Thai wife denied TRV "stay-in-Canada" risk

[thelynx]

Hello everyone,

We just received a response from Immigration Canada in which they denied my Thai wife of four years a TRV. I would like to share our circumstances with CanadaVisa in the hopes that someone may be able to shed some light on how we can improve our next application.

Background info

We live in Thailand and were planning to visit Canada for three weeks in September. My octogenarian mother has never met my wife or our daughter, and because my mother is unfit for travel to Thailand, we decided we would try to go there.

I am retired and my wife is a stay-at-home mom. We have a three-year-old daughter with full Canadian citizenship. We own a house in my wife's name and a translation of the Thai house book was submitted with the application. I was her financial sponsor and submitted all required documentation for support (bank letter and statement) and an invitation letter was written by my sister in Canada. While the application was being processed, they informed us that they required no further documentation.

Letter from Immigration

Regarding the reasons for the rejection, three items were checked after this paragraph:

"You have not satisfied me that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident. In reaching this decision, I considered several factors, including:"

1. travel history
2. purpose of visit
3. personal assets and financial status

With regards to #1, I guess the fact that she has never been out of Thailand and returned counts as a strike against her. It seems they punish someone for not having traveled. Nothing I can do about that one.

#2: The purpose of our visit (to visit in-laws; mother-in-law in particular) was clearly indicated both in my wife's letter, my sister's invitation letter, and on our itinerary. I guess this is not reason enough or perhaps they considered it unsubstantiated. Would a letter from my mother stamped by a notary public help?

#3 I provided proof of more than sufficient funds in my bank account, as well as a statement from the bank saying that I had sufficient funds to support my wife for the duration of her stay. Do you think it would be better to deposit sufficient funds for the trip into her own bank account, and then she can get the bank statements and letter from the bank? Would that help our chances? If that's not the concern, it would seem she is being punished for being a stay-at-home mom. Anything else we can do to assuage their fears?

I would have thought that our application may have been denied because we both don't have jobs to come back to, but "Current employment situation" was not checked.

I'd be grateful for any and all suggestions as we prepare our next application.I would be happy to provide any other information if required.

I know we need to be realistic. Perhaps our circumstances are such that it is unlikely that her application will ever be accepted, but I find it hard to believe. Is it possible? I'm not really into throwing money away.

Thank you in advance.

PS For what it's worth, we are very happy in Thailand and have absolutely no desire to move to Canada!

 

[zardoz]

Hello everyone,

We just received a response from Immigration Canada in which they denied my Thai wife of four years a TRV. I would like to share our circumstances with CanadaVisa in the hopes that someone may be able to shed some light on how we can improve our next application.

Background info

We live in Thailand and were planning to visit Canada for three weeks in September. My octogenarian mother has never met my wife or our daughter, and because my mother is unfit for travel to Thailand, we decided we would try to go there.

I am retired and my wife is a stay-at-home mom. We have a three-year-old daughter with full Canadian citizenship. We own a house in my wife's name and a translation of the Thai house book was submitted with the application. I was her financial sponsor and submitted all required documentation for support (bank letter and statement) and an invitation letter was written by my sister in Canada. While the application was being processed, they informed us that they required no further documentation.

Letter from Immigration

Regarding the reasons for the rejection, three items were checked after this paragraph:

"You have not satisfied me that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident. In reaching this decision, I considered several factors, including:"

1. travel history
2. purpose of visit
3. personal assets and financial status

With regards to #1, I guess the fact that she has never been out of Thailand and returned counts as a strike against her. It seems they punish someone for not having traveled. Nothing I can do about that one.

#2: The purpose of our visit (to visit in-laws; mother-in-law in particular) was clearly indicated both in my wife's letter, my sister's invitation letter, and on our itinerary. I guess this is not reason enough or perhaps they considered it unsubstantiated. Would a letter from my mother stamped by a notary public help?

