Study in University while PR is Expired?(urgent)!

[KSA99]

Hello,

My son is about to join a university in Canada based on his PR,by next week.This PR is valid until July ,2014.By then (i.e July,2014), he will have completed only 400 days in Canada ,which do not fulfill the residency obligation requirement for the PR renewal . Please let me know whether it would be possible for him to pursue with his studies in the university with an expired PR (i.e after the mentioned period,July 2014)?as no inquiry has yet been done by the university regarding his PR status.

Please give me a prompt reply,(as the matter is urgent),
Thanks in advance.

 

[steaky]

It will be best to stay in the same university as next fall. For details, contact the school directly.

 

[KSA99]

Hi,

First we contacted the University, they said check it with immigration office about his PR issue and when CIC was contacted directly they said check it with your University.

Hence, please clarify the above situation urgently.



Regards,

 

[frege]

Hi,

First we contacted the University, they said check it with immigration office about his PR issue and when CIC was contacted directly they said check it with your University.

Hence, please clarify the above situation urgently.



Regards,

Is he in Canada now?

When you say the PR is valid until June 2014, are you talking about the PR card?

When you spoke to CIC, did you give his name?

 

[KSA99]

Hi Frege,

1. My son is not currently in Canada but will be there within a week.
2. His PR status means his PR card is valid until July, 2014.
3. CIC did not ask for his name. Does it make any difference?


Regards,

 

[frege]

Hi Frege,

1. My son is not currently in Canada but will be there within a week.
2. His PR status means his PR card is valid until July, 2014.
3. CIC did not ask for his name. Does it make any difference?


Regards,

I asked about his name because it's best if CIC doesn't know about this.

I'm afraid your son may have problems when he enters Canada

You're confusing two different things.

(1) Expiry of the PR card; and
(2) Loss of PR status.

(1) happens in 2014, but (2) will happen if he tries to enter Canada and the border officer sees that he has been outside the country for more than three years.

There are some exceptions, like: living abroad with a Canadian wife; working for a Canadian company; caring for a sick relative.

If your son is able to get into the country without difficulty, then he must stay in the country until he reaches 730 days' residence, and not apply for a new PR card before then. It's okay to stay in the country without a PR card.

The university most likely will only ask for proof of his PR status once. For this his PR card will likely be enough. They probably won't ask to see it every year. Otherwise, he can also use his COPR, probably.

When he enters the country, it will help that he has a valid PR card. If the border officer checks his passport in his computer system, he will see his entries to Canada, though probably not his departures. This may cause him to question your son about his absences. He can also look at foreign passport stamps, and the date and place of issue of the passport. If this information shows he has been out of the country for three years or more, this will probably lead to him losing his PR status.

You might want to discuss with an immigration lawyer what your options are so that your son has the best chance of entering the country without losing his permanent residence.

 

[sssmmm1234]

Hi

If your PR card is valid till July 2014, there is no problem. You just need to make sure he doesn't leave the country after July 2014.
You can still stay and continue with University with an expired PR card. The PR card is only required if you are travelling.
Once he reaches 730 days and I would suggest you collect more days like then apply for his new PR card

 

[frege]

Hi

If your PR card is valid till July 2014, there is no problem. You just need to make sure he doesn't leave the country after July 2014.
You can still stay and continue with University with an expired PR card. The PR card is only required if you are travelling.
Once he reaches 730 days and I would suggest you collect more days like then apply for his new PR card

This is incorrect in saying that there is "no problem" if the PR card is still valid. You can lose PR status if a border officer discovers you've been out of the country for too long, even if the PR card is valid.

It's true that the border officer is less likely to ask questions if the PR card is still valid.

 

[KSA99]

Hi sssmmm1234,

Thanks for your reply.

He will stay there after July,2014 since he has to complete his degree there.

One more question,would it be possible for him to leave Canada for only few days in July 2015 and then re-enter again there ? & when would he be eligible to apply for the PR renewal ,is it just after the completion of exactly 730 days or could it be 2-3 months earlier (as he will have to travel for certain reasons)?

Looking forwards towards a prompt reply,
Regards.

 

[frege]

Hi sssmmm1234,

Thanks for your reply.

He will stay there after July,2014 since he has to complete his degree there.

One more question,would it be possible for him to leave Canada for only few days in July 2015 and then re-enter again there ? & when would he be eligible to apply for the PR renewal ,is it just after the completion of exactly 730 days or could it be 2-3 months earlier (as he will have to travel for certain reasons)?

Looking forwards towards a prompt reply,
Regards.

He shouldn't apply for a PR card or leave the country until he meets the 730-day criterion. This could lead to him losing his PR status.

 

[KSA99]

Hi Forgie,
Can you please guide/suggest me on how to answer the questions of the border officer at the time of arrival at the airport? He has been outside Canada for more than 3 years as he had to complete his A-levels this June.

Looking forward towards a prompt reply,
Regards.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Hi Forgie,
Can you please guide/suggest me on how to answer the questions of the border officer at the time of arrival at the airport? He has been outside Canada for more than 3 years as he had to complete his A-levels this June.

Looking forward towards a prompt reply,
Regards.

How old is he? I'm assuming your son was a minor when he landed and when the family left Canada and that having just finished A levels, he is around 18 now?

