Starting New Job Under Implied Status

[Veelia11]

Do I now have to leave the country tomorrow? This is the worst thing I could have ever heard literally last minute the day before my permit expires. I called months ago to verify this with the fucking agent

 

[MilesAway]

You can stay as a visitor, but you cannot work.

There have been several people who have been asked by CIC to confirm that they stopped working, and then had problems/delay/refusals due to their working illegally. Not everyone gets caught, but it's not a risk I would be willing to take.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

No you don't have to leave the country. Apply online TODAY to change your status to a visitor. Include proof you've applied for inland and are awaiting your OWP. You won't be able to work while you wait for yoru OWP, but your OWP should arrive in about 4 months. You will have implied status as a visitor while you wait for CIC to confirm you've switched to visitor status.

(I am 99% sure you have to apply to change your status to visitor, it doesn't happen automatically, but I would appreciate someone confirming this as I seem to have something niggling in my head that says it does?)

 

[Ponga]

No you don't have to leave the country. Apply online TODAY to change your status to a visitor. Include proof you've applied for inland and are awaiting your OWP. You won't be able to work while you wait for yoru OWP, but your OWP should arrive in about 4 months. You will have implied status as a visitor while you wait for CIC to confirm you've switched to visitor status.

(I am 99% sure you have to apply to change your status to visitor, it doesn't happen automatically, but I would appreciate someone confirming this as I seem to have something niggling in my head that says it does?)

The OP included the OWP with the Inland application, so he doesn't need to do anything to benefit from implied status as a visitor.

 

[Vaza3D]

I am in the same situation as the OP, my PGWP expires in June 3rd. I applied for Inland Spousal and OWP yesterday.

Why does the OP has to change his status to a visitor if the application is in progress? He might not be able to work, but his temporary resident status will be still valid until a decision is made (as the definition of implied status). Or am I wrong?

Also, can anyone provide a link with at least one story where a PGWP on implied status had problems because of continuing to work?

 

[Veelia11]

Okay I just called the CIC again and got through to another different agent from the CIC call center.
I spoke with them about my problem again, asking them to double check, and telling them everything that I initially said on here.

She said she gets this call literally a 100 times a week, and swore on her life that not only could I continue working under implied status from my PGWP, but I could also start working for my new employer under the same permit. She explained that the PGWP is an open-work permit, and I qualify for implied status since I've already applied for a new work permit. She gave me her agent number, sent me another e-mail summarizing everything that we talked about, and insured me that every call is recorded so we could pull the records from our phone call if anything ever happened to my PR application based off of the information that she gave me today.

I feel like this is enough backing/support for me to feel comfortable working under implied status. Like I made this woman literally swear to me that it was okay. I don't really know what more I could do, or how much more backing/support/verification I could possibly need.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

The OP included the OWP with the Inland application, so he doesn't need to do anything to benefit from implied status as a visitor.

Phew, thank you for correcting me! Will remember that for future.

So OP, you don't have to do anything, just stop working and hang out as a visitor until your OWP arrives.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Okay I just called the CIC again and got through to another different agent from the CIC call center.
I spoke with them about my problem again, asking them to double check, and telling them everything that I initially said on here.

She said she gets this call literally a 100 times a week, and swore on her life that not only could I continue working under my PGWP, but I could also start working for my new employer under the same permit. She explained that the PGWP is an open-work permit, and I qualify for implied status since I've already applied for a new work permit. She gave me her agent number, sent me another e-mail summarizing everything that we talked about, and insured me that every call is recorded so we could pull the records from our phone call if anything ever happened to my PR application based off of the information that she gave me today.

I feel like this is enough backing/support for me to feel comfortable working under implied status. Like I made this woman literally swear to me that it was okay. I don't really know what more I could do, or how much more backing/support/verification I could possibly need.

I wouldn't be doing it, personally.

Your risk to take.

 

[Ponga]

Okay I just called the CIC again and got through to another different agent from the CIC call center.
I spoke with them about my problem again, asking them to double check, and telling them everything that I initially said on here.

She said she gets this call literally a 100 times a week, and swore on her life that not only could I continue working under implied status from my PGWP, but I could also start working for my new employer under the same permit. She explained that the PGWP is an open-work permit, and I qualify for implied status since I've already applied for a new work permit. She gave me her agent number, sent me another e-mail summarizing everything that we talked about, and insured me that every call is recorded so we could pull the records from our phone call if anything ever happened to my PR application based off of the information that she gave me today.

I feel like this is enough backing/support for me to feel comfortable working under implied status. Like I made this woman literally swear to me that it was okay. I don't really know what more I could do, or how much more backing/support/verification I could possibly need.

Did you at least get her name, extension, agent # (or similar), just in case this comes back to bite you later?

While I can understand your desire to take her word for it, simply saying "I called and the lady that I spoke to swore that I would be ok...", probably wouldn't be of much help. Let's hope you never need it anyway.

Good luck!

