Sign petition: New citizenship rules affecting foreign workers

[ferna]

Some people argue that when you are here as a temp worker/student you are indeed a visitor and nothing more! But it is not how I(we) feel! Last time when I was going to my home country for a visit, I forgot to take my work permit with me. We were on our way to the airport, when I remembered and we had to turn back and take it! I am saying I was feeling like Canada is my home and totally forgot the fact that I need to prove I have a status as a foreign worker here!

 

[steveholt]

And you seriously think that RQ process and red flagging for temporary residence was fair and just? May I remind you that RQ process was introduced not so long ago to fight "fraud" but instead just created unreasonable backlog in Citizenship applications? You may want to read some more opinions about the RQ process and ways Tory's dealt with Citizenship applications in the last years. RQ can't find fraud. The only way to fight fraud is to have a cleat entry/exit record border system. Instead Tory's chose a way of collective punishment against the general population of citizenship seekers

The problem of course is that maintaining exit records costs money, whereas this approach allows them to "crack down on fraud" and "shortern processing times" relatively cheaply. The cracking down on fraud thing seems like a misnomer because whether you were on PR or temporary you have to prove you were in the country the same way no (sure temporary might get some extra scrutiny, but the requirements for proof are the same)? I wouldn't anticipate them adding staff to support the shorter processing times (hence the relative cheapness of this approach), as the processing forecasts are based on having less applications due to the stricter requirements.

As far as this petition goes the problem is that the vast majority of the people who sign it will be people who are either on PR or planning to be on PR in the near future. That is they are not citizens today, and not likely to be in the near future once these changes go through. MPs aren't elected to represent them, they are elected to represent people who are already citizens and who largely either don't care, or are in favour of hardening requirements (we can argue about *why* they might be in favour of that but it's largely by the by).

 

[sashali78]

The problem of course is that maintaining exit records costs money, whereas this approach allows them to "crack down on fraud" and "shortern processing times" relatively cheaply. The cracking down on fraud thing seems like a misnomer because whether you were on PR or temporary you have to prove you were in the country the same way no (sure temporary might get some extra scrutiny, but the requirements for proof are the same)? I wouldn't anticipate them adding staff to support the shorter processing times (hence the relative cheapness of this approach), as the processing forecasts are based on having less applications due to the stricter requirements.

As far as this petition goes the problem is that the vast majority of the people who sign it will be people who are either on PR or planning to be on PR in the near future. That is they are not citizens today, and not likely to be in the near future once these changes go through. MPs aren't elected to represent them, they are elected to represent people who are already citizens and who largely either don't care, or are in favour of hardening requirements (we can argue about *why* they might be in favour of that but it's largely by the by).

That is true and we DO need to think of ways to reach more Canadian population with our cause. However, I do believe MP's do see PR's as future electoral power and would treat it seriously. More news and next steps (action plan) to appear on the petition page soon.
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

 

[nettoyant]

I don't really understand what is all this fuss about. This is nothing new if you ever heard how the process went before. I followed threads about citizenship application process on this and other forums. If you are really curious- go read operational manuals for officers about citizenship. It says black on white there: people who use their time in Canada prior to PR should be red flagged during processing.

Oh this explains a lot! If this is really on the manual, it indicates that the government must know from statistic data that applicants that use their prior to PR time have more chances of cheating the system. It makes sense that the time prior to PR shouldn't be taken into consideration anymore.

Historically, we, legit applicants, always have to suffer from stricter rules because of those who cheat the system.

It might even be better on the long run! Time will tell.

 

[LPS]

I don't really understand what is all this fuss about. This is nothing new if you ever heard how the process went before. I followed threads about citizenship application process on this and other forums. If you are really curious- go read operational manuals for officers about citizenship. It says black on white there: people who use their time in Canada prior to PR should be red flagged during processing. And this was the exact thing officers were following for previous years. It's known that people who used their "half-time" got RQ more often than others, and many opted for waiting a year longer but saving 2 on processing. What I am saying is, if they will sign this bill, they will prove what they were doing before, nothing more.

Exactly. There was already a principle that time spent as a temporary resident has significantly less value. It just now worth even less.

Oh this explains a lot! If this is really on the manual, it indicates that the government must know from statistic data that applicants that use their prior to PR time have more chances of cheating the system. It makes sense that the time prior to PR shouldn't be taken into consideration anymore.

Historically, we, legit applicants, always have to suffer from stricter rules because of those who cheat the system.

The new law is not just about targeting "cheaters" (meaning, those who break the rules). It is also an affirmation about the kind of citizen that Canada wants. For better or worse, Canadians are wary of so-called 'passports of convenience' and want prospective citizens to establish and maintain strong ties to the community. Therefore it is entirely fair that the rules apply equally to everyone.

Whether the measures will have any real effect on processing times, particularly the RQ bottleneck - that's another matter.

It was mentioned in another thread that naturalized citizens (i.e. not born here) are actually more likely to support stricter citizenship rules - so perhaps if you want to lobby MPs, it's the ones who were born and raised here that you need to talk to!

