Soft Landing and Goods to Follow

[jordo]

I was thinking of renting the car on the Canadian side just before we sell our old car in the US.

Steve

Either way, double check with the rental company if you can cross the border with it.

 

[galore]

When my application is further along, I was considering applying for a visitor's visa to head over a couple months early so that I can start learning French in a more immersive environment, but this thread made me realize that this means I probably can't bring all of my belongings, right? Or is there some other thing I'm unaware of that would allow me to bring things over? I live close to the border and I don't have a huge amount of things, but enough that I'd probably rent a small uhaul come move time.

 

[Miraclejj]

When my application is further along, I was considering applying for a visitor's visa to head over a couple months early so that I can start learning French in a more immersive environment, but this thread made me realize that this means I probably can't bring all of my belongings, right? Or is there some other thing I'm unaware of that would allow me to bring things over? I live close to the border and I don't have a huge amount of things, but enough that I'd probably rent a small uhaul come move time.

If you bring your stuff more than a visitor supposed to have, like couple suit cases, you are risk yourself to be denied entry by Canadian Border Agency.

 

[KBH]

When my application is further along, I was considering applying for a visitor's visa to head over a couple months early so that I can start learning French in a more immersive environment, but this thread made me realize that this means I probably can't bring all of my belongings, right? Or is there some other thing I'm unaware of that would allow me to bring things over? I live close to the border and I don't have a huge amount of things, but enough that I'd probably rent a small uhaul come move time.

Yes, while the secondary concern is that you would need to pay tax on these belongings, the primary concern would be that CBSA would deny you entry as you appeared to be attempting to move to Canada rather than visiting. Most people in your situation get a storage unit on the US side till landing time (that's what I did)

 

[ArjonDJ]

I see. I should have asked those details. Many people who soft land turn around and wait outside Canada for a few months (especially those who need to fly in and actually have their PR card forwarded to them). Some people I've seen soft land and then stayed in their home country for over a year before coming to move permanently in Canada.

To avoid the confusion, is it an option to not soft land and simply land with the moving truck and B4 form ready all in one swoop?. (Assuming at that point you'd have everything in the truck and therefore no goods to follow)

Hi. I am a bit confused with the forms names. For the Personal Effects Accounting Document I have been compiling the forms BSF186 & BSF186A. Where can I find the form B4 and is this form essential? Thank you

 

[KBH]

Hi. I am a bit confused with the forms names. For the Personal Effects Accounting Document I have been compiling the forms BSF186 & BSF186A. Where can I find the form B4 and is this form essential? Thank you

Those are the correct forms. It used to be called the B4 but it was renamed. Everyone still says B4 because it’s easier to remember

 

[sach429]

KBH is correct that CIC does not make a distinction between soft or hard landing when becoming a PR, but CBSA does.

Here is all the nitty gritty details from CBSA.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html

Essentially what can be drawn from this document is:
When you move to Canada and you bring all your stuff, you will be declaring everything under Tariff 9807 known as Settler's Effects
Who are Considered Settlers?
1. For the purpose of tariff item No. 9807.00.00 of the Schedule to the Customs Tariff, settlers mean all individuals who enter Canada with the intention of establishing for the first time a residence for a period of not less than 12 months.

Variation Between Customs/Immigration Legislation
9. A person's status for customs purposes is not always the same as their status for immigration purposes.

10. As an example, a person can become a permanent resident without the intention of residing immediately in Canada. However, this person is not determined to be a settler as defined in the customs legislation, and be eligible for the provisions of tariff item No. 9807.00.00. In this case, since the person does not have any intention of remaining in Canada at that time, and will live outside Canada for an undetermined period of time, that person is considered a non-resident of Canada and not a settler, for the purpose of the Customs Tariff, and is eligible to temporarily import goods under tariff item No. 9803.00.00.

Here's a bit more that is easier to read than the actual tariff
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/mrc-drc-eng.html

When you soft land you still need to use a regular declaration card (if flying in) or verbally declare what you have if driving in as you normally would if you were visiting.

@KBH
Applying Tariff 9803 is where I think some people get confused. For PR purposes, 9803 affects INLAND PR applicants and not OUTLAND
An excerpt https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-1-1-eng.html

Application for Permanent Resident Status
66. Temporary residents, who intend to change their status with CIC, to work in Canada for more than 36 months or to apply for permanent resident status at an inland office, must report to the CBSA immediately in order to permanently account for their goods. The acquittal of the temporary status and the completion of a Form B4, Personal Effects Accounting Document will be required. For example, a temporary resident who makes application for permanent resident (landed immigrant) status or to work in Canada for more than 36 months is then classified as a "settler" for customs purposes, and is no longer eligible to import goods on a temporary basis as a temporary resident. Refer to Memorandum D2-2-1, Settlers' Effects – Tariff Item No. 9807.00.00, for information on the entitlements available to settlers.

Do you have a first hand experience in convincing a cbsa officer that you don’t need a form during soft landing and would provide one when settling permanently. I did a soft landing a week back and in spite of trying to convince the fact that I dont need a form because I am only staying for a week and not returning before an year, the option I was given was to go back to US and “land” later or provide the form then and there. I would still like to have an option to contest my case when I actually move permanently with stuff that was not mentioned in the list I provided now as goods to follow.

 

[Hurlabrick]

I looked into the whole 'soft landing' vs Goods to follow lists then 'landing as a settler.

