within canadian companies was also deleted.

Do people actually go to the length of reporting such posts that speak the eyewitness truth, why is everyone so adamant to maintain a rosy picture of Canada, even people who've bared the brunt of it?