 

[sashali78]

There will be always a few who disagree and/or hold different opinions. However, we have reached over 1000 signatures in the first 48h!
I have also published the proposed action plan on the petition page, all who signed the petition should receive the update shortly:
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

 

[hamad0313]

if somebody is sitting at home on welfare it will not bother him to wait for extra year or two but for professionals who wants to progress in their career, delays of few months make a lots of difference. Do you have any idea how many jobs screen you based on your status in Canada????? even all the big oil companies have started following public sector criteria i.e first they prefer citizens then PR then TFW; last year I had missed two great opportunities just becoz my file was pending with CPP Ottawa;

I don't really understand what is all this fuss about. This is nothing new if you ever heard how the process went before. I followed threads about citizenship application process on this and other forums. If you are really curious- go read operational manuals for officers about citizenship. It says black on white there: people who use their time in Canada prior to PR should be red flagged during processing. And this was the exact thing officers were following for previous years. It's known that people who used their "half-time" got RQ more often than others, and many opted for waiting a year longer but saving 2 on processing. What I am saying is, if they will sign this bill, they will prove what they were doing before, nothing more.

Another thing I want to point out. Let's remember that we are all strangers here. We came to this country and we want to stay here, nobody enforces us. We will have to follow the rules of the game we decided to play. It's Canada right to decide how they process their citizens. We have to be grateful to have a chance to live here and pay our taxes here, not where we came from. hamad0313, What kind of gratitude you are talking about? How does it "diminish all hard work all taxes and all those ties which you have developed"? What makes your life so miserable if you have to wait another year as PR? Have you ever though how many people in the world would like to be on your place now without any complaints?

Not that I am happy with these changes, I have been here for 3 years and still waiting for PR, but I respect the reality and I don't see the point of ranting about this issue. The ways people get their PR would be much hotter and rewarding topic for rant.

 

[sashali78]

Oh this explains a lot! If this is really on the manual, it indicates that the government must know from statistic data that applicants that use their prior to PR time have more chances of cheating the system. It makes sense that the time prior to PR shouldn't be taken into consideration anymore.
It might even be better on the long run! Time will tell.

I don't know where did you take your assumptions from. Following your logic - government is always right and have good reasons to pass any decision without being doubted or challenged by the public (Follow the leader, mmm-aeeeee ... )

 

[thisisauser]

Oh this explains a lot! If this is really on the manual, it indicates that the government must know from statistic data that applicants that use their prior to PR time have more chances of cheating the system. It makes sense that the time prior to PR shouldn't be taken into consideration anymore.

Historically, we, legit applicants, always have to suffer from stricter rules because of those who cheat the system.

It might even be better on the long run! Time will tell.

If that were true (and statistically significant) I assure you without a shred of doubt that the proposal would have made the relevant statistics public.

 

[steveholt]

If that were true (and statistically significant) I assure you without a shred of doubt that the proposal would have made the relevant statistics public.

Indeed. Obtaining accurate statistics/estimates for something like this is also extremely difficult because the most interesting number for them is not how many people are cheating and are getting caught (that's after all easy enough to determine and indication of where CIC are succeeding in their task), but how many are cheating and *not* getting caught.

 

[hamad0313]

so when are you planning to forward this to MPs and CIC as I read somewhere that the bill is already tabled last thursday,

 

[sashali78]

so when are you planning to forward this to MPs and CIC as I read somewhere that the bill is already tabled last thursday,

I have published the proposed action plan on the petition news page, all who signed the petition should have received the update in email
http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

In general, I and volunteers who can sign up using FightTheBillC24@yahoo.ca are planning to reach out to multiple MP's and media contacts when we reach 5000 signatures.

 

[torontosm]

Do you have any idea how many jobs screen you based on your status in Canada????? even all the big oil companies have started following public sector criteria i.e first they prefer citizens then PR then TFW; last year I had missed two great opportunities just becoz my file was pending with CPP Ottawa;

If that is really true, then I suggest you file a complaint for discrimination. It is not legal for any company to deny you a job simply because you are a PR vs. a citizen, unless of course it is a matter of national security or something similar. Here is a link from OHRC and Clause (i) covers this point:

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/iii-principles-and-concepts/3-grounds-discrimination-definitions-and-scope-protection

 

[Jalex23]

plz sign the petition, I noticed there are nearly 350 views of this thread but only 25 has signed yet

I will tell you why I won't sign it.

Canadians (people who at least have Canadian passports) know what is best for their country. My duty as an immigrant is to respect those rules.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the change, but I have no right tell Canadians how to run their country. If I think this is too unfair or discriminatory I can go back home. Easy.

 

[ferna]

I will tell you why I won't sign it.

Canadians (people who at least have Canadian passports) know what is best for their country. My duty as an immigrant is to respect those rules.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the change, but I have no right tell Canadians how to run their country. If I think this is too unfair or discriminatory I can go back home. Easy.

But we won't go back home and we'll try our best to change what we believe is unfair. Easy? No! Worth it? BIG YES!