 

[SchnookoLoly]

And even if you do get her agent number, it won't change the fact that you would have continued working illegally. CIC could just say "Your work permit could not be extended, therefore no implied status, therefore you worked illegally, and now we are rejecting your PR application on the grounds that you worked illegally."

Ultimately it is YOUR responsibility; doesn't matter if a CIC call agent (who is NOT a CIC officer, has NOT taken the courses on immigration, and does NOT know immigration laws inside and out) or a lawyer or whatever told you it was okay... it's your own risk to take and if an actual CIC visa officer says it's illegal then you are SOL.

 

[DohCanada]

I just love how people who don't have ANY training repeatedly claim that call centre agents and lawyers are idiots without considering that, in fact, they may not understand the rules as well as they think. This idea that you can't extend an work permit issued under IEC/PGWP under any circumstances just keeps cropping up and I have observed people being given the wrong information over and over again, I have to say something.
My days are spent interpreting layers of statutes, regulations, policies and then applying them to specific facts, so I know a thing or two about how the process is completed. While I don't work in the immigration system and I most certainly would not purport to give legal advice, I want to explain the reason why the forum members' interpretation of the IEC/PGWP work permit system does not make sense to me and show you an approach for interpreting what the law actually says with respect to immigration.

I can't tell you whether you can/cannot change employers, keep working etc. etc. but you should be able to discern how to get that answer for yourself by looking at my analysis.
If someone can show me where in the act, regulations or policy that there is a unique condition placed on IEC/PGWP work permits, I would be interested in hearing this as I have not been able to find one.

1. Immigration and Refugee Protection Act

Under IRPA, foreigners entering Canada must establish that they meet the criteria to become a temporary or permanent resident upon entry - s. 18(1), s. 20(1)(b), s. 22
Work permits may be issued if applications meet criteria within IRPA regulations. - s. 30 (1.1)
and Work permits may be refused if the Minister has issued instructions that justify a refusal - s. 30 (1.2)(1.3)
The Regulations may define terms used and include provisions establishing classes of temporary workers (e.g. students, workers), conditions respecting work and study etc. - s. (32)
The Minister may issue instructions on processing application to, among many other things, establish categories of applicants. These instructions will be published in the Canada Gazette. (s. 87.3)

In addition IRPA establishes a whole bunch of regulations on inadmissibility, refugee status, the rights of the Minister etc. but the most relevant parts for interpreting the work permit situation are that IRPA sets out you're a temporary resident and then establishes that you need to refer to the regulations and any minister's instructions for further details.


IRPA Regulations

“work permit” means a written authorization to work in Canada issued by an officer to a foreign national. (s. 2)
The worker class is prescribed as a class of persons who may become temporary residents. (s. 194)
The visitor class is prescribed as a class of persons who may become temporary residents. (s. 191)
The student class is prescribed as a class of persons who may become temporary residents. (s. 210)

temporary residents of all classes must leave Canada at the end of their authorized period of stay and may not work unless authorized under Part 9 or 11 of Regs - s. 183(1)
if a decision on an application to extend the authorized period of stay has not been made prior to the end of the current authorized period, then the authorized period is extended until you get a decision. - s. 183 (5)
A list of conditions that may be placed on a temporary resident - s. 185
A foreign national may work without a work permit until a decision is made on an application made by them under subsection 201(1), if they have remained in Canada after the expiry of their work permit and they have continued to comply with the conditions set out on the expired work permit, other than the expiry date - s. 186(u)
Foreign workers may apply to renew their work permits provided they do so before it expires and provided they comply with the conditions of imposed on their entry to Canada - s. 201


What is the relevance of all this? well:
a) there three classes of temporary residents: student, worker and visitor
b) you can work without a work permit if you apply for a renewal provided you comply with the conditions of the original work permit until the decision is made (other than leaving Canada obviously) and do not leave Canada
c) you can remain in Canada as a temporary resident until a decision is made.

I can't find anything in the regulations that says if you were issued a work permit under a specific government program (like IEC/PGWP) that these rules don't apply. In fact, that is not a condition listed under s. 185.
That said, if you apply to have your work permit extended under the terms of a program where it is abundantly clear that you are not eligible to do so, this would be dishonest and in bad faith. That might prompt an officer to exercise his or her discretion in a negative way.


Ministerial Instructions

There's nothing relevant as per the internal delegation matrix.



I think the confusion people on this forum are running into is the distinction between BEING a worker and HOW ONE BECAME a worker. There is no such class as worker with a permit issued under IEC, for example. You are simply a worker with a work permit. Your permit is valid for x amount of time and there will be a list of conditions that you need to comply with. As long as there is not a condition that, for example, you must remain eligible for acceptance/participation in an IEC program then the avenue by which you came to possess the work permit does not appear to be relevant at all. What you cannot do is use the IEC program as grounds to apply to extend your work permit unless the terms of the program specifically say you can. So if you had an OWP under the IEC program and you are eligible for an OWP under the spousal sponsorship program, all you need to do is comply with the original conditions listed on your OWP until you get a CIC decision, then you need to comply with the terms of that decision. The possible terms and conditions are listed in s. 185 of the regulations.