If that is the case, he should be fine. If the officer questions him about not meeting the residency requirement, he can just say that his parents removed him from the country while he was still a minor (nothing about leaving to finish school). As a minor, he had no choice but to go with his legal guardians.

Being removed from Canada as a minor is one of the valid reasons they accept for not being able to meet the residency requirement, provided the removed minor returns to Canada as soon as they are able (so around the age of 18 instead of around 30).

Very little chance that the officer will report him, as he would most likely be able to sucessfully appeal to keep his status.

I do agree with what the others above have said about him staying in the country though. The "removed as a minor" defense doesn't hold for very long, so he should stay in Canada until he meets the 730 days and then apply to renew his PR card.

 

[frege]

Hi Forgie,
Can you please guide/suggest me on how to answer the questions of the border officer at the time of arrival at the airport? He has been outside Canada for more than 3 years as he had to complete his A-levels this June.

Looking forward towards a prompt reply,
Regards.

I don't think education counts as a valid reason to be outside the country.

So if the officer decides there is a problem, it is likely your son will lose his PR. Once there is an official investigation started, it will be difficult to keep the PR.

Your son has an obligation to answer questions truthfully. So it is probably most important to cross into Canada in a way that won't arouse suspicion. I'm not sure whether this should be by air, by car, ... Perhaps directly from the US if possible. Really I don't know too much about this aspect of things, so I think you should try to get advice from people who have crossed into Canada in similar circumstances.

Also be aware of the information contained in his passport, and his dates of entry to Canada. If it is possible to get a new passport before travel, this might be an idea. His dates of entry will be known to the border official. Recently, the US has been providing Canada with dates of entry into the US, since the end of June 2013.

Usually at the border, one of the questions asked is where you live. There can be three answers:

1) Abroad, but I'm visiting Canada for a short time.
2) I lived abroad until now, but now I'm returning to Canada.
3) I live in Canada.

If someone answers (3) and they don't have any entries to Canada recorded for many years, then this means either:
a) they were in Canada for the whole time until a recent trip; or
b) a recent entry was not recorded - this can happen but is relatively unusual.

a) or b) might not be compatible with passport stamps and/or place of issue of the passport.

(2) seems like an important event, and might attract the most attention.

Again, you'd do best to ask similar questions of people who have returned to Canada after an absence of three years, or asking an immigration lawyer who would be familiar with examination procedures.

You can read manuals ENF 4 (especially "Examining a permanent resident") and ENF 23 for information relevant to this situation:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/

 

[frege]

How old is he? I'm assuming your son was a minor when he landed and when the family left Canada and that having just finished A levels, he is around 18 now?

If that is the case, he should be fine. If the officer questions him about not meeting the residency requirement, he can just say that his parents removed him from the country while he was still a minor (nothing about leaving to finish school). As a minor, he had no choice but to go with his legal guardians.

Being removed from Canada as a minor is one of the valid reasons they accept for not being able to meet the residency requirement, provided the removed minor returns to Canada as soon as they are able (so around the age of 18 instead of around 30).

Very little chance that the officer will report him, as he would most likely be able to sucessfully appeal to keep his status.

I do agree with what the others above have said about him staying in the country though. The "removed as a minor" defense doesn't hold for very long, so he should stay in Canada until he meets the 730 days and then apply to renew his PR card.

You are partially correct, in that it can be one factor in an H & C case for retaining PR status.

Here is what ENF 23 says about this:

Minors who left in order to accompany parents

Under the former Immigration Act, 1976, if a child under 18 years of age left Canada with their
parents and, after becoming an adult, sought to re-enter Canada as a permanent resident,
jurisprudence dictated that the person could not have formed the intent to abandon Canada as a
child and therefore retained permanent resident status.

Under IRPA, intent to abandon is no longer the test for retaining permanent resident status.
Therefore, the inability to form intent no longer results in automatic retention of permanent
resident status. The new test requires that H&C considerations be taken into account. Although
the reasons for leaving and remaining outside Canada may be considerations, the fact that a
minor did not have the intention to abandon Canada or left as a dependent child is not
determinative.

If they speak to a lawyer and he says the son has good grounds to retain PR on H&C considerations, then that may change how to approach the border questioning. If they feel confident arguing that he should legally retain PR status, then it becomes much more important to be honest at the border.

Because of this, I would recommend speaking to a Canadian immigration lawyer for advice.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

You are partially correct, in that it can be one factor in an H & C case for retaining PR status.

Here is what ENF 23 says about this:

If they speak to a lawyer and he says the son has good grounds to retain PR on H&C considerations, then that may change how to approach the border questioning. If they feel confident arguing that he should legally retain PR status, then it becomes much more important to be honest at the border.

Because of this, I would recommend speaking to a Canadian immigration lawyer for advice.

I'm not going just on what the guidelines say, I'm also going on anecdotal evidence from this forum, as the question of entering without meeting the residency requirement is asked all the time.

It is very rare for someone entering Canada with a valid PR card to be reported for not meeting the residency requirement, no matter their situation or reasons for leaving. The officer might give a little lecture or warning but very rarely do they actually report someone.

Add the fact that this guy was removed by his parents as a minor and there is even less chance that he will be reported.

There is no reason that the OP should spend money on an immigration lawyer to know "how honest" the son should be with the border officers. He should simply answer their questions honestly. If he is reported, then the OP should contact a lawyer.