Study results from actual immigration offices, deciding if couples are "genuine"

[CdnandTrini]

very interesting read

Isn't it? I feel bad for non-traditional couples living in what CIC says are more "traditional" cultures/countries. (I think they referred to it as "less westernized".....maybe). That is just one more pressure added to an already incredibly stressful (for most people) process.

 

[CdnandTrini]

Very interesting.read....thanks for sharing.

After reading the report, I think me file is still under investigation lolz!

lol..... and you are most welcome. At least for people being processed via the NDVO, they shared a lot of what they look for. So forewarned is forearmed. Hopefully!

 

[tink23]

Some of the direct quotes from the vo bothered me! The two where the vo laughed. Rude! They might think it is strange or have seen it a hundred times before, but these are people's lives, and nothing should be taken as comical, whether the relationship ends up being seen as genuine or not.

 

[surleplateau]

Isn't it? I feel bad for non-traditional couples living in what CIC says are more "traditional" cultures/countries. (I think they referred to it as "less westernized".....maybe). That is just one more pressure added to an already incredibly stressful (for most people) process.

They seem to address that here (page 13):

Moreover, visa officers understand that culture is not deterministic.
They are well aware that individual members of particular religious or ethnic
communities may not necessarily follow all of the customs associated
with courtship and marriage, and that individuals and families sometimes
selectively reject and/or modify certain rituals based on practical accommodations
to circumstances.

Which makes me feel better. It seems to me that it's not there are a lot of "red flags" (i.e. instant disqualification), but more like an accumulation of "yellow cards" which are warning signs that might trigger, at minimum, a closer look at the details and timeline, and if your application gets a lot of "yellow cards" then it will probably trigger an interview request.

The study was a fascinating read. Thanks for posting it!

 

[keesio]

Yes, they are quite aware of local customs. That is why CIC does not get concerned as much about an arranged marriage in India vs some anglos from Ireland. At the same time they will expect a large wedding from a couple from South Asia while it is not as big a deal for for a Canadian/US couple.

 

[bhkr0008]

interesting article..

but this only puts me in fear for my file even though my relationship is genuine i'm afraid what they'll judge regarding my file and what they may ask additionally i.e documents or enquiry

 

[innosense]

bhkr0008,
Why do u feel so ? There are always exceptions to the norm expected by a society. not everyone has a grand marriage. not everyone's parents accept love marriage. it is important how u have presented your file and if u have given sufficient evidence that u r a genuine couple.

it also depends on the officer and our luck ! Stay positive !

 

[ascouple]

I'm also on a Facebook group that apparently one of them has an article where a visa officer was quoted saying something to the effect of 'if the sponsor is 'ugly' and the applicant is 'hot', they question the validity of the relationship, meaning that it's likely just for the sole purpose of the applicant gaining a visa as 'how could someone that good looking like someone that ugly?'. No joke. And they're hiring young students with three days training to review files.

They never said it was the only thing they look at, but it's one of the aspects of the relationships that may raise a flag.

If the rest of the story and documentation checks out, I'm sure the application will be approved.

 

[ascouple]

interesting article..

but this only puts me in fear for my file even though my relationship is genuine i'm afraid what they'll judge regarding my file and what they may ask additionally i.e documents or enquiry

If your relationship is genuine, and you showed this in your application package - why would you be nervous?

 

[ascouple]

I agree that if there is substantial proof in material areas, that should suffice. I just find it hard to believe that when this IOs supervisor read a draft of the report they did not delete this comment and set this person straight. That tells me that this is an acceptable approach. Particularly given that CIC would have had to authorize the publishing of this report and it would have had to go through many levels of sign-off. ???

First off, thanks for the read. Interesting stuff.

However, why wouldn't this be an acceptable approach? They're not saying this is the only method of determining if a relationship is genuine, it's simply one of the issues that may raise a flag. If the rest of their stories and documentation make sense, I'm sure they would be passed through.

You have to consider these immigration officers are tasked to screen out illegitimate relationships from people around the world with different cultures and different circumstances. I'm all for them using whatever screening methods they have to separate the legitimate relationships from the illegitimate. I think it only helps those of us who are in legitimate relationships.

 

[warzo]

from where I come from, the family is practically involved in every phase of the relationship. Parents are actively searching prospects for their son/daughter specially back home. They would do initial visits to the family, and gather all the information for the son/daughter in Canada. Once all the parties are satisfied, then they will ask for their son/daughter to travel backhome to physically meet the person before the final decision. Technologically has made things a lot easier now. Usually a few skype dates are also arranged before the meeting.

