Sponsoring spouse, marriage w/o wedding ceremony yet, staying in canada visitor

[seoulcanada]

Hi, I'm very worried about sponsoring my wife in my situation, I will try to be brief.

Note: I perviously sponsored a common-law partner just over 3 years ago. We broke up (I broke up with her and moved out around June 2012).

I immediately began dating another girl, from South Korea, and our relationship developed quickly. We moved in together (not common law yet), moved in roughly in December 2012.

We had a trip planned for one month to travel through asia from Aug-Sept 2013. Right before we left, I proposed to her. During our trip, I met her parents in South Korea and asked/received their blessings in our marriage. We went during "korean thanksgiving", a big family affair, so I met lots of her family. We took some pictures with all of us, but not that many. I didn't ever really think about taking tons of pictures as "proof, just pictures that happened on their own.

So Sept 23 is my last day in Seoul, I am going back to Canada. She is staying in Seoul for 2 months to spend time with family since she has been in Canada the last two years on various visitor/working holiday/student visas. Our plan has been to get married before I leave Seoul and I can start arranging the spousal sponsorship application in Canada. We plan to have an actual wedding ceremony, but later in 2014.

A poster in another thread strongly suggested not sending in an application with a marriage certificate without a wedding ceremony. So in our case, that would mean waiting 6-7 months before getting the application together. I am actually in Seoul right now for one more day with her immediate family. I guess we could go out for dinner ( we usually eat at home) to have a "small reception" and take pictures for proof? However this just seems so fake to me, as its just doing something to get proof as opposed to our marriage being real on its own merits. It just feels odd to do this. We also just bought wedding rings (her mother bought them for us) yesterday. I did give her an engagement ring when I proposed (passed down from my mother).

I do have quite a few pictures of us together with MY family in Canada just from dinners and special occasions (thanksgiving, birthdays).

So although I respect the other posters opinion about not sending in my application until after the wedding ceremony, I would like to gather further replies before making a decision (and also searching out some different sources for additional help).

Thanks

 

[truesmile]

What was the date that your previous common-law sponsored applicant became PR. (I'm assuming it DID go through). It seems you have to wait 3 years from then anyway as undertakings last for that long.

The CIC website says (in part) this:

. . . regulation 117(9)(b) that states that a sponsor is ineligible to sponsor a spouse or partner, if the sponsor has an existing sponsorship undertaking (in respect of a previous spouse or partner) and the period of that undertaking has not ended.

 

[CdnandTrini]

Hi, I'm very worried about sponsoring my wife in my situation, I will try to be brief.

Note: I perviously sponsored a common-law partner just over 3 years ago. We broke up (I broke up with her and moved out around June 2012).

I immediately began dating another girl, from South Korea, and our relationship developed quickly. We moved in together (not common law yet), moved in roughly in December 2012.

We had a trip planned for one month to travel through asia from Aug-Sept 2013. Right before we left, I proposed to her. During our trip, I met her parents in South Korea and asked/received their blessings in our marriage. We went during "korean thanksgiving", a big family affair, so I met lots of her family. We took some pictures with all of us, but not that many. I didn't ever really think about taking tons of pictures as "proof, just pictures that happened on their own.

So Sept 23 is my last day in Seoul, I am going back to Canada. She is staying in Seoul for 2 months to spend time with family since she has been in Canada the last two years on various visitor/working holiday/student visas. Our plan has been to get married before I leave Seoul and I can start arranging the spousal sponsorship application in Canada. We plan to have an actual wedding ceremony, but later in 2014.

A poster in another thread strongly suggested not sending in an application with a marriage certificate without a wedding ceremony. So in our case, that would mean waiting 6-7 months before getting the application together. I am actually in Seoul right now for one more day with her immediate family. I guess we could go out for dinner ( we usually eat at home) to have a "small reception" and take pictures for proof? However this just seems so fake to me, as its just doing something to get proof as opposed to our marriage being real on its own merits. It just feels odd to do this. We also just bought wedding rings (her mother bought them for us) yesterday. I did give her an engagement ring when I proposed (passed down from my mother).

I do have quite a few pictures of us together with MY family in Canada just from dinners and special occasions (thanksgiving, birthdays).

So although I respect the other posters opinion about not sending in my application until after the wedding ceremony, I would like to gather further replies before making a decision (and also searching out some different sources for additional help).

Thanks

Hello again SC, you are getting married so there will be a ceremony of some kind even if it is a small civil/courthouse service or with just a few witnesses/attendees correct?

It does not have to be a big elaborate event so just take pictures of how you are getting married and whatever small family celebration you will have. I was married in my mother-in-law's home with around 15 people present and we had dinner there afterwards. Because I was married in my husband's country my family and friends were unable to attend so when he is approved as a PR we will have another wedding here with my side and a bigger reception style party. It is not uncommon for immigration to see these situations because of financial and time constraints when our loved ones live abroad. We also were not able to go for a honeymoon for those reasons but when the time comes we will do that.

