sponsoring dependent children

[ramkris]

Hi,

My wife and me are permanent residents of canada who are not residing in canada at present.We did our landing in june2010 and returned to our residing country there we had children. Now we want to take our children to canada
What would be the best procedure?
1. To cancel our status in this country and apply for TRP or TRV for children? In this case what is the guarantee that TRP or TRV is issued? if not issued what are the other options
2. One of them stay here and other go to canada and start procedures for sponsoring children?
3. Iam the principal applicant but can my wife go early and apply for children?

Above all which is the best option?
1. leaving children in our home country and either one or both of us go to canada and apply for sponsorship of children and permanent resident cards for them.
2. Taking children with us to canada and applying for sponsorship of children and PR cards for them?
which procedure is easy and less time consuming? what are the documents required for all the above procedures? Thanks for all the advises.

 

[samdxb]

hi..i have a similar problem..which country are u in?

 

[Leon]

If you can get a TRV or a TRP for your children, you can all go to Canada together and then apply to sponsor them. You can try that first. If you can't get a TRV or TRP, then at least one of you must go to Canada and start a sponsorship application for the children. It does not matter which one of you that is. You could both go if you want to if you have somebody who will take care of the children until they get their PR.

 

[ramkris]

Hi ,
Thanks for the reply.but what is the easiest and best procedure?. Which one gets PR for children in a less time.

If we dont get TRV or TRP ( To apply this we may have to cancel both of our work permits in this country)
and after that we dont have any option than to move to canada with out children. In this case if we send children to india how many months to get the PR for children?

Also Do we need to do a job to sponsor children?

 

[RobsLuv]

As permanent residents, at least one of you is required to be working and residing in Canada in order to be eligible to apply to sponsor the children. If you can get TRVs for the children, the whole family could come to Canada and you could apply to sponsor them from here - but there are no guarantees you'd get the TRVs. (Temporary Resident Permits (TRPs) are not applicable to your situation - they are issued to people who are inadmissible to Canada when there are compelling reasons to allow them to enter Canada anyway.) If you're looking for the fastest and easiest way - I'd say one of you (doesn't matter which one) needs to come to Canada, get settled and apply to sponsor the children while the other remains with the children. That doesn't preclude you from applying for TRVs for the children - but, in either case, there is no guarantee they'd be issued. The TRVs are temporary status documents, meaning the applicant(s) have to prove they only intend to remain in Canada temporarily - and that's difficult to do when you've applied for permanent status, so if that compromises your work permits where you are currently living, it's probably not the best course of action.

There are no minimum income requirements for dependent child applications - so you don't have to be making a certain amount of income in Canada, but you will need to have a job so that there won't be questions about your ability to support your family once they arrive in Canada. Spousal and dependent child applications can be refused under A39 if it appears the applicant (or accompanying family members) may have to apply for social assistance benefits after arriving in Canada.

"A foreign national is inadmissible for financial reasons if they are or will be unable or unwilling to support themself or any other person who is dependent on them, and have not satisfied an officer that adequate arrangements for care and support, other than those that involve social assistance, have been made." Considering the fact that children are not typically able to support themselves, I think it's probably pretty important for the sponsoring parent (whichever one of you that might be) to be able to show a sufficient income source so that there will be no doubt about your ability to financially support your children when they arrive in Canada.

 

[Leon]

(Temporary Resident Permits (TRPs) are not applicable to your situation - they are issued to people who are inadmissible to Canada when there are compelling reasons to allow them to enter Canada anyway.)

Some people who have been in the situation of needing to sponsor children would disagree with you here. TRP's have sometimes been issued to children after they were denied (deemed inadmissible to Canada) for a TRV and there were compelling reasons (PR parent wanting to sponsor them) to allow them to enter Canada anyway.

 

[RobsLuv]

Some people who have been in the situation of needing to sponsor children would disagree with you here. TRP's have sometimes been issued to children after they were denied (deemed inadmissible to Canada) for a TRV and there were compelling reasons (PR parent wanting to sponsor them) to allow them to enter Canada anyway.

Hi Leon - I just sent you a PM about this, but I will reiterate some of it here - since it's been brought up now.

The Operations Manual for Temporary Resident Permits (OP20) says the following in Sections 5.6 - 5.8:
5.6. Persons eligible for a temporary resident permit
Any person who is:
• inadmissible and seeking to enter Canada if an officer is of the opinion that it is justified in the circumstances [A24(1)];
• in Canada and is inadmissible, subject to a report or reportable for violation of the Act, or does not otherwise meet the requirements of the Act;
• not eligible for renewal of status.

5.7. Factors to consider when issuing or extending a permit
Officers should issue permits with caution and only in special circumstances. They should give careful consideration to the factors below before granting an initial permit for the maximum period of three years or before extending one for an additional two years.
• A temporary resident permit is a document that can carry privileges greater than those accorded to visitors, students, and workers with temporary resident status. It allows application inland for a work or study permit, and may give access to health or other social services.
• There is no discretion involved in granting permanent residence to persons who meet the requirements of the permit holder class. Persons who remain continuously in Canada on a permit for the specified time and do not become inadmissible on other grounds will be granted permanent residence.

5.8. Assessment of need and risk
An inadmissible person's need to enter or remain in Canada must be compelling and sufficient enough to overcome the health or safety risks to Canadian society. The degree of need is relative to the type of case. Even if the inadmissibility or violation is relatively minor, a permit may be unwarranted in the absence of compelling need. For example, the temporary resident visa program would lack integrity if temporary residents without visas obtained temporary resident permits at ports of entry. The following includes points and examples, which are not exhaustive, but illustrate the scope and spirit in which discretion to issue a permit is to be applied. Officers may issue a permit if:
• the need to enter or remain in Canada is compelling and sufficient to overcome the risk;
• the risk to Canadians or Canadian society is minimal and the need for the presence in Canada outweighs the risk. See sections 8, 9, 10, and 11 below for criteria to consider when making a decision about recommending a permit. Restoration of status is not an option.

It appears, throughout these instructions, that the purpose of granting a Temporary Resident Permit (TRP) is to allow the entry to Canada of someone who is otherwise inadmissible under the Act - usually for health or criminality reasons - when there are compelling humanitarian and compassionate grounds to allow them to enter (or stay in) Canada anyway. I do not believe the refusal of a visit visa (TRV) makes a person inadmissible to Canada - although someone who is inadmissible would certainly be refused a TRV, and that might be grounds for applying, then, for a TRP. But it's not an either/or situation.

So, to my understanding, the purpose of a TRP is to overcome the inadmissibility issue - not to be a means of "appeal" for the refusal of a TRV. It's possible that the dependent child of someone applying for PR in one of the independent classes could be found inadmissible for health reasons (and anybody - except a minor child - can be found inadmissible for criminal reasons) and in that case, a TRP might be appropriate - and that could be where the confusion comes in. But the dependent child of a Canadian PR would not likely be found inadmissible to Canada - such a child would be "excessive demand exempt", and a newborn could not be found criminally inadmissible - so the suggestion to apply for a TRP as an alternative to a TRV, or if a TRV has been denied simply because they can't satisfy an officer that the child meets the requirements of intending only a temporary stay, would be - at least to my understanding - inappropriate.

 

[Leon]

Read this post: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/sponsoring-my-16-month-old-daughter-t25591.0.html;msg143773#msg143773 from somebody who actually got a TRP to sponsor their child. She is not the only one because I remember some others having mentioned it as well.

 

[RobsLuv]

That's all well and good - but it does not refute what the processing manual says, and the person replying to that thread is not specific enough about their situation to be able to tell for sure that applying for a TRP is permissible simply as a result of a TRV being denied. The manual is pretty specific about TRPs being for people who are otherwise inadmissible to Canada, and even the link to the UK embassy that the person replying to that thread posted - giving instructions about applying for TRPs - is all about being inadmissible to Canada. I stand by what I said earlier - I don't think that a TRP application is appropriate to this thread. The OP's newborn child would not be inadmissible to Canada and, therefore, most likely would not be eligible to be be documented on a TRP.

 

[Leon]

If I were in that situation and a TRV had been denied, knowing that a TRP has worked for some people in that situation, I would definitely try applying for a TRP before splitting up the family for one parent to go to Canada to sponsor and the other waiting with the children.

 

[ramkris]

Thanks for all replies, well applying for TRP means both of us has to cancel our work permits to persuade visa officer to give TRP for children as both parents or PR holders are leaving every thing and going to canada.

In this situation if TRP is denied then we dont have any other option than to leave children in india. In this case whats the timeline to get PR of children?

Is there any minimal chance that childrens PR application may be rejected? providing we have ample money to support ourselves .

In second case if we get TRP and take children to canada? what is the time line to get PR for children?. what are the other conditions?

 

[Leon]

Whether in Canada or not, the children would be sponsored through Mississauga (44 days) and your country of nationality, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm/fc-spouses.asp The time given for the country is for 80% of applications so yours will probably be faster.

 

[rjessome]

Technically, the child is inadmissible because they do not have a PR visa and being under the care and control of the parents who are PRs and whose intent it is to now settle in Canada, the child's application for just a TRV gets refused.

But what you do has three parts in one. You apply for a TRV (knowing that you want a TRP) and include a cover letter requesting that a TRP be issued if the TRV is refused, give the reasons why the TRP is requested and asking for H&C considerations to overcome the inadmissibility.

RobsLuv is right that normally TRPs are issued to overcome criminal inadmissibility. However, go back to basics on this one and read the Act. S.24(1) of IRPA states: Temporary resident permit - A foreign national who, in the opinion of an officer, is inadmissible or does not meet the requirements of this Act becomes a temporary resident if an officer is of the opinion that it is justified in the circumstances and issues a temporary resident permit, which may be cancelled at any time.

S.25(1) outlines the Humanitarian and Compassionate Considerations which may be utilized to overcome almost any part of the Act, at the discretion (and with justification) of the "Minister" (IO or VO acts on behalf of the Minister).

Just make sure you clearly ASK for what you want. If you don't ask for the TRP, you won't get one. If you don't ASK for H&C considerations, you won't get those either. ASK for everything as it makes it much more difficult for a VO to refuse, assuming that everything else is in order.

 

[RobsLuv]

That makes more sense - thanks. My other concern is that, in applying for either TRV or TRP, the OP reports that he and his wife lose their status in their resident country and, if the children do not get temporary status in Canada, all (but the sponsor) would have to go back to India and wait out the PR approval. I still think - separation not withstanding - that it's probably "safer" in the long run (if they don't want to lose status in the resident country) for one parent to stay behind in the resident country with the children, and the other to come to Canada to file the sponsorship paperwork and prepare for their arrival. Just my opinion.