Say you were here on a temporary foreign worker work permit. You have a work permit with a list of conditions, one of which is likely that you must remain employed by the employer who sponsored you in. If you applied to vary the conditions from a closed to an open work permit and extend your work permit pursuant to the spousal sponsorship pilot, you can work at your sponsoring employer's place of employment until you get the decision on the OWP. If you lose your job, you can stay in Canada until you get that OWP decision.

In both cases you are permitted to work without a work permit as per s. 186(u) of the Regulations (also referred to as "implied status"). This is because you aren't switching category (e.g. from visitor to worker. From student to worker. From worker to student). There is nothing written anywhere to suggest that category applies to the means by which you originally applied for a work permit. Once you have a work permit, you're in the prescribed worker class as per the regulations.

While I could find nothing in the regulations specifically forbidding one from taking advantage of temporary status by applying for an extension under an IEC program which one knows one is not entitled to, it really shows a lack of good faith and there may be other provisions that authorize the CIC to take measures against this. I really can't speak to the consequences because I just don't know whether there is a bad faith or offence provision to address bad faith applications. In any event, if you have made a bona fide application as a family class member, this type of thing just doesn't apply to you.

Remember, the CIC has to comply with rules of procedural fairness and incorrect decisions are subject to review by various levels of immigration review tribunals and/or the Federal Court of Canada. Immigration officers don't always make the right decisions. You can check out examples through the canlii.org website. Unfortunately incorrect decisions result in long, costly and stressful legal proceedings. However, the courts always look to IRPA and the Regulations first to rule on the fairness of the decision, so this should be your primary source of information.

Finally, part of the reason that the immigration process is so confusing is that the Minister has the authority to make substantial changes to criteria by means of Ministerial Instructions. Changes to instructions, regulations and the act are frequently applied retroactively to unprocessed applications. This creates a lot of uncertainty and may be part of the reason that these immigration myths persist over time.

 

[Sheps]

I am going to chime in here.

I once (before visiting this forum) believed that a IEC visa was extendable by submitting a OWP application with an inland application. After spending time here, I became convinced that it was not possible due to the large amount of information on this and the british expats forum. However, my reasoning was similar to DohCanada's initially in that:

1) There are categories of immigration: "Open" Workers, "Closed" Workers (Temporary), Student, Visitor
2) "IEC", "PGWP", etc are not categories, they are methods to enter the categories. The "non-extendable" relates to being able to apply through those categories again (you can't apply for a post graduate work permit after already having one), however you can apply for a open work permit on the basis of being a skilled worker for example.

DohCanada, the problem with your logic, is while it is good "in law", the actual response from CIC is that you cannot extend the conditions of the original work permit (the permit is issued for either 1 or 2 years, that is the condition). You could apply for a judicial review, and the judge might side with you, or he might not, but the person is taking a chance that they will get caught by CIC. That could potentially mean an exclusion order they have to fight and a fight they may or may not win (but it would definitely clear up some things as there currently is no case law on canli to discuss implied status and youth exchange programs).

I wouldn't risk it, but it is up to the individual person.

I think CIC needs to clarify what "category" is. Is it the program they are applying under, or the type of permit they are receiving (open, closed, etc).

 

[Ponga]

That said, if you apply to have your work permit extended under the terms of a program where it is abundantly clear that you are not eligible to do so, this would be dishonest and in bad faith. That might prompt an officer to exercise his or her discretion in a negative way.

Thank you for your well crafted contribution to this thread, topic and debate. I think the excerpt above hits the proverbial nail on the head.

IMHO, there's much too much ambiguity regarding this issue and CIC could only help people if they'd publish language to clarify what is, and what is not, legal for those in this situation.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Thank you for your well crafted contribution to this thread, topic and debate. I think the excerpt above hits the proverbial nail on the head.

IMHO, there's much too much ambiguity regarding this issue and CIC could only help people if they'd publish language to clarify what is, and what is not, legal for those in this situation.

I completely agree. Until CIC publishes something explicit on the subject, I will continue to advise people that current language can be interpreted as it being illegal to work, and that it's their risk to take if they choose to interpret it another way.

I have tried emailing CIC about this and have included many specific examples from people here and on BE, and the responses I got from CIC did nothing to shed any light on the situation.

There are arguments both ways, depending on how one interprets the available text. I personally believe that working on an IEC or PWGP is illegal, based on conversations on here and on BE with two CBSA officers and one retired visa officer. For me, that's as close as I can get to an official word, so that's the line I will be taking until CIC publishes something more concrete. And that means something coming convincingly from CIC, and not some numpty in the call centre, as the call centre people have been known to give out duff information on multiple occasions - including giving me bad information about my application when I applied back in 2012.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Another thread was unearthed recently, note the first post where the OP states that the friend was denied sponsorship because she worked illegally. She was an IEC holder and continued working as she believed she had implied status. CIC rejected her application.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/apply-inland-after-iec-expire-keep-working-and-now-aip-refuse-t163087.0.html