You do not have to "fake" anything but you do have to document especially knowing that you will need to submit proof to CIC according to their rules so you might as well be on top of things. Make an extra set of copies of any photos and the ones you send to immigration, label them or write on the back the date/event and who is in the photo. I agree with you that you should submit the application sooner rather than later; however, make sure it is complete, well organized with quality proof and lots of detail.

 

[Rob_TO]

Our plan has been to get married before I leave Seoul and I can start arranging the spousal sponsorship application in Canada. We plan to have an actual wedding ceremony, but later in 2014.

Answer this question honestly... if your girlfriend already had PR and there was no need to do the application, would you still be rushing through registering the marriage on Monday right before you leave to Canada, or would you simply naturally wait until you actually were ready to do a ceremony/reception?

You've basically stated the only reason you're getting married is in order to start arranging the spousal application - and this is the very definition of a "marriage of convenience". The relationship may be perfectly valid, but the actual marriage itself was done mainly for immigration purposes.

Keep in mind too that since you had previously sponsored someone and had that relationship fail... more scrutiny may be placed on this one. And visa offices in general are VERY suspicious of quick weddings with no ceremony/reception whatsoever. Many people do this because they want to elope or their family does not support their marriage... but in any case you need a good explanation as to why you are getting married like this. And in my opinion, stating "we just want to get the application started asap", will not be a good thing.

Hello again SC, you are getting married so there will be a ceremony of some kind even if it is a small civil/courthouse service or with just a few witnesses/attendees correct?

No, that is not how the bureaucratic process works in Korea to get married (i went through this a few months ago). There is no "ceremony" of any kind, no courthouse, and no witnesses or attendees required. Basically it's the same process that you would do to renew your drivers license or health card. You go to a government office, pick a number, and when it's called you go to the random government worker to update what's called the family register and issue a marriage certificate. In our case my wife did all the talking, and all i did at the end was sign my name. I didn't even need to speak! It's purely paperwork... no ceremony or statements made at all.

Anyways I am curious also what others would advise seoulcanada to do in his case. Hope others can help.

 

[bartjones]

I tend to agree with Rob. What's your hurry? Your girlfriend/fiancee is visa exempt in Canada and you are visa exempt in Korea. You can both visit each other any time you like. So why rush your PR application particularly when, as Rob says, CIC is going to be putting your application under the microscope because of your previous sponsorship.

No, that is not how the bureaucratic process works in Korea to get married (i went through this a few months ago). There is no "ceremony" of any kind, no courthouse, and no witnesses or attendees required. Basically it's the same process that you would do to renew your drivers license or health card. You go to a government office, pick a number, and when it's called you go to the random government worker to update what's called the family register and issue a marriage certificate. In our case my wife did all the talking, and all i did at the end was sign my name. I didn't even need to speak! It's purely paperwork... no ceremony or statements made at all.

Yes, I always found it funny that my marriage date wasn't the day I dressed up in a tux and walked down the aisle, but the day the following week when I followed my wife around Seoul, filling out forms and signing papers.

 

[kittyandpipit]

So getting married because you want to start the immigration process to be with that person is considered a marriage of convenience to cic?

 

[Rob_TO]

So getting married because you want to start the immigration process to be with that person is considered a marriage of convenience to cic?

No, if it involves an actual ceremony/reception, with even a small group of family/friends.

Yes, if it's just going to a government office to do marriage paperwork and filing right afterwards.

Would you really state in an application to CIC, that you got married just so you could start the paperwork for immigration quicker? CIC VO's put lots of emphasis on the circumstances of the wedding to validate a marriage, so if you didn't do a normal one you need to have a good explanation.

 

[Rob_TO]

We moved in together (not common law yet), moved in roughly in December 2012....
So Sept 23 is my last day in Seoul, I am going back to Canada. She is staying in Seoul for 2 months to spend time with family

Seoulcanada, I would like to also state that IMO the best way for you to do PR here, is via common-law.

If your girlfriend can change her return ticket to come back to Canada just a few weeks after you instead of a few months, then your co-habitation will have continued uninterrupted. So in Dec 2013, you could qualify for and apply as common-law. It will take you a while anyways to put all the paperwork together, and during your girlfriends remaining time in Korea she can gather the police/government docs she'll require.

Then while your common-law PR app is in process, you can continue with the wedding plans as you normally would.

 

[kittyandpipit]

lol, ok....i was thinking in terms that i would have to prove that our marriage was not out of convenience, and i didnt know how i would do that. we got married 9 months after meeting... that was 3 months ago, we still dont have our paperwork together. long process!!! its hard to be honest...like there was a time when we broke up for a few weeks cuz we couldnt do long distance anymore, but we realized we couldnt live without each other, and we were then stronger....do i avoid sharing that, cuz its honest? we have so many chat logs saved and thats all in there, do i cut it out or keep it?

 

[CdnandTrini]

No, that is not how the bureaucratic process works in Korea to get married (i went through this a few months ago). There is no "ceremony" of any kind, no courthouse, and no witnesses or attendees required. Basically it's the same process that you would do to renew your drivers license or health card. You go to a government office, pick a number, and when it's called you go to the random government worker to update what's called the family register and issue a marriage certificate. In our case my wife did all the talking, and all i did at the end was sign my name. I didn't even need to speak! It's purely paperwork... no ceremony or statements made at all.

Hi Rob_TO, thanks for the explanation, I was not aware of the process in Korea for marriage. I still think though that given the immigration process it is not uncommon for marriages to have to take place sometimes quickly. The OP has been in relationship with his fiancée for a reasonable amount of time, I think the MOC flag goes up when the relationship is really short with a quick marriage. And if a typical marriage in Korea is normal without a ceremony as you explained, then why would that be a concern? Just wondering.

 

[Rob_TO]

And if a typical marriage in Korea is normal without a ceremony as you explained, then why would that be a concern? Just wondering.

No i think I didn't explain properly... that is just the bureaucratic way that everyone has to actually do the marriage paperwork. But EVERYONE in Korea gets married also with a normal ceremony/reception! It's not common at all for Koreans to simply do the paperwork, and nothing more.

 

[CdnandTrini]

No i think I didn't explain properly... that is just the bureaucratic way that everyone has to actually do the marriage paperwork. But EVERYONE in Korea gets married also with a normal ceremony/reception! It's not common at all for Koreans to simply do the paperwork, and nothing more.

OK, I understand now. It would be so nice to not have to deal with all of this "stuff" but that is what global love entails nowadays I guess. Also wanted to add that I see some of your posts to others and it is kind of you to provide many helpful answers and detailed responses. +1 and blessings .

 

[zaibraza]

I got married to my canadian girlfriend in july 28th 2013. we met each other on 3rd march 2012. we never had many pictures, actually no pictures together. not even wedding pictures. but she is going to sponsor me and the key to the approval is lots and lots of detail and letters from landlords and receipts of rents showing both of our names. she got pregnant last year but had a miscarriage. i have photos of that though. fingers crossed.

 

[seoulcanada]

Answer this question honestly... if your girlfriend already had PR and there was no need to do the application, would you still be rushing through registering the marriage on Monday right before you leave to Canada, or would you simply naturally wait until you actually were ready to do a ceremony/reception?

You've basically stated the only reason you're getting married is in order to start arranging the spousal application - and this is the very definition of a "marriage of convenience". The relationship may be perfectly valid, but the actual marriage itself was done mainly for immigration purposes.

Actually to be honest, if I had my way (and I did for a short while), we were only going to do this marriage and have no ceremony at all. Hey, I like saving money, haha. Both of us actually don't even need a reception but our parents convinced us we should have something, so we are doing it for them. But yes, I see what you are saying that most people would simply wait. To us, it was our plan all along (well, since I proposed) to get married on this date. Technically it was supposed to be a few days ago, but I didn't take into account that the office would be closed for Chusok holiday.

I'm reluctant to do a common-law application because I already had a failed common-law application. In my mind, our real marriage is much stronger than my previous common-law sponsorship. Maybe this isn't how the Visa office sees it, but its how I see it.

As for why I'm in a rush...well...I guess its just my nature to do something as soon as I can when I know there is a long wait!

Thanks for all the replies, really! You are all very helpful.

 

[Rob_TO]

Maybe this isn't how the Visa office sees it, but its how I see it.

This is how you have to remember things, while putting together your app. What may be totally acceptable and ok for you, may look suspicious to the random visa officer reviewing your file.

Trust my I completely understand where you're coming from. After doing a full wedding in Korea, then and second one in Canada... I would have loved to just sign the papers and be done with it to cut out all the stress and bother of planning everything! However keep in mind that one of the key ways a CIC visa officer establishes if a marriage is real or one of convenience... is the wedding itself. So you and your wife should both write a nice essay on your relationship, and exactly why you opted for the non-wedding marriage.

At a minimum, I would definitely include ALL of the following also in your app:
- testimonies from both of your families
- proof of living together
- joint bank account or credit card
- joint life insurance with each other listed as beneficiary
- if you have extended health benefits with your employer, add your wife as dependent and include the proof
- change your status with CRA to married, and print out the page from your online account that shows this

Good luck with the application!