A few meetings occur between the two and a decision is made literally in 2-3 weeks. This is perhaps the only time parents are not involved. And the final decision is entirely upto the two. And either party could reject if they don't find themselves compatible. Because it is costly to travel back and forth, and taking time off work can also be pain in the neck, so they even end up getting married in that short period of time. And believe me, arranging weddings on short notice is not unusual, and not very difficult either. We will still have upto 200-400 attendees. Our brides used to look very shy in the picture, and that didn't mean that she was not happy (this has changed over the years. you will find them smiling, laughing in the pictures lol).

So you see this is arranged yet not really arranged. And My understanding is that CIC takes this piece of culture aspect into consideration. Both Sponsor and PA have to obviously still explain all of this.

In my case, my husband is best friends with a friend and my brother in law. This is how I was introduced to him, and then because of culture we don't "date" very long. So our conversation started in July of 2013. I visited him in Nov 2013 to meet in person. Before the end of our trip, he proposed and I accepted. And then we officially got married in our "home" town in Pakistan back in April 2014. So I had "known" him for less than a year before we got married. But this is again our culture. If my husband was in Canada, it would've taken us the same amount or maybe less to get married.

I have read a few refusal cases, and yes looks, age and even education difference is all taken into consideration.

 

[warzo]

No frequent visits were another reason for rejection.

 

[CdnandTrini]

First off, thanks for the read. Interesting stuff.

However, why wouldn't this be an acceptable approach? They're not saying this is the only method of determining if a relationship is genuine, it's simply one of the issues that may raise a flag. If the rest of their stories and documentation make sense, I'm sure they would be passed through.

You have to consider these immigration officers are tasked to screen out illegitimate relationships from people around the world with different cultures and different circumstances. I'm all for them using whatever screening methods they have to separate the legitimate relationships from the illegitimate. I think it only helps those of us who are in legitimate relationships.

You are most welcome ascouple . Actually I hesitated to even start this topic because I did not want to stir up the nerves of any of the newer or less experienced members. Shout out to bhkr0008 (and innosense ) here - staying positive and hopeful is critical to getting to the final goal!

Not every person that starts this process is equally confident in CIC. It makes more sense to me now (after 7 years of dealing with immigration personally and even longer professionally) that being nervous entering into this quagmire is a pretty "normal" reaction.

For most of the American/Canadian couples and a few other countries with less scrutiny, this journey is not generally as stressful or as long. There are also many legitimate couples that do get denied and have to appeal and that in my opinion, is a whole other level of "ugly".

As a professional I am very offended by someone who is paid by my tax dollars, to speak about their clients in a manner that reduces them to a crass stereotype or caricature. I think it is insulting to the people you are supposed to be providing service to. There are so many more ways to conduct oneself with integrity, when one is passing judgment on people's lives that will affect their entire future.

Do I want the IOs to do a good job in determining the legitimate vs. fraudulent couples? Of course. But I also want a better system, with more transparency and accountability. Not sure if you caught the part where the reporter (or author, cannot remember but it was one of them) noted that this was one of the only in-depth independent audits of the spousal sponsorship category since the 1960s???? I don't think that is acceptable either.

Personally speaking, I am a big believer in "innocent until proven guilty" but CIC, on balance (based upon my experience and research) does not operate this way. Like most things in life there is good and bad and some of the employees in public service are great and fair and as objective as they can be. I guess for those of us with less faith in "the system" these type of subjective comments or approaches do not exactly inspire confidence that genuine couples will be passed through/approved. Probably a longer reply than you expected, but hopefully I have answered your question.

 

[CdnandTrini]

Some of the direct quotes from the vo bothered me! The two where the vo laughed. Rude! They might think it is strange or have seen it a hundred times before, but these are people's lives, and nothing should be taken as comical, whether the relationship ends up being seen as genuine or not.

Totally agree!

 

[CdnandTrini]

They seem to address that here (page 13):

Which makes me feel better. It seems to me that it's not there are a lot of "red flags" (i.e. instant disqualification), but more like an accumulation of "yellow cards" which are warning signs that might trigger, at minimum, a closer look at the details and timeline, and if your application gets a lot of "yellow cards" then it will probably trigger an interview request.

The study was a fascinating read. Thanks for posting it!

You are most welcome surleplateau . And yes I hope that most of the IOs take all of the things you referenced in your post from the study, into consideration.