#3 I provided proof of more than sufficient funds in my bank account, as well as a statement from the bank saying that I had sufficient funds to support my wife for the duration of her stay. Do you think it would be better to deposit sufficient funds for the trip into her own bank account, and then she can get the bank statements and letter from the bank? Would that help our chances? If that's not the concern, it would seem she is being punished for being a stay-at-home mom. Anything else we can do to assuage their fears?

I would have thought that our application may have been denied because, apart from the house, we have no jobs to come back to, but that "Current employment situation" was not checked.

I'd be grateful for any and all suggestions as we prepare our next application and would be happy to provide any other information if required.

Thank you in advance.

PS For what it's worth, we are very happy in Thailand and have absolutely no desire to move to Canada!

I suspect that the visa office logic is that you may all be intending to take up residence in Canada, where you may submit an inland PR sponsorship application. Hence, the "purpose of visit" and the "not leaving Canada".
@Bryanna may have some words of wisdom for you.

 

[thelynx]

Thanks for your reply. I see what you're saying. In that case, I reckon it could be quite difficult to convince them their logic is wrong in our case when it's been such a common occurrence.

 

[thelynx]

Would family contacting their MPs help? Has anyone had any success with that?

 

[Buletruck]

Doubtful. The MP can inquire, or even offer a letter of support, but can’t influence the decision. That’s an ethics violation. Besides, I am assuming you are a non resident and don’t have an MP.

 

[thelynx]

Doubtful. The MP can inquire, or even offer a letter of support, but can’t influence the decision. That’s an ethics violation. Besides, I am assuming you are a non resident and don’t have an MP.

You are correct in your assumption . . . and point taken on the ethics violation. Thanks.

 

[thelynx]

I see there have been no replies with suggestions for improving our application, which I find quite discouraging. Should I take this to mean our particular circumstances are such that our chances are pretty limited no matter what we do? I find it quite bizarre that I'm not able to bring my wife to my own country of citizenship for a visit. Granted I have not lived in Canada for many years. Perhaps I should consider myself a "Canadian passport holder" as opposed to "a Canadian". At any rate, if anyone in the community can provide suggestions or recommendations, I'm all ears. Thank you.

 

[Buletruck]

So how long a visit did you ask for? And how did you prove your ties to Thailand in the application? Personally, apart from proving your wife is going to leave Canada at the end of the trip is only part of the proof needed. IRCC will want to see that you have some documented ties to Thailand. Including your name on the house ownership may be beneficial,as well as her having her own funds. You could also include your daughters entitlement in local schools (if she is going to school).
IMO the issue is going to be her strength of ties to Canada (you and your daughter) that you need to overcome. I know with my wife we actually spent a couple of years establishing travel history to other countries (Australia) before we attempted a TRV for Canada. We did a couple of trips there first to a) to prove the relationship and b) to show her intent was not to overstay in a visa required country. I included my work permits for Indonesia, along with a copy of my work contract.
Sorry I can’t be of much more help.

 

[scylla]

Unfortunately your wife's profile doesn't give you much to work with in terms of strengthening her application. I don't think there's any point reapplying until something significant in her profile changes. No previous travel is certainly a big strike against her. Agreed with the recommendation above. If you can take a trip to NZ or Australia before you reapply - that would be helpful. Any chance she is planning to start working soon? If she can work for six months and then get a letter from her employer approving a 2-3 week leave period for a trip, that should be helpful.

 

[thelynx]

Thank you very much for your frank replies. Wow, I had no idea it was going to be this problematic just to go to Canada for three weeks. (We asked for a month, I believe.)

Incidentally, we did send a translated copy of our "house ownership book" which lists the house in her name, but that clearly wasn't enough.

"IMO the issue is going to be her strength of ties to Canada (you and your daughter) that you need to overcome." I don't quite understand what you're saying there. Could you please elaborate?

We will work on her profile over the next year, and we'll try to take a trip somewhere else as you both recommended. I assume it would need to be a trip to a developed country in the "West", right?

Perhaps we'll be in a position to try again next summer.

 

[Buletruck]

Could you please elaborate?

Because both you and your daughter are Canadian citizens, it would be extremely easy for her to settle in Canada “if” you were all to show up and decide to stay. It would have likely been easier if your daughter wasn’t Canadian and it was just you and your wife travelling. IRCC looks at “thing” that improve chances the recipient of the visa is going to leave. That’s the ultimate goal IRCC is looking for.....your going to leave.
As far as travel history, visa required countries are the ones they look for (Australia, NZ, Japan, EU, US, etc). Visa free travel around ASEAN countries makes trips there pretty much worthless for travel history. Again, they are looking for proof she won’t abuse the privilege. Asking for a month is a guaranteed rejection. When you apply again, don’t ask for more than a couple of weeks. Once you get the TRV, and get to the POE, it’s cbsa that will decide how long she gets and unless you encounter a complete tool, they will generally accommodate anything up to 6 months stay once your here. Don’t put too much emphasis or worry too much about the actual stay, but tell them 2 weeks in the application. It just makes life easier.
When you look at the application, keep in mind IRCC will most likely be looking at everything from the perspective you are planning to stay. Your efforts and documentation need to convince them otherwise (I know, it’s a pain in the ass). Having the house in her name doesn’t necessarily guarantee her ties to the country. She could easily move to Canada despite owning the house, which is why it would be beneficial if your name was on the ownership as well. Again, anything that proves you and your daughters ties to Thailand will go a long way.

 

[scylla]

"IMO the issue is going to be her strength of ties to Canada (you and your daughter) that you need to overcome." I don't quite understand what you're saying there. Could you please elaborate?

Simply put - she fits the profile of someone who is not a genuine tourist and has plans on remaining in Canada long term. IRCC has concerns she is not actually coming to Canada as a temporary tourist but that you have plans to sponsor her for PR and not leave once she is here. Unfortunately too many people with her profile (i.e. lack of ties, lack of travel, etc.) have done things in the past that IRCC deems to be an abuse of the visitor visa privilege. So that makes it much harder for someone like her to be approved.

Requesting a trip that was a month long was too much given her profile. I would go with 2 weeks next time. Planning on applying next year after strengthening your wife's profile is a good plan.

 

[thelynx]

Thank you both for your very valuable comments and suggestions. I understand the situation a lot better now and have a better idea of what they're looking for. I can certainly understand their position considering the abuse of the TRV system that has undoubtedly occurred. It's unfortunate, though, in that it defines everyone as being guilty of having ill intentions until they can prove otherwise, but I suppose considering the current climate, they don't have much choice.

Incidentally, I checked our application and we applied for 3 weeks -- we'll adjust it to 2 weeks for our next effort and will do our best to satisfy the profile requirement in the ways you suggested.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.

 

[Bryanna]

To add to the responses posted by others....

Your wife might have some chance for a TRV approval if:
1. She can demonstrate her active ties to Thailand. Property ownership is not an active tie.

Some suggestions I can think of are employment/business (even if the earnings aren't much) + if she takes care of dependent family members (her parents especially if there isn't anyone else to take care of them) + if she volunteers for social/charity reasons and is a key member of those groups/NGOs + if she enrolls for a study program and is actively studying, etc

Building travel history to other visa-required countries might help only very marginally. That's because she would be a true visitor to those other visa-required countries, but isn't the same as far as her family ties to Canada are concerned.


2. If you include evidence of your active and inactive ties to Thailand. Basically, if you prove that you must return to Thailand then it implies that your wife will return with you.


You may want to go through these cases for suggestions:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/which-countries-to-visit-to-improve-travel-history-significantly.482769/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/newly-married-wife-2nd-try-for-her-getting-visitor-visa-qs.541652/#post-6691555

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/visitor-visa-for-my-wife.514908/

 

[thelynx]

Thanks for adding your valuable input, Bryanna. Both of us will work on building better thais ;-) to Thailand over the coming year.