I used a different forum where one of the contributors was a serving CBSA officer. He / she provided a link to the definitive instruction to CBSA officers. Bottom line is that you CAN 'soft land' and declare PR then 'land as a settler' on a later occasion and it is on this later occasion when you can present your Goods to follow list.

BUT, I was warned by others that many CBSA officers do not know their own rules and to have a printout of the CBSA instruction as regards 'landing as a settler' to hand. In the event, I went one further and had prepared 'Goods Accompanying / Goods to follow' list just in case. After a long-ish flight from the UK and landing jet-lagged, I of course got one of the officers who told me point blank 'no - you have landed as PR and this is your one and only chance for goods to follow'. I could have pulled the 'official instruction' print out, but I was so confident of my list and so tired I just gave him the lists and had them stamped.

I reported my experience on the other forum only to be told by the said CBSA officer on that forum that I was wrong and not telling the truth or they must have mis-understood me!!! To be fair, I landed at Ottawa, a small airport probably not used to a high volume of PR declarations, I am sure the situation is much better in Toronto or Vancouver!

Just be prepared that the CBSA officer may not even know their own rules!


EDITED:

Now found the official reference here:

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html

See the 'Variation Between Customs / Immigration Legislation' about 1/3rd of the way down the publication.

 

[sach429]

I looked into the whole 'soft landing' vs Goods to follow lists then 'landing as a settler.

I used a different forum where one of the contributors was a serving CBSA officer. He / she provided a link to the definitive instruction to CBSA officers. Bottom line is that you CAN 'soft land' and declare PR then 'land as a settler' on a later occasion and it is on this later occasion when you can present your Goods to follow list.

BUT, I was warned by others that many CBSA officers do not know their own rules and to have a printout of the CBSA instruction as regards 'landing as a settler' to hand. In the event, I went one further and had prepared 'Goods Accompanying / Goods to follow' list just in case. After a long-ish flight from the UK and landing jet-lagged, I of course got one of the officers who told me point blank 'no - you have landed as PR and this is your one and only chance for goods to follow'. I could have pulled the 'official instruction' print out, but I was so confident of my list and so tired I just gave him the lists and had them stamped.

I reported my experience on the other forum only to be told by the said CBSA officer on that forum that I was wrong and not telling the truth or they must have mis-understood me!!! To be fair, I landed at Ottawa, a small airport probably not used to a high volume of PR declarations, I am sure the situation is much better in Toronto or Vancouver!

Just be prepared that the CBSA officer may not even know their own rules!


EDITED:

Now found the official reference here:

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html

See the 'Variation Between Customs / Immigration Legislation' about 1/3rd of the way down the publication.

A very similar experience. Landed at Toronto City Airport aka Billy Bishop (YTZ); a very small airport and seemed like the cbsa officers aren't fully knowledgeable. Left with no option but to provide the list I was carrying as a backup, better than arguing and jeopardizing my landing after a 6 hr. delayed flight.

 

[Hurlabrick]

A very similar experience. Landed at Toronto City Airport aka Billy Bishop (YTZ); a very small airport and seemed like the cbsa officers aren't fully knowledgeable. Left with no option but to provide the list I was carrying as a backup, better than arguing and jeopardizing my landing after a 6 hr. delayed flight.

Oh wow!!! I didn't know they handled international flights! You must have been on a 'puddle hopper' from the US then!

I landed my own plane there a few years back (private pilot). A really lovely airport and impossible to land closer to Toronto.

Not surprised their agents knew nothing about this sort of stuff.

 

[Cubicrootofthee]

There's also this I found (below italics). I am not sure of how to interpret this. The intent to reside for less than 12 months could be interpreted as only for non-PR immigrants .
In any case, here's my question: if you don't declare Goods To Follow during your soft-landing, what proof can you show that you are entitled to declare it during a permanent move?

From the link above:
Persons, who are temporary residents of Canada for the purpose of tariff classification of goods, that are granted permanent resident status under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) from a Citizenship and Immigration Canada Inland Office, after their arrival in Canada, are settlers. For these individuals, only those goods which were owned, used and possessed by those persons, prior to the date of application for permanent resident status will be classified under tariff item No. 9807.00.00.

 

[Guy293]

alright so, if I get this right - I land in YYZ in October 2019, will be in canada for 2 weeks, then fly back to my home country.
the actual moving to canada will probably be May 2021.
which means I have to make the goods to follow list anyhow? will it expire?

 

[Rish_1506]

Hi,

I am doing a soft landing in Oct'19 and will return to India after a week. I am still confused if I need to submit goods to follow list at the time of 1st landing. I am not sure when I'd return as a settler - could be before a year or after 1-2 years as well.

Can anyone confirm if goods to follow list is to submitted in first landing itself even if it's a soft landing?>

Thanks

 

[MB8489]

Hi,

I am doing a soft landing in Oct'19 and will return to India after a week. I am still confused if I need to submit goods to follow list at the time of 1st landing. I am not sure when I'd return as a settler - could be before a year or after 1-2 years as well.

Can anyone confirm if goods to follow list is to submitted in first landing itself even if it's a soft landing?>

Thanks

I have very similar queries.. waiting fr clarification

Did u get any ??

 

[Rish_1506]

Hey, I have done my soft landing. The officer didn't ask me for any goods to accompany or follow list. When I checked with the officer, she told me that once I decide to settle for more than a year then I need to submit it at later stage when I come.

Hope this clarifies your queries.

Thanks

I have very similar queries.. waiting fr clarification

